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ZERATUL
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I think bases are one of most stupid unbalanced things atm, and already I saw so many games that are one sided whole game and then you push t3's and artifact like 40 minutes, and sometimes even lose those games. I'm not saying if team picks 5 bad pushers should be able to push towers easy, but there must be some reworkes on base(mostly incresed size)

1)Make all t3's more seperate one from another

2)make all t3's lot more seperate from artifact

These are main things, this mostly means that tower dives are actually possible without getting hit by artifact and other tower. And other thing is to make splitpushing much more viable. I even think that there are heroes that can defend two t3's at once, but again I feel its more problem to how base is made. Also it would make possible to put wards in base without it getting spot by 2 towers

Maybe there are few more small things, but these are main ones

Edited by ZERATUL
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Agreed, I made a post about it here http://aeonofstorms.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/7218-the-problem-with-the-artifact-tier-3s-and-ending-the-game/.

 

So if changing the base terrain is too hard, some easier suggestions might be

1) Make the creep waves more difficult to kill (either buff basic minions, make siege minions stronger, or give worm a minion buff)

2) Make the creep waves meet further from the tier 3's so the attacking team can clear the opposing wave and push into the base with a full wave.

3) Get rid of the ramps denying vision into the base

4) Make the creep waves from all 3 lanes meet at the same time or arrive at the tier 3 at the same time so 1 person can't rotate to multiple lanes to wave clear

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I'm a bit confused. While I do find it frustrating how well some comps can turtle, I think the original poster is ignoring the fact that the opposing team will have the same issue pushing his own base. So if he couldn't push their tier 3 because the enemy team was killing his team each time he tried, but the enemy team could push his base without dying, I'm not sure the real issue is the base mechanics, but rather his team being weaker than the other in a team fight despite being more fed, probably from 1v1s and such earlier in the game.

 

If you win a team fight you can push a tower. If you get levi you can literally ignore the enemy team and focus fire a tier three and kill it within seconds, then run away. A hero like tassadar once maxed can sprint up to a tier 3 tower and attack it down to half hp in like 3 seconds, and run away.

 

I don't have an issue with needing to kill the defending heroes to be able to push into their base, and you already don't have to. If you take a risk and have all five of your teammates focus a tier 3 irrespective of the enemy team's actions and without even having your own creep wave present to assist you, you'll kill the tower and sometimes won't even die doing it (I have replays of this exact thing).

 

I think the balance issues created by weakening the base would be far worse than what's presented in this thread, I think the op's frustration is misguided, and that yes it is possible to legitimately lose even though you were winning initially. In a game where your team out comps and out skills your opponent, you'll easily push the tier 3 as the base is currently designed.

 

It's not broken so I'm not sure why it should be fixed.

 

edit: Also, it would seem extraordinarily biased to make any changes to base mechanics right before the Chistmas Tournament, since this thread is basically a "change the game so that my playstyle works better" thread. And it wouldn't be the first time that this sort of thing occurred right before a tournament.

Edited by Usoland
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I'm a bit confused. While I do find it frustrating how well some comps can turtle, I think the original poster is ignoring the fact that the opposing team will have the same issue pushing his own base. So if he couldn't push their tier 3 because the enemy team was killing his team each time he tried, but the enemy team could push his base without dying, I'm not sure the real issue is the base mechanics, but rather his team being weaker than the other in a team fight despite being more fed, probably from 1v1s and such earlier in the game.

Ehm wrong, looks like you completely ignored some things. First of all if a team succesfully turtles whole game, doesent it mean its late game already, and it will be much easier to push towers, and those heroes will acctualy scale up. Another thing is ur basicly saying its same thing when you teamfight in middle of jungle and between enemys t3 and artifact. And I never said that every team comp should be able to easily push t3 towers, which I kinda even said and u completely ignored it.

 

If you win a team fight you can push a tower. If you get levi you can literally ignore the enemy team and focus fire a tier three and kill it within seconds, then run away. A hero like tassadar once maxed can sprint up to a tier 3 tower and attack it down to half hp in like 3 seconds, and run away.

But the thing you arent saying is that its with t3 boss, t2 is much weaker. Also tell me when did I say that every time some1 trys to turtle its always succesfull???

 

I don't have an issue with needing to kill the defending heroes to be able to push into their base, and you already don't have to. If you take a risk and have all five of your teammates focus a tier 3 irrespective of the enemy team's actions and without even having your own creep wave present to assist you, you'll kill the tower and sometimes won't even die doing it (I have replays of this exact thing).

Im obviously not talking about some random pub.

 

 

I think the balance issues created by weakening the base would be far worse than what's presented in this thread, I think the op's frustration is misguided, and that yes it is possible to legitimately lose even though you were winning initially. In a game where your team out comps and out skills your opponent, you'll easily push the tier 3 as the base is currently designed.

Please tell me what would happen if these suggestions were implemented?

 

It's not broken so I'm not sure why it should be fixed.

 

edit: Also, it would seem extraordinarily biased to make any changes to base mechanics right before the Chistmas Tournament, since this thread is basically a "change the game so that my playstyle works better" thread. And it wouldn't be the first time that this sort of thing occurred right before a tournament.

I never asked it to be made before tourny, altho I do think game would be much better. About me trying to change game cuz playstyle is some random nonsense u made up, I dont even know who you are, but somehow you know all about my teams playstyle :) Plus most of ppl agree these changes would be good.

Edited by ZERATUL
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Your tone is hostile and irrational, relying on misrepresentation of my argument rather than refuting any of my points. I play IH whenever it is available, and do not believe that the game is currently broken.

1. I do not believe that a team fight in the jungle is the same as a team fight 5v5 at the enemy's tier 3 base tower, nor do I believe it should be. It should be substantially more difficult to win a team fight in range of an enemy team's tier 3 tower. Currently it is not that difficult except from poor play or bad draft. I do not agree that it should be made easier to destroy the enemy tower while all five enemy heroes are alive, present, and guarding it. You might as well advocate removing the ability for structures to attack the enemy team if you just want the more geared team to auto win any game.

 

If you wreck an enemy team and then lose because you get impatient and get team wiped in their tier 3 tower you deserve it. The only way they'd be destroying your own base, based on your argument that bases are so immortally strong that the game is broken, is if your own team is in the respawn queue AKA unless you were outplayed.

 

Tassadar can rape a t3 tower without boss if he pushes creep to the tower, even if the entire enemy team quickly evaporates the creeps as they approach the tower, those few unbuffed hits will allow him to do massive damage before running away.

 

The public playerbase is so small that a "random pub" is often 5 IH players vs 5 IH players (and IH games are often created by inviting people from public lobbies because it's hard to get IH going), but not even two days ago I played in an IH with Dante and HarryHoot as captains and Apache as first pick, it was the game I was referring to, because we pushed into their base while they were alive by focusing tower and ignoring enemy team, and it was easy even though enemy team spammed us, stunned us, etc. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they do not play IH games or that they are not referring to an IH game. I play for several hours every day and vs any comp I just do not experience the issue that you appear so frustrated over. This doesn't mean I'm correct, but it does mean you should stop trying to prove me wrong with misdirection and appeals to emotion.

 

Five (often just two or three depending on which heroes as well) level 15 heroes can run up to a tier 3 enemy tower and destroy it without a creep wave present if the enemy team is dead, with or without levi buff. The tower's HP drops fast as long as you have enough units present to remove its backdoor buff. If the whole enemy team is alive I don't think it should be easy to destroy their tower, but it already is if you just deward and bum rush one of them at random so that the enemy team only has a 1/3 chance of being present at the right tower, so I can't see the need for weakening base.

 

You first state that you aren't suggesting making changes to the functionality/design of the base/global units itself/themselves before an upcoming tournament, but then contradict yourself and recommend exactly that, which suggests your motives may be for an advantage in said tournament by changing the game to accommodate what you want.

 

>Please tell me what would happen if these suggestions were implemented?

The meta of the game would change substantially immediately before a tournament and clearly in your favor because it would be due to your and others' frustration of being unable to overcome a playstyle you don't like, even though a turtle is rarely successful in my anecdotal experience. I have lost to turtle too, but rather than try and change the mechanics of the game I accepted that my team made critical mistakes that lost us a game we would have won if we didn't make those mistakes, and said GGWP and played smarter the next time I had to deal with a turtle comp.

 

If you weaken the base then push comp becomes overburdening, which was why the base was strengthened in the past in the first place, because they would just push into an enemy's tier 3 with ease even if all 5 enemy players were alive defending said tower.

 

It is very possible that adjustments can be made to ease your frustration with the game without breaking it, but like I said before, immediately before a big tournament seems like a weird time to suggest it. In fact, even with the base as strong as it is now, the most recent patches to it weakened pusher heroes like Marine King somewhat. Which your suggestion to weaken the base comes immediately after, immediately before the tournament.

Edited by Usoland
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Well first of all Im sorry if my post was hostile but I didnt rly bother after you wrote I only made this topic cuz my teams playstyle.. We dont even pick heroes as mk :)

You make some good points, but I would still like to see some things speedo mentioned

1)To make creep waves not meet exactly just out of highground vision, make so they meet bit further from tower

2)To push ramp just a bit further

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Agreed, I made a post about it here http://aeonofstorms....ding-the-game/.

 

So if changing the base terrain is too hard, some easier suggestions might be

1) Make the creep waves more difficult to kill (either buff basic minions, make siege minions stronger, or give worm a minion buff)

2) Make the creep waves meet further from the tier 3's so the attacking team can clear the opposing wave and push into the base with a full wave.

3) Get rid of the ramps denying vision into the base

4) Make the creep waves from all 3 lanes meet at the same time or arrive at the tier 3 at the same time so 1 person can't rotate to multiple lanes to wave clear

 

http://aeonofstorms....-size-increase/

 

You guys are about 2 years to late. I made this post so long ago the jpegs expired......

 

 

Please notice Revision and Adam defending the small nature of the base :D

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Ah always enjoy quid posts.

 

They both had good reasons why to not expand the base back then. Lack of Tp and how fast you could kill buildings back then would have been a problem. You change one thing and you need to change more. Your ideas were good but you were either short sighted or too optimistic. You change base size, base is now a very large part of the map, map has to be changed, terrain takes a lot of work and time, splitpush and pushers could be problematic, recalling to your base and walking to the t3 to defend them might take a very long time so now you need to fix that. This wasn't the first time people wanted bigger bases but it might have been the first decent thread for so i will give you that.

 

I also like that little jab at ecko in there, very tasteful.

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I called ekko Anal. Dylan mistook it for an insult. In America anal is something that is said quite often...

 

You change base size, base is now a very large part of the map, map has to be changed, terrain takes a lot of work and time,

 

This is the exact reason why I stated the change is unlikely to happen? But im glad to know im short sighted?

 

Im sensing a bit of hostility from you.

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