Stukov

[MOTHER]

Some harsh truths about Stukov that I just realized (after Zorro owned me mid in a bad ih *looks at SCV).

 

Stukov is too strong. It's amazing how a hero that started out as being "inspired" by the Lich from DotA evolved into this current monstrosity.

 

He deals way too much damage early, and this is a due to the high base damage of Q (compare it to Dustin's Q which doesn't even have secondary effects besides aoe) combined with its short cool down and relatively low energy cost (compare damage point per energy with most INT casters to see what I mean), max health scaling of W, and most importantly his heroic passive. This is all made worse by how it all comes so easy for him when all he has to manage is getting as tanky as possible. Health Points coverting to Energy + Damage innately and effortlessly. Brilliant.

 

The hero has an extremely linear style of play, with faux depth brought on by unnecessary complexity. I get he is meant to be a caster/bruiser, but he is also a support, healer, carry, semi-carry, burst damage, etc. You can do no wrong by having this hero on your team. The idea of heroes that occupy too many roles is a slap in the face of the attribute system and the integrity of hero roles to begin with. Even then, a jack of all trades will presumably be a master of none, but not Stukov. Stukov is water, he is shapeless and can take on any form. *cue wind blowing fields of grass*

 

I can't suggest nerfs honestly, because I think he needs the bigger part of a remake on some of skills than just straight up number tweaks. He actually would've been far more unique in the AoS setting if his design remained more faithful to DotA's Lich.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Jessika

[ZERATUL]

While it stands that stukov is on the strong side, I don't think unix should be losing lane to anything, he can atleast stay even.

[MOTHER]

My performance as Unix in that game is quite irrelevant as I am not basing my argument on the results of one game.

[ZERATUL]

Ok I probobly just missunderstood first sentance

Anyway either nerf passive or W

Edited December 25, 2016 by ZERATUL

[Destroyer]

I don't think he is based off of lich. And more or less he is stupid strong early but falls off late. Kinda like penthos.

[MOTHER]

When Ecko released him first he had a chain frost like ult. He also had a poison effect instead of frost, and he gives insane armor like Lich. His Q and W together could sub for Lich's Frost Nova. Obviously Ecko took liberties and adapted him further but the parallels to Lich were definitely there in the beginning.

[PlantMan]

We need to stop nerfing all these heroes. For far too long changelogs have been filled with nerfs. We need 7.0, a fresh begginning with plenty of buffs to liven up AoS. For the past two years laziness has predominated with the current crop of 'meta' being the least changed. Totally BS. Stukov for example has been nerfed multiple times since release. Nova likewise. Penthos, Vergil, Nova, Darpa, Dustin, Unix, Khyrak. I mean the list goes on. When is the last time a changelog was released with more buffs than nerfs?

 

In a game like LoL this could be seen as acceptable, where the masteries get changed every year and there are new items to keep the game alive. But here we haven't had a new item in ages, let alone a new 'meta' item. In fact we've had them removed - Massamune/Shadowmourne.

 

TLDR: I could balance this game better than anyone.

[PurePsycho]

We need to stop nerfing all these heroes. For far too long changelogs have been filled with nerfs. We need 7.0, a fresh begginning with plenty of buffs to liven up AoS. For the past two years laziness has predominated with the current crop of 'meta' being the least changed. Totally BS. Stukov for example has been nerfed multiple times since release. Nova likewise. Penthos, Vergil, Nova, Darpa, Dustin, Unix, Khyrak. I mean the list goes on. When is the last time a changelog was released with more buffs than nerfs?

 

In a game like LoL this could be seen as acceptable, where the masteries get changed every year and there are new items to keep the game alive. But here we haven't had a new item in ages, let alone a new 'meta' item. In fact we've had them removed - Massamune/Shadowmourne.

 

TLDR: I could balance this game better than anyone.

eat shap

[MOTHER]

We need to stop nerfing all these heroes. For far too long changelogs have been filled with nerfs. We need 7.0, a fresh begginning with plenty of buffs to liven up AoS. For the past two years laziness has predominated with the current crop of 'meta' being the least changed. Totally BS. Stukov for example has been nerfed multiple times since release. Nova likewise. Penthos, Vergil, Nova, Darpa, Dustin, Unix, Khyrak. I mean the list goes on. When is the last time a changelog was released with more buffs than nerfs?

 

In a game like LoL this could be seen as acceptable, where the masteries get changed every year and there are new items to keep the game alive. But here we haven't had a new item in ages, let alone a new 'meta' item. In fact we've had them removed - Massamune/Shadowmourne.

 

TLDR: I could balance this game better than anyone.

 

I'll concede to needing a few new items that fill gaps and niches here and there. Spice up stuff.

 

But nothing else. The most recent crops of heroes are powercreeped af that's why the balance changelogs of 2016 have been an effort to put them in line. Sure, some of the old heroes do need tweaks here and there, more utility, etc. so they can best embody their role and style. But straight up buffs for no reason is absurd.

[PlantMan]

eat shap

 

I will discipline you with my fist. Respect elders Ali.

 

 

@Jessika. But look at every changelog Adam's made/alot of Whale's*. Almost all of them have more nerfs in than buffs. This laziness has stifled the game and made people be driven to LoL/Dota. Why can't we go back to the time were the dev (EKCO) dynamically altered values every few weeks. Just check Page 4 of the section where the changelogs are, multiple updates per month.

 

*I BM this guy a lot but to be fair he did make a hella lot of changes when he first started. He spruced up the game and this is what we need now - but with more pizzazz.

[SCV]

*looks at SCV).

 

???

Why look at me?

???

[WhaleTits]

When Ecko released him first he had a chain frost like ult. He also had a poison effect instead of frost, and he gives insane armor like Lich. His Q and W together could sub for Lich's Frost Nova. Obviously Ecko took liberties and adapted him further but the parallels to Lich were definitely there in the beginning.

 

you can't call a champion whose only current kit similarity to lich is his awful carry over armor + hp regen buff (vestige of his kit from ekko's lich ripoff) as "inspired" by lich as if he's some thinly veiled clone. Literally only the worst spell in the game is from lich.

[Destroyer]

Yea stukov was designed to be a mid game caster carry/bruiser. Pretty much the caster version of penthos. Stupid strong in lane and mid game who needs to end the game before he gets out scaled.

[MOTHER]

you can't call a champion whose only current kit similarity to lich is his awful carry over armor + hp regen buff (vestige of his kit from ekko's lich ripoff) as "inspired" by lich as if he's some thinly veiled clone.

 

You're right, except I didn't call him that. I said Stukov started out as a Lich inspired hero and then "evolved into this current monstrosity".

 

Yea stukov was designed to be a mid game caster carry/bruiser. Pretty much the caster version of penthos. Stupid strong in lane and mid game who needs to end the game before he gets out scaled.

 

Penthos isn't some paragon of design that heroes should strive to emulate him TBH. He's inelegant, has everything tacked on but the kitchen sink, and has been degrees of OP for a very long time to show for it.

[WhaleTits]

Look, i'm not going to get into an argument with you so i'm not going to respond past this (there's little value to this conversation with you, and little purpose discussing this)

 

but i can't stand shap arguments and salt posts. it's pretty clear what he is meant to be, aside from the awful remaining lich spell on his kit that confounds his play and seems to make you think he's a "support, healer" (implying healer is a class definition outside of support). and "faux depth from unnecessary complexity"? please.

[MOTHER]

You seem agitated. We clearly have different design philosophies and ideals. You hate Stukov E, and I hate everything but Stukov E. You like champions, and I like heroes. So really, you shouldn't take any of this personally.

[ZERATUL]

@Dest Maybe like super late game when everyone has 6 items, but even then he's strong. Mb its more cuz of cerebro stars burst.

Stukovs E is pretty stupid ability, especially on him, everything else is ok, especially the ult.

As I said if he rly needs nerfs just nerf W max hp scaling

Edited December 26, 2016 by ZERATUL

[MOTHER]

Okay so if we wanna talk about nerfs I'd go after the heroic's bonus current health damage scaling first. Reduce it from 10% to 7.5%.

 

Secondary nerfs would be:

 

The base damage of Q reduced and rescaled to 50/100/150/200.

 

Target Max Health scaling of W reduced to 10% and/or changed to current health. Alternatively, remove base damage completely and make it just deal something like 16/18/20/22% Target Max HP (or 22/24/26/28% Target Current HP) spell damage over 5 seconds.

 

My tweaks would be:

 

E now also improves healing effects on target ally for its duration (by 20/30/40/50%?). This will make the skill more relevant through out the game for him and his team. It will also amplify the healing of R when used together.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Jessika

[ZERATUL]

Lol no that just sounds ridicilous stukovs E has 10 sec duration and 15 sec cd on last lvl. Plus it already heals you and gives armor. I'd honestly just rework the E.

Q is fine, its not that ez to hit.

Passive and W are things to be looked at.

[MOTHER]

The point of the change to E is to make it scale and make it relevant. I don't think the overlap in duration and cool down is an argument against it. With CDR, E can already be up all the time. The point is to not make it stack, be abusable.

 

I'd remove the base health regeneration of E and replace it with % improved regeneration, then balance the numbers accordingly. It harmonizes better with his kit.

 

Improved and reduced healing effects are an underused mechanic IMO. And it isn't braindead since it needs to combo with other things to yield maximum results.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Jessika

[Dafuq]

Some harsh truths about Stukov that I just realized (after Zorro owned me mid in a bad ih *looks at SCV).

 

i bet this is the game ur talking about :)

 

[MOTHER]

The game prior to this I believe Zera played Stukov mid also, and he was predictably vicious. Although Zera can make any hero look OP, still Stukov does need looking into.

[Dafuq]

zera aka Parasite 9-0-9 Stukov:

 

pendant, ihan, grav, stars

 

In the game above, Zera was 5-0-12 Rory.

 

MVP support that never dies

[Yaldi]

zera aka Parasite 9-0-9 Stukov:

 

pendant, ihan, grav, stars

 

In the game above, Zera was 5-0-12 Rory.

 

MVP support that never dies

 

More like neko support who never helps amirite?

[Dafuq]

More like neko support who never helps amirite?

 

ya know, i was just thinking that, if a support never dies is that really a good sign?