Bigger terrain doesn't make sense

[thomulf]

I just don't see the logic of the larger terrain... speed items/talents, ward game, and even transport were already quite valuable. It is just painful to make them 100% required. Same goes for team coordination. On the other hand, poor coordination was already crippling and backdooring was (as always) a problem- now these issues are just glaring. I think heroes need a passive transport feature or transport items need a significant boost, or the effectiveness of fountains needs to be greatly increased. I mean buying items is just shooting yourself in the foot a lot of the time with the amount of xp you miss. In addition you have much less contact with enemy heroes... there are fewer teamfights and ganks because the map is so large and it's hard to travel between the lanes, it's just a 100% jungle and lane farming game in early and mid stages which seems to me the opposite of what the terrain should promote.

[AceSpade]

8 minutes ago, thomulf said:

I just don't see the logic of the larger terrain... speed items/talents, ward game, and even transport were already quite valuable. It is just painful to make them 100% required. Same goes for team coordination. On the other hand, poor coordination was already crippling and backdooring was (as always) a problem- now these issues are just glaring. I think heroes need a passive transport feature or transport items need a significant boost, or the effectiveness of fountains needs to be greatly increased. I mean buying items is just shooting yourself in the foot a lot of the time with the amount of xp you miss. In addition you have much less contact with enemy heroes... there are fewer teamfights and ganks because the map is so large and it's hard to travel between the lanes, it's just a 100% jungle and lane farming game in early and mid stages which seems to me the opposite of what the terrain should promote.

the idea is

that ppl must learn how to  coordinate

community suffer of having no coordination that they cant even not snowball penthos or gurntyy    - that bad

better make map that ppl just must coordinate good  to make the reason to them to learn

community must play better cause now we suck

[MOTHER]

Take into consideration the fact that people are not yet familiar with the terrain completely and this may be the reason you think people are less mobile. Once the dust has settled, I think people will develop new habits and coordinate better simply because the map demands it from the players who want to win. It hasn't been even a week yet. People played the previous map far much longer to compare just yet.

Generally speaking though, I'd say 2 members of the team should invest in the transport talent.

We will try to reintroduce a new transport-like consumable next patch though to see how players and the map handle it. 

[AceSpade]

also I would like some new things :

1. make in after game tables  graphs like    'healed','warded,'towers killed'

2. would be cool to help with wards at very start like  everyone get 1 wards for free or smth like this, cause for supports it isn't good to take 3 green talents ( ok about ms,but energy,energy regen and cd not needed cause they are in every support item)  so 200 bonus minerals to supports not so cool (my opinion) cause I prefer defence talents

3. wanna mooooooore jungle items, moooree

[MOTHER]

1- Woul love that.

2- The game can't do the work for you honestly. People want to win but nobody wants to support.

3- Yes. Yes.

[axtrimaitex]

Uhm, i think that one of the nice things of AOS was the map. The new map is way too big, less funny to play and just does not feel right. I think you guys should focus on change the things that make AOS a Bad MOBA instead changing the map, that in my opinion was one of the fortitudes of this nice game. Maybe bring back the old map is a good idea. I think this is the feeling of a lot of the old players.

Edited June 28, 2017 by axtrimaitex

[MOTHER]

It hasn't even been a week as I said, keep playing. We're moving forward with this and we need you to help make it better. But make no mistake, we are moving forward with this. :)

[axtrimaitex]

Also, we all know that our comunity is very small(around 500 players), and is geting smaller. And even though the idea of keep making change to improve the game is nice, sometimes just does not work. It's important to recognize when the changes does not work, and more important in this case because changing the map is just like change the game. In my opinion if this problem is not fixed, could mean the end of AOS. A lot of players just will stop playing. And as i posted, the map is just not fun anymore. 

 

[MOTHER]

You're kinda being melodramatic now. As I said, it's been less than a week,  give it time much like how we took the time to make it. Have patience and a little faith in the dev team. The new map isn't the end, it is just the beginning. 

[AceSpade]

1 hour ago, axtrimaitex said:

Also, we all know that our comunity is very small(around 500 players), and is geting smaller. And even though the idea of keep making change to improve the game is nice, sometimes just does not work. It's important to recognize when the changes does not work, and more important in this case because changing the map is just like change the game. In my opinion if this problem is not fixed, could mean the end of AOS. A lot of players just will stop playing. And as i posted, the map is just not fun anymore. 

 

ok so tell why do you think that this map is not  fun and why old one is, give some real argument pls

 

[axtrimaitex]

I guess is a set of stuffs. The size mainly, but also the new structure of the map(new paths, new neutrals location, etc.), i think the map needs a lot of work to be enjoyable, maybe years of work, and i don't think we(as comunity) have years to spend trying to fix a map, in the meanwhile the players will stop playing the game and AOS could die. And i don't think i'm melodramatic, i just want to be clear about the risks you are taking with new map. I never post at least i have something real to say and i think i have some authority to say this becouse i have been playing this for years and i post this to improve the game, that my intention.

[AceSpade]

3 minutes ago, axtrimaitex said:

I guess is a set of stuffs. The size mainly, but also the new structure of the map(new paths, new neutrals location, etc.), i think the map needs a lot of work to be enjoyable, maybe years of work, and i don't think we(as comunity) have years to spend trying to fix a map, in the meanwhile the players will stop playing the game and AOS could die. And i don't think i'm melodramatic, i just want to be clear about the risks you are taking with new map. I never post at least i have something real to say and i think i have some authority to say this becouse i have been playing this for years and i post this to improve the game, that my intention.

Actually , you told no 1 argument there    kek

[MOTHER]

24 minutes ago, axtrimaitex said:

I guess is a set of stuffs. The size mainly, but also the new structure of the map(new paths, new neutrals location, etc.), i think the map needs a lot of work to be enjoyable, maybe years of work, and i don't think we(as comunity) have years to spend trying to fix a map, in the meanwhile the players will stop playing the game and AOS could die. And i don't think i'm melodramatic, i just want to be clear about the risks you are taking with new map. I never post at least i have something real to say and i think i have some authority to say this becouse i have been playing this for years and i post this to improve the game, that my intention.

I'm fully aware of the 'risks' you speak of, but I'm also confident in our ability to make the new map not only as good as its predecessors, but better in every way imaginable. If we weren't, we wouldn't have gone ahead with this undertaking. Many people love the new map, many others are understandably more hesitant with their feelings but see the potential. Hopefully, you're with us for the ride. Cheers for your post. 

[TerraNova]

i quit

[Destroyer]

The distance just feels to be on the high side when moving around the map. I'm mainly thinking of how much ground there is between towers. I think making mid lane straight would be a very good thing to do, this twisty path just feels wrong. Maybe make base speed scale closer to the base or have some buff for each tower?

I think my biggest problem is it is hard to see different elevations. They need to be more distinct.

Also I've been hearing more complaints about lag. 

[MOTHER]

3 hours ago, Destroyer said:

I think my biggest problem is it is hard to see different elevations. They need to be more distinct.

I heard you on that one during our game together and have already reframed any potentially ambiguous looking cliffs in the next patch. Now pathable ramps stand out better next to adjacent cliffs. You can see the difference in the Aeon of Storms 7 Beta if you have time, and tell me if there is a specific area that is still problematic for you.

There isn't much I can do about lag, because it is not caused by the map. Drops in FPS can be caused by the map but consider that:

AoS 2015 had more objects on the map than AoS 2016 which had more objects on the map than AoS 2017 (We're talking of a difference of several hundred).

AoS 2016 had more objects on your screen on average at any given time (about 80-100 and sometimes close to 200) than current AoS. FPS drops tend to be caused when you have too much going on on screen for your graphics card to handle. There is less of that in current AoS.

The doodads chosen for the new map were selected on the criteria that they are as small as possible in kb size (trees for example are less than almost 1/4 the size of the trees used in AoS 2016). There is also less variety of objects on the map so this lends itself to better fps than the previous map.

I think lag and fps drops have plagued AoS for years, and now with the change of map people have a new scapegoat to pin it on. Rationally speaking, the new map shouldn't be causing fps drops. It has less than 2.4k objects on the map (a number that will likely go down with every patch just like last year's map). RoA for example had something in the range of 4k. Blizzard Campaign missions tend to have 4.5-5.5k objects per map - not to mention the hundreds of units produced by each faction.

 

[Destroyer]

I personally haven't noticed much different performance, just more people complaining about lag. 

[AceSpade]

28 minutes ago, Destroyer said:

I personally haven't noticed much different performance, just more people complaining about lag. 

funny is that they think that it is map lagging,but naturally smb lag cause conntection or bad pc and share this lag with other players

if we will get a game where everybody has normal machine and internet then there will no lag

 

[Destroyer]

I have a pretty decent pc and I will lag late game, Aos IS a laggy game.

[ZERATUL]

On 28.6.2017. at 7:32 PM, TerraNova said:

i quit

I also quit.

[Worker]

Lol how much would it cost me to get the old map going 2

 

 

[MOTHER]

31 minutes ago, Worker said:

Lol how much would it cost me to get the old map going 2

 

 

Yeah. no. We don't do this for money. 

It would be helpful if you come to terms with the new reality quickly and help us make it better with constructive criticism. The new patch significantly improved the pacing of action in the game, thanks in large part to people who playtest with us everyday and give us their feedback and suggestions. So be realistic guys, we didn't spend 3 months on this update so that you can declare it shap in 3 days. Ultimately though, I can't force you to enjoy the game even though we do this to have fun with each other.