design

[Head]

1. Jungling is too safe, too rewarding, and too time-consuming to counter.
2. Timesplitter deals too much damage, when it did 100 damage it was still a good item and only costed 1000 less.
3. DPS ADC are becoming burst-centric agility mages. Their abilities don't accentuate or facilitate landing their attacks, they eclipse them.
4. Overpowered champs; Shadow, Virgil, Brawler, Egon, Avenger, Queen.
5. Shadow in the jungle is too easy to get to mid-late game. His ult gives slow immunity, preventing most counters. Ghosting garb is poor item design.
6. Virgil. Why does Virgil have a silence on top of energy leech? His damage alone, while being very safe, always made him relevant.
7. Egon. Why does his W do so much damage while also not a skillshot/also soft cc/on demand shield? He is almost item independent, so he can build whatever he wants and still do so much damage. W has max HP scaling so it scales throughout game progression, so why does Egon have the need to do so much damage at all stages of game?
8. Brawler too much range on E. Too much range on E = too much range on Q.
9.  Avenger ultimate is too strong.
10. Queen is safe pick while too dominant in lane. Nearly always outtrades everyone because early game stats are strong from creep attack speed and baneling damage, and then can heal herself..

 

I will explain if you have questions

 

[MOTHER]

15 minutes ago, Head said:

DPS ADC are becoming burst-centric agility mages. Their abilities don't accentuate or facilitate landing their attacks, they eclipse them.

I will need examples please.

[Head]

1 hour ago, MOTHER said:

I will need examples please.

Traditional DPS are Nova, Darpa, Warfield, Avenger, Huntress

Besides Nova and Huntress, these two have varying playstyles besides providing steady stream of damage output. Nova's ult lowers movespeed for huge range/damage so crit's can burst. Huntress can be played as int caster.

Darpa has a 200% weapon damage scaling auto and his jump now provides short term steroid. I believe he is designed to jump in like an assassin, applies huge burst to high priority target then jumps out

Warfield Q, W, R; his R was buffed for burst (it already had good scaling with %max health true damage debuff) instead of his passive, "Endless Barrage" which could have been given some actual scaling.

Avenger is probably the worst offender, it is literally an AGI Cyprus. A spammable Q poke, the W + Passive lets damage amplification stack full much more quickly to boost next damage tick, E is mobility and also more burst, and the R is a true damage, instant cast, invisible, AOE.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Head

[MOTHER]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Crackling.

I've noted several of the things you raised already, and they are being addressed in 2.45.

A few thoughts:

- Avenger is meant to be bursty (Think Queen of Pain from DotA). If he needs to be toned down, that's another thing.

- I think a lot of the burst potential of AGI heroes has been brought on by items more so than their kits. Nova and Darpa can be played as hit and run assassins or they can be played as pure dps. Same is true for Huntress. w

- The buff to Warfield's R was meant to make him more attractive as a dps carry when compared some of the heroes you mentioned. We could go a different route with him and compensate a new lack of burst in other ways.


 

[MOTHER]

11 hours ago, Head said:

• Jungling is too safe, too rewarding, and too time-consuming to counter.
• Timesplitter deals too much damage, when it did 100 damage it was still a good item and only costed 1000 less.
• DPS ADC are becoming burst-centric agility mages. Their abilities don't accentuate or facilitate landing their attacks, they eclipse them.
• Overpowered champs; Shadow, Virgil, Brawler, Egon, Avenger, Queen.
• Shadow in the jungle is too easy to get to mid-late game. His ult gives slow immunity, preventing most counters. Ghosting garb is poor item design.
• Virgil. Why does Virgil have a silence on top of energy leech? His damage alone, while being very safe, always made him relevant.
• Egon. Why does his W do so much damage while also not a skillshot/also soft cc/on demand shield? He is almost item independent, so he can build whatever he wants and still do so much damage. W has max HP scaling so it scales throughout game progression, so why does Egon have the need to do so much damage at all stages of game?
• Brawler too much range on E. Too much range on E = too much range on Q.
•  Avenger ultimate is too strong.
• Queen is safe pick while too dominant in lane. Nearly always outtrades everyone because early game stats are strong from creep attack speed and baneling damage, and then can heal herself..

1- Agreed on too safe and too time-consuming to counter in the current climate.

2- Agreed.

3- See above post.

4- Noted.

5- Vergil is meant to be an agi anti-mage/caster carry. I think an issue with him right now is his mobility and a certain bug that keeps rearing its ugly head allowing him to traverse unintended terrain.

6- Fair point.

7- Fair.

8- See above post.

9- Agreed.


With all this mind, 2.45 is going to bring a lot of changes, positive, so I won't be heavy handed with any nerfs until we see things through in the beta phase.

[Head]

I'll remind myself that AOS doesn't need to be like Lol; tbh it isn't that pressing of a matter if DPS can all have burst abilities and playstyles.

 

The problem I have with Virgil is that on top of doing so much damage, players have no counterplay if they get hit by his ultimate. Being hit is bad enough, being silenced afterward makes it one-sided unless parallax or external help. Then there is energy leech, which is kind of synonymous to silence in the first place.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Head

[Bile]

Great post that I think highlights some of the biggest issues in the current meta. Egon takes most heroes in his lane to 1/2hp with 1 ability for the first 20 minutes or so of the game. I think it was Manling or maybe someone else but they suggested just increasing hp 10-20% for all heroes across the board so that theres more laning and chances for heroes to keep up with others that pressure or bully in the early game. 

[MOTHER]

26 minutes ago, Bile said:

so that theres more laning and chances for heroes to keep up with others that pressure or bully in the early game. 

Melange.

[Bile]

15 minutes ago, MOTHER said:

Melange.

1 hit and it stops :x not rlly an effective way if 1 ability that silences u takes 1/2 ur hp away

[MOTHER]

It's not meant for combat.

You're suggesting to increase every hero's base health by 10-20% to keep up with early game laning pressure. There is an item that can give you almost full health during laning in under 10 seconds. All it requires from the player is proper timing.