The Future of Mobility in AoS

[MOTHER]

First let's get this out of the way, this discussion and subsequent set of suggestions are intended for the upcoming map which is notably larger than current AoS. This variation in size will hinder quick travel across the map, favoring less ganking and reactive measures, and possibly more ratting.

 

So the topic of mobility must inevitably be discussed because I can already tell that it will be an issue.

 

My recommended solution to help aid the transition to the new map to is 3 fold:

 

1- (Re)Introduce 'Warp Fragments'. Single use 1-charge consumables that cost 100-150 with a 90 second shared cooldown. Allows you to teleport to allied structures only.

 

2- Introduce a new fundamental movement speed item that will become THE basis for all movement speed items in the game. This item will be cheap, cost effective, and will be integrated in all the major movement speed items. The MS item equivalent of Graviton Booster, Bloodletter, Temporal Plating, Sapphire Mox, etc.

 

3- Integrate the new fundamental movement speed into old items as a new component, and create more items that build from it.

 

Example of a fundamental MS item:

 

New item: Accelerator (400)

 

Function: Base Movement Speed item

 

Grants 5% movement speed

 

Unique: Travel 1 - Grants an additional 5% Movement speed when you have not taken damage from enemy heroes or towers in the last 15 seconds.

 

-----

 

Example of a revised items

 

Revised item: Xel'Naga Cuirass (1800)

 

Components: Neosteel Vestments, Nullifier, Accelerator.

 

Grants 5% movement speed, Spell and Physical Armor

 

Unique: Travel 2 - Grants an additional 10% Movement speed when you have not taken damage from enemy heroes or towers in the last 15 seconds.

 

Lion's Bane (3650)

 

Components: Accelerator, Cybernetic Implants, Flesh Hammer

 

Grants 5% movement speed, STR, and CDR

 

Unique: Roam 2 - Grants an additional 15% Movement (total 20%) if within 30u units of a Allied Structures.

 

 

Other New items to consider:

 

New Item: Hyper Accelerator (1250)

 

Components: Accelerator, Neosteel Vestments, Cell Regenerator.

 

Function: Support/Jungle item

 

Grants 5% Movement Speed, Armor, and +3 Health Regeneration.

 

Unique: Roam 1 - Grants an additional 15% Movement (total 20%) and an additional 7 Health regeneration (total 10) when you haven't attacked or been attacked in the last 10 seconds. Casting spells does not break the unique passive.

 

New Item: Rift Generator Alpha (3000)

 

Components: Xel'Naga Cuirass

 

Grants 10% Movement Speed, Additional Spell and Physical Armor

 

Unique (Passive): Travel 3 - Grants an additional 15% Movement speed (Total 25%) when you have not taken damage from enemy heroes or towers in the last 15 seconds.

 

Unique (Active): Transport 1 - Teleport to allied structures. 90 second cooldown (shared with Warp Fragment)

 

New Item: Rift Generator Beta (4200)

 

Components: Xel'Naga Cuirass

 

Grants 10% Movement Speed, Additional Spell and Physical Armor

 

Unique (Passive): Travel 3 - Grants an additional 15% Movement speed (Total 25%) when you have not taken damage from enemy heroes or towers in the last 15 seconds.

 

Unique (Active): Transport 2 - Teleport to allied structures, units, and heroes. 90 second cooldown (shared with Warp Fragment)

 

 

Other potential mobility options that could use looking into:

• All items that use Xel'Naga Cuirass as a component get updated accordingly.
  
• Accelerator becoming a component in items that do not rely on Xel'Naga Cuirass, such as Gravity's Edge, Arcbound, and Lion's Bane, and they too have their stats updated accordingly
  
• Some talent revision may be in order.
  

----

 

These are just suggestions of course, but I think it's important to discuss the matter further before we cross this bridge.

[Jaysi]

So Ecko got rid of boots because they were an item everyone needed and they simply limited your end build to 5 items. What are your thoughts on that?

[Ignaris]

Well my thoughts on that would be to have boots that build into items with other primary purposes but still give movement speed. Like for instance Shinobi gives a large movement speed buff but isn't just a movement speed item.

[MOTHER]

So Ecko got rid of boots because they were an item everyone needed and they simply limited your end build to 5 items. What are your thoughts on that?

 

I'm not introducing boots though. I'm suggesting a fundamental MS component that builds into several items, not all of them "boots". Silver Soul and Lion's Bane are not boots. Neither is Gravity's Edge. But adding a 'boots-like' item as one of their components would make sense. Ever wonder where is Gravity getting's its MS? or Xel'Naga Cuirass? Well now we could have an answer in the form of "Accelerator".

 

The only true mobility compound items I suggested are Tier 3 and Tier 4 items (Rift Generator Alpha and Beta). Those items are literally "give up 1 slot of your inventory to get best mobility item in the game" situations. It should be an option on the table, especially for those that don't have mobility talents like transport, or they can't afford to give a 6th slot to warp fragments late game.

 

Also heroes should have options, give up speed for damage? Sacrifice health for speed? These variation in choices, combined with talents and all the different kinds of heroes give players so much potential decision making, ergo control over their fate. It's a great feeling IMO.

 

Again, I am not suggesting for different kinds of boots, I am suggesting 1 boot-like tier 0 basic item that can be the basis for MS bonuses in many different items.

 

You also must consider that Ekco's decision to remove "boots" was based on the current map size. I think very soon you will understand why I made this topic. :)

[SayMyName]

Movespeed items are not solution.

 

Movespeed affects many diffrent aspects in the game, including in major : fighting, ganking, teamfights, overall speed of game and again in major farming speed.

To accelerate farm you need a) higher dmg b) more aoe dmg c) higher mobility

 

Increasing movespeed you increase jungling. I wont even talk about other aspects.

 

 

For me it looks like you are trying to take care of stuff you dont understand by high degree. No offense.

Obviously is good and proper you write your thoughts and ask for opinion.

 

 

As i said before and wrote. Thing about aos is that there are low to non-existent proper polished tp mechanics

 

 

Increasing speed by a little maybe not a bad thing. Its about balance. But too high speed makes game not enjoyable and frustrating.

Edited March 19, 2017 by SayMyName

[MOTHER]

Yeah, no offense but I don't you think understood what I am talking about. Try reading again in the context it was meant to be read in (new map).

 

I also did not really suggest an increase in movespeed, i suggested an increase in movespeed and mobility OPTIONS.

[Jaysi]

I feel like it will be challenging to balance. Let's just introduce mounts instead :)

[MOTHER]

I think the only hero that has a proper mount animation and model is Nova.

[MOTHER]

Regarding the balance though, it wont be easy, but it would not be that hard either. I mean it's not rocket science. From my point of view, it's important to take advantage of the new size of the map rather see it as an obstacle.

 

You don't want the map size to hinder the fun engagements and frequency of those that AoS gives players. You also absolutely dont want to increase gametime. New variations of mobility is a good start to exploring solutions.

[Head]

Let's just introduce mounts instead :)

 

don't ever say this again

[Ignaris]

Until the map is finished and we can walk around on it I think it will be hard to get a good feel for what sort of movement speed buff is required. Because, I admit, it is difficult to get a good feel for the size of the map based on pictures.

[MOTHER]

If you played Rise of Amon before by Wrath and Whale, you could grasp its size relatively. If not, I will push hard for something playable for this upcoming weekend. As I said, the two most important factors I need to monitor is game-time and frequency of team engagements.

 

From the perspective of the designer myself, I find it very improbable that the new map size will not increase game time and decrease frequency of team fights without some modifications to hero tools and options. The last thing I want is for my design choices to slow down the game or make it more boring.

[Aphonia]

For me it looks like you are trying to take care of stuff you dont understand by high degree. No offense.

Obviously is good and proper you write your thoughts and ask for opinion.

 

Who gave you the god given right to start dismissing others opinions without giving sufficient reasoning?

 

To me movement speed seems a reasonable suggestion, but not one I personally agree with. Would rather see base speed increase for heroes in a larger map.

[Jaysi]

 

 

Who gave you the god given right to start dismissing others opinions without giving sufficient reasoning?

 

Oh please don't ask SayMyName for reasoning... Essay incoming.

[Aphonia]

Oh please don't ask SayMyName for reasoning... Essay incoming.

 

We need some life on this forum with nostalgia. Bring it SMN.

[MOTHER]

 

 

To me movement speed seems a reasonable suggestion, but not one I personally agree with. Would rather see base speed increase for heroes in a larger map.

 

This could work if it was a base speed increase for all heroes of around 15% (not the "game speed" which is already ridiculously fast). I like this as it's a simple and elegant solution, but still would like to see more variety in support/jungle/roaming items.

[BlackXioN]

Oh god grunty with more movement speed...

[MOTHER]

Oh god grunty with more movement speed...

 

Not really, not of the suggestions really break the ms ceiling that exists in the gaming, and most of the unique passives override one another. Furthermore, Grunty is unlikely to remain the same I think.

[SayMyName]

Who gave you the god given right to start dismissing others opinions without giving sufficient reasoning?

 

To me movement speed seems a reasonable suggestion, but not one I personally agree with. Would rather see base speed increase for heroes in a larger map.

 

I don't know who given me the right to make my opinions on forum? I don't know. Maybe because my mom born me and IT IS A FORUM?

I made plenty of arguments. You on the other hand just bash me for no reason, basically saying "don't write here on this forum" which for me is a warning worthy and im surprised no mod even responded/act. Its just ridiciulous.

Adding to the level of hyprocriticism in your sentence i would not even speak about.

 

 

Yeah, no offense but I don't you think understood what I am talking about. Try reading again in the context it was meant to be read in (new map).

 

I also did not really suggest an increase in movespeed, i suggested an increase in movespeed and mobility OPTIONS.

 

I read your post and understood what is wrote there. But it makes no sense whatssoever. Maybe you just didn't wrote it properly and described what you want to do and this can be a problem.

 

Because you wrote you want to:

a) increase map size to hinder mobility, increase ratting, less reactive measures

b) increase mobility, introduce tps (you say options but it is the same, items- esp when said cheap cost effective, teleports whatever), not decrease amount of teamfights and not slow down the game (in another post).

 

Your posts just deny each other.

 

I explain.

 

If it comes to movespeed items they either most of time are:

a) good (overall item is good) and are a must or almost a must buy (esp on big map)

b) weak (too low stats) almost never bought

 

its very hard to balance it.

 

If you increase map size and increase movespeed (taking aside tower spots, jungle camp spots etc etc just talking about this two aspects) you basically just make everything faster in terms of "feeling of gameplay" - reaction time, respond human time (which many people were against, not all , but lets say majority).

 

 

Ecko did get rid of boots (i think it was good move)

and removed teleports (several cons and pros, makes game diffrent by a huge margin)

 

If you introduce teleports (and with strong towers) it becomes almost impossible to gank heroes near towers (if enemy team actually have proper team, awarness players). To offset that dota have increased cooldowns (better said teleport spawn) for every next tp near that building, so multiple heroes cant insta tp, react. There is huge correletion to distance, space between towers (allies towers, and ally vs enemy towers) to consider.

 

Btw. shrines in dota are op.

 

 

As it comes to increase ratting, not decrease teamfights i don't even know how to write it. Cause its super straight forward.

its either more rattting or more teamfights. More teamfights = less ratting, more ratting = less teamfights. Thats how it works.

 

There are obviously more stuff to talk about but i will just cut it. Try to make as short and simple as possible

Edited March 30, 2017 by SayMyName

[MOTHER]

I am not suggesting the addition of boots though. I am suggesting the addition of a little more variety items that have MS and these MS stats rarely if ever stack with each other because they are "uniques.

 

For Warp Fragments, the channel time could increase based on the distance you want to travel. The cooldowns are shared with other fragments and other items/talents that offer teleports.

 

Our Shrines in the context of AoS won't be the same as DotA's the idea is still early and will likely evolve into something uniquely ours.

 

The goal of this thread is to make teamfights more frequent on the new map and avoid the new size of the map from encouraging ratting or discouraging teamfights.

 

For now SMN, I can tell you to at least participate in the upcoming beta tests and share your opinion afterwards. :)

[SayMyName]

In dota shrines are op cause they just op - mostly they are on highground and give too high regen to fight it off. Its almost like fighting base.

 

I like the idea of being something unique.

 

 

As for playing i didnt saw anybody on fl for years. Never see anybody online so i gaveup. Also i dont play that much anyway. I would need to basically stop dota for aos. I could for African or some old friends if they really wanted to. But i don't think its the case.

Btw. did tournament already had place? who won? Im so clueless sorry for offtop

Edited March 30, 2017 by SayMyName