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Few more balance changes


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1)Cow-Thers definitely some problems with the hero and needs nerfs in some areas, however he will need something in return, lot of ppl just don't know to lane against him.

Starting dmg 48->60

E clips-Bonus dmg 125%-->150%

Q-Change base dmg to 80/130/180/230 Energy cost 85/100/115/130-->100/115/130/145

W-Energy cost now 75 on lvls from 65

E echo-Doesent deal dmg to creeps anymore, still echos from them tho. Now echos 5x dmg from heroes from 3x

R reduce base dmg to 200/300/400 Increse max dmg amp to 100% again, and decrese % dmg amp per unit, make it 1.5% per unit, 2.5 is too much. Toilet hp from 125+25*lvl to 125+50*lvl

Other option is to just rework(change numbers)of all his abilities and make it a completely different role, thers some good suggestions by Jaysi and Dresden.


2)Lz What exactly is the direction for this hero? If you want to make him AA he's probobly fine, but Idk about that. I'd give back his q imunity, but nerf E to the ground, or completely rework it might be a better idea.


3)Brine definitely needs some nerf to passive dmg, not rly sure how much, but it should probobly be on % max hp scaling. Maybe just make it current hp.

E cd-Increse to 24-22-20-18


4)Viron Ult dmg from 150-300/250-500/350-700 (+6% Virons Maximum Health)->150-400/250-600/350-800 (+6-10% Virons Max hp)

No I dont think its too much, if some1 gets hit by viron ult on end of duration he should take that much dmg.


5)Cypres-Definitely needs nerf to E cost, same as vergil. E cost 65/70/75/80->100 on all levels

R-Remove pillars INT scaling, reduce base dmg to 300/500/700, Increase scaling to 80% OR lower even more ult scaling and base dmg but make him playing around more around his pillars.


6)Vergil E cost 50/60/70/80->70-80-90-100

Make him an int hero not agi


7)Summers- make mines not being revealed by scans, but then you also need to make scans not reveal wards and tumors, as jessika suggested.

R detonation time 1.3sec->1.5/0.75/0


However, some things would need to get changed cuz this:


Summers W CD from 80/60/40/20 to 80/65/50/35

Ghost W CD from 80/65/50/35 to 80/70/60/50



Q bonus dmg on AA's 3% max hp->3% current hp

W Definitely needs nerf in some area, or to armor and spell armor gained or shields gained from drain

V Passive now has 0.5 sec channel time



Q dmg from 65/80/98/110->70/90/110/130

Increse max stacks to 5


10)Psionic- Remove dmg reduction when it hits hero and then hero again(if this is possible even), but if it hits creep and then anything else dmg reduced by 50% as it is now


11)Queen-Reduce biomass restore on pickup to 6%

R-Scaling increased to 0.6 again


12)Nova-Does anybody ever use her ult in any srs game? Everybody I asked agrees her ult is epic crap, so thers 3 options for this:

1)Decrese base channel

2)Make it so she gets bonus AA range

3)Increse dmg to 75/95/115 and keep scalings same


13)Rory R duration 6sec-7sec



W int scaling 16%->20%

R 70/105/140(+28%Int)->80/120/160 + 35% Int

R cd 100/80/60->80/60/40



R-Empovers her next ability->all abilities during 4/5/6 seconds



R-Make it so its only canceled when attacked by heroes/bosses, not creeps


And dont forget fortify buff :)

Edited by ZERATUL
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Would also add giving corona 5 stacks back. Idk why it got changed to 4 in the first place, maybe a slight increase in damage ult either the initial or the trickle amount.


As far as cow I think the main concern for me is the ult and how it has such a short distance to be maxed. I would double the range it takes to stack the damage.


The summers change you suggested is what I have said since I came back to the game. Its so stupid you can see because of scans it used to never be like this. Only way you could see was with true sight.


Cyprus E is okay but I think the fact he can just walk up and ult to kill someone without even using his pillars is bull. I would nerf the damage from the ult but increase the damage done per pillar on the ult so that he has to hit a combo to kill rather that just walk up, ult, and say deuces


Brines problem is his C/D on his pull. That def needs to be increased a few seconds and his Q heroic needs to be dialed down a bit. His heals are a little excessive to. Brine could go completely int build and have 0 tank items and still be the highest tanking in the game easily.


Virgil is fine the way he is now


Psi from what I have seen is fine the way he is. I suck with him but I have seen a few people play with him in ih and go 20+ kills. I just think his early game it way to weak. He can be easily bullied out by any hero mid, prob even boros and shadow.


Greelus I agree on changes. I would nerf the armor and spell resistance gained but keep shield amount where its at. I like the fact he can be build as a tanky int hero.


LZ is shap I dont like the change to his Q I personally always thought his e was the problem it scaled to much resistance. The weapon speed was fine. The Q imo was the main thing that mad him lz. His Q to me was more was viable than his Ult but whatever.


Virons ult ehhh maybe a small buff I guess, especially since no one plays it. I dont find virons ult to be his op aspect its his tank ability and his damn Q


Some heros not mentioned here


Ere needs a small nerf in the Q heal amount of the C/D to be increased a little more. This hero is prob the most dumb hero in game right now


Khyrak - make him vulnerable during his Q


Unix - flob this hero period. Delete K thanks. I honestly would love to see his ult reworked to where is slows and silences the hero or roots them but not completely stuns its so flobing retarded. To balance this out while unix ults he takes decreased amount of damage and increase healing from it a little bit. Or you can make it just one stun so para helps against this not a constant renewing stun.

Edited by BlackXioN
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10+ viron buff

All are changes and it will make adam say "thats hot"

delete unix

not sure if brine needs nerf, his acid only 10% spell dmg max hp, reduce to 7.5%, increasing cd on E is better

Give corona that buff, 5 stacks on ion again, fix W bugging and she will be great imo, I like her playstyle and it has been since RoA her first appearance

Edited by accountzZ
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I wouldn't mind transitioning Cow back into a caster bruiser. Nerf straight up damage on Q and R, but buff echo. Add the slowing and AoE/DoT damage effect back to R(I think it used to knockup and slow but that would OP). Let him use his Q more for utility sake (maybe decrease CD on it) and R can be used more for actually saving allies. Both can still do good damage in groups of enemies with echo. I just dislike now how his R is mainly a long range nuke and the utility of it healing/saving allies is rarely used.


LZ I like seeing as a Tank/support/anti spell, but with the ability to go bruiser. Maybe that makes him harder to balance. Granted, tank/support on him is fairly boring.


In regards to Summers, maybe don't allow scans to scan in bushes if the hero isn't in it? At least then he can plant mines and catch people in bushes.

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I'm glad someone made one of these threads again as I didn't think my suggestions were that many to deserve their own. Please correct me if I am missing something.





First time started playing this guy after the revisions he went through and I wasn't so sure how to build him (I am building him CDR+ energy at the moment with some tank). Maybe I am misunderstanding him, but some things did stand out:


He isn't really a DPS hero like he once was.

His Cooldowns are really high, especially for a supporty kind of hero that he is now.

He is impotent during the early-mid game, for a support hero that's a big one I felt. I mean he deals very little damage and cannot finish off a hero for the life of him.


I think ONE or some of the following should be reconsidered:


1- Give him a variation of his old heroic passive (for example attacks deal bonus damage equal to 1% of energy as spell damage). Carry the armor bonus from his current heroic over to W and adjust it accordingly. It doesn't deserve to be a heroic IMO.


2- Q base damage scaling is atrocious and needs a minor buff. Perhaps bumping the base damage energy scaling from 2.5% to 5% would do the trick and/or making it charge faster. Also making it so that the charging timer begins counting from the moment the projectile leaves Immo rather from when it stops (if this isn't the case already). The spell costs 15% of his energy at all stages of the game, it really should have better base damage for early game. Especially since it deals shap to creeps.


3- W procs once every 2 seconds rather than once every 3, and/or W lasts 5 seconds instead of 4.







Queen is actually in a great spot. She's really strong, but not without exploitable weaknesses and is definitely one of the more solid designs. However there is a tiny problem that I feel should be addressed. Queen's biomass pick-ups really do replenish too much biomass. Currently they replenish 10% of max biomass. Combined with her waveclear, Queen can pretty much be at full energy with every creep wave. This isn't very bad but it needs a tiny tweak.


I propose one of or a combination of:


1- Reduce Biomass replenishment from 10 down to 6-8%.

2- Reduce V cast range by 1 or 2 units.


Besides this, please don't touch her (unless you want to give her creep tumors 2/3/4/5 charges which I would be very much ok with xD ).






This one may deserve to go in suggestions but there is something off about the hero. He has the one-dimensional playstyle of the Old Immo design, where you expend on your resources with one or two skills then you have to keep pressing using other skills to replenish said resources. I think a little bit of a redesign might be in order here.


I would remove the heal mechanic from Q entirely, and then buff its damage/range, make it deal damage based on number of stacks for example. Q would also now cost health rather than energy.


We shift the focus of the hero to W and the skill of using W. W costs energy now instead of health. But W also heals Yig now and is the primary means of replenishing lost health from using his other skills. W can heal equal to the amount of damage dealt (before reductions), but it will heal 3 or 4x that amount if it hits a hero. An alternative idea is making W deal damage based on STR rather than INT, and attach a temporary STR steal mechanic to it (e.g. Yig steals X STR from target energy hero from 60 seconds). The basic idea here is to remove the braindead Q spam and reward skilled Yig players. For this idea to work even better, the CDR Yig gains from a successful W hit should be increased.






What happened to this guy? I realize that his stun was really OP back in the day but like Immo he too feels impotent now. The duration of his stun was cut in half or less, but the damage was kept the same wasn't it? I would seriously consider doubling the damage of his R or buffing the damage of his W to give him some of that assassin threat back. But if you want to keep him as a tanky/mule support hero rather than a damage dealer than I recommend a buffing to his Q's MS and energy/health only.



I also strongly agree with the Greelus W and Brine heroic nerfs.

Edited by Jessika
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Your an idiot thinking unix needs a buff especially his ult. sooo didnt ready the rest


The irony here may be lost on you.


Granted I haven't played the hero in years, I don't remember him feeling this weak. I am referring to him as the solo killer he was, which he no longer really is. He feels more of a support hero, which is why I said that if this is his intended role now (since I may have missed the memo) then he should get a buff to his Q.


No need for the name calling.


Moving on. I also think scans should only reveal cloaked and burrowed units. Scans should not reveal:






It renders the whole point of TS wards and TS elixir useless.


Speaking of wards, I don't think true sight wards should give vision. I prefer DotA's approach to warding, which means you need a TS ward to remove a Sentry ward and sentry wards are the only wards that provide vision.


Currently, there is no benefit to buying sentry wards besides them being cheaper.

Edited by Jessika
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Hmm about immortal

I agree his q needs a buff when its standing there for some time, however W should be nerfed not buffed, trust me its rly rly strong.


Queen I definitely agree with that, but Id like ult to go back up 0.6


Unix definitely doesent need a buff. You probobly dont know this, but if units are hit by fungal or ult, marines deal 2x dmg.


I was thinking first reduce cypres ult dmg and it probobly will be required however E must be nerfed first. You can just get it in first 3 levels and its rly doubtfull you will die to ganks, and its only 65 energy on level 1. Considering you will level it up last incresed energy cost per level makes no sense at all. Making it 100 on all levels makes much more sense to me.


I probobly made a mistake on vergil, considering weak early game.


Erecul should be COMPLETELY reworked hero is just so stupid and boring to play, while being a good pick acctualy. Thers nothing special you have to do lol, if some1 trys to get close to u just qqqqqq, nothing else, and the fact he gets healed so much is so stupid, rework.


I think unix is just too annoying to play against, if its made that scans dont reveal TS wards, I dont see reason for him to be nerfed.


Also I forgot to writte about cows ult I would make it lot more tankier I think thers lot of interesting things that could be made from his ult, not only bursting down enemy team, lets be a bit more creative :)

Edited by ZERATUL
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Buff flares? Lol


I actually don't know what they currently do. But I think if they could be launched up to like 15-25 units and reveal an area for 10-30 seconds that they would be useful? Maybe we don't actually need them though lol.

Edited by Jaysi
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Dustin doesnt need a buff btw destoyer played him yesterday and owned. I believe atom even said he is fine. Will say Corona was played by harry and sucked though lol

Also I don't like the V change for greelus you suggested especially since a set beacon that everyone can see unlike psi old one where he could do it anywhere.

Buffing nova is just dumb. Just because a strong hero has a dumb ult, that volleys people I might add, does make her weak. Imagine nova with a strong ult....she would be auto.

Rory is fine

Queen is strong but fine.

Edited by BlackXioN
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Ok so basicly what you are saying its fine that nova has useless ult, you wouldnt mind if we aswell remove it? She would still be strong! While we are at it lets remove khyraks, maars, lurkers and bunch of other heroes ult, they would still be strong!

lol ok Ill trust u dustin is fine, even tho I never see it played

Rorys ult just ends too fast

Queen change is needed, rather see ult dealing more dmg and playing more carefully around ur biomass not just 1 q, pick up few biomass and ur full again.

Edited by ZERATUL
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I dont see how an ult on nova which allows him to volley heros is not strong. All those heros would still be extremely strong without their ults so idk what you are trying to prove. The point of rory ult is to work with his rebounder in a combo. Have you seen heros who get caught in rory ult with rebound and malo? Its stupid.

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I agree with Vergil buff and Nova change.


I don't know who decided to change Nova's ult, but that person is a moron. Honestly I challenge anyone to show me footage of someone half decent using that utli. It's a shame the devs here are too noob for school, none of them main AA heroes and therefore can not objectively see that they need buffs. All they see unfortunately (for them) is the great Skydie going balls deep in them every game.

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Yea Harry played corona and sucked, and by sucked he meant having the third highest damage out (may have been second if he didn't get kicked before last push), could kill any two heroes from the other team outside of pyro, and was generally doing harry things and going rambo. Hell even in the lane he was only 10 cs behind kura in mid.


As for the rest I agree with most of them, although I think the brine nerf should just be the cd's of his e and heroic passive, something like 3-5 seconds at all levels. For rory don't add any duration, just make it so it doesn't take so long to set-up, it feels like it takes forever before it starts shooting. And if you make verg an int hero you would need to nerf his numbers.


Actually skydie when that ult was first put in it gave her extra range as well so she could attack without being punished as hard, and was pretty decent, but people boiied until it got nerfed. And pls no buff vergil, hero doesn't need it.



Edited by Destroyer
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