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Dat Boros


NoWaterJustIce
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I was talking to a couple of people earlier today and we felt that boros might be in need of some small changes.

 

HP:

50%int spell dmg over 5 seconds ==> 30(+15-25%Int spell dmg)

 

-mid to late game int boros does absurd amounts of dmg with omnislash. with this change it would reduce that without making it horrible while making burning blade actually useful early game because right now it isnt noticeable

 

Q

450(+200%Int) spell dmg over 4 seconds ==> 280-300(+100%Int) spell dmg over 4 seconds

 

-lets be real, this skill currently does more dmg than any other none ult skill in the game especially when built Int while also granting debuff and spell immunity. this would still be strong when built Int while not being overbearing. the early game buff to Burning blade would make up for this dmg as far as jungling goes.

 

E

14/20/26/32% bonus crit chance ==> 15/20/25/30% bonus crit chance 15/20/25/30 bonus weapon dmg

 

-this skill has always felt pretty bad and could maybe use a small buff

 

While boros has Bola and his ult he will always be a decent pick especially in IH so i dont feel that a nerf to his Q and change to his HP would make him less viable. and maybe we might see less boros in pubs

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There's pretty much a 0% chance I'm willing to buff boros. I'd be willing to take a look at moving some power from his Q to his heroic passive and his E (possibly changing them completely), but I'd rather do that than mess around with the numbers. He doesn't seem overbearingly strong, so I'm not super concerned about him balance-wise, though I find his kit a little (read: a lot) obnoxious.

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I was talking to a couple of people earlier today and we felt that boros might be in need of some small changes.

 

HP:

50%int spell dmg over 5 seconds ==> 30(+15-25%Int spell dmg)

 

-mid to late game int boros does absurd amounts of dmg with omnislash. with this change it would reduce that without making it horrible while making burning blade actually useful early game because right now it isnt noticeable

 

Q

450(+200%Int) spell dmg over 4 seconds ==> 280-300(+100%Int) spell dmg over 4 seconds

 

-lets be real, this skill currently does more dmg than any other none ult skill in the game especially when built Int while also granting debuff and spell immunity. this would still be strong when built Int while not being overbearing. the early game buff to Burning blade would make up for this dmg as far as jungling goes.

 

E

14/20/26/32% bonus crit chance ==> 15/20/25/30% bonus crit chance 15/20/25/30 bonus weapon dmg

 

-this skill has always felt pretty bad and could maybe use a small buff

 

While boros has Bola and his ult he will always be a decent pick especially in IH so i dont feel that a nerf to his Q and change to his HP would make him less viable. and maybe we might see less boros in pubs

this is potentially a buff to boros if all these changes were to be made
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Not even addressing bola, the skill that is his most ridiculous one?

 

The low cool down and the cool down reduction on bola is hilariously bad. This skill keeps the entire enemy team in fear the entire game making it hard to concentrate on other things. Throws bola and misses so you think you are out of the clear? Wrong. Easily pulls a creep or ally on the back swing then throws it again and with any cdr or energy regen this is easy to keep up. Also, the animation on this thing is frustrating to say the least. Bola is going straight, you are going at a slight angle away from it for 2 seconds boom, all of a sudden starts pulling you. Wtf is that? Why a skill has an animation like this and can still be in the game is beyond me.

 

Having an isolating pull on a hero with high single target damage is also bad design. You have to have strengths and weaknesses. High single target damage should be balanced out by having to have good positioning and finding people out of place not just throwing out bola after bola until you get lucky.

 

Change to a grapple is my suggestion. Maybe make it so he can use it to pull himself to terrain and allies for escape as well?

Edited by Dresden
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Not even addressing bola, the skill that is his most ridiculous one?

 

The low cool down and the cool down reduction on bola is hilariously bad. This skill keeps the entire enemy team in fear the entire game making it hard to concentrate on other things. Throws bola and misses so you think you are out of the clear? Wrong. Easily pulls a creep or ally on the back swing then throws it again and with any cdr or energy regen this is easy to keep up. Also, the animation on this thing is frustrating to say the least. Bola is going straight, you are going at a slight angle away from it for 2 seconds boom, all of a sudden starts pulling you. Wtf is that? Why a skill has an animation like this and can still be in the game is beyond me.

 

Having an isolating pull on a hero with high single target damage is also bad design. You have to have strengths and weaknesses. High single target damage should be balanced out by having to have good positioning and finding people out of place not just throwing out bola after bola until you get lucky.

 

Change to a grapple is my suggestion. Maybe make it so he can use it to pull himself to terrain and allies for escape as well?

 

Don't be obnoxious, I was responding to Quistmann's comment regarding his heroic passive and his E.

 

We're perfectly willing to take a look at his bola, as I believe it (in addition to the debuff immunity from Q) is pretty ridiculous...as I've stated before. I doubt we'll change it to a grapple as the Dehaka rework has a grapple mechanic, and I don't think it fits with the way Boros' design currently functions.

 

As an aside, however, from my experience with inhouses, you're all pretty bad at dodging bolas. He doesn't appear to be nearly as absurd as you make it seem. I find that the combination of hyperbole, anecdotal evidence, and non sequiturs in most of your balance posts makes it very difficult to take them seriously from a position of trying to make a balanced game. That's not to say that your suggestions aren't helpful in showing us which heroes need to be tuned, because they do, and I appreciate that greatly. If you could use numbers and tell me what the issues are instead of just stating it's ridiculous without really identifying why, that would be a great help to us and make us FAR more likelt to implement your suggestions.

 

e.g. One way you could say what I think you're getting at is that boros' bola cooldown at max rank is 11 seconds (I think, haven't checked as I'm about to go to sleep), reduced to 5.5 if you hit even an allied hero or creep, and with a little cooldown reduction and energy regeneration plus the fact that the game clock runs faster than realtime, a boros in a sieging position gets to throw out a bola with an approximate 2-3 second cooldown at pretty much zero risk to himself. That's problematic because it means that if a team with a boros gets ahead, it's nearly impossible to defend against them as they'll force you too far back to defend your towers while simultaneously being out of range for most initiation. Not only that, but even if Boros mispositions, he has spell immunity and debuff immunity as an added bonus, and his W deals an absurd amount of single target damage for the utility it offers. All in all, Boros' kit is just too strong because he's nigh impossible to start a fight against, but also has immense pick potential.

 

^^ That would be a post that I could respond to in a useful manner.

 

Also, I have no idea what this sentence means: "Also, the animation on this thing is frustrating to say the least. Bola is going straight, you are going at a slight angle away from it for 2 seconds boom, all of a sudden starts pulling you."

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Q

450(+200%Int) spell dmg over 4 seconds ==> 280-300(+100%Int) spell dmg over 4 seconds

 

-lets be real, this skill currently does more dmg than any other none ult skill in the game especially when built Int while also granting debuff and spell immunity. this would still be strong when built Int while not being overbearing. the early game buff to Burning blade would make up for this dmg as far as jungling goes.

bio q

720 dmg 360 int scaling

darpa q 450 damage 200% int scaling

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I chatted with Quistmann about this hero.

 

I ban it almost every game.

 

I think one of the most frustrating things is when Boros is Low LOW life, and u chase him, he can turn around an R almost any hero to death.

 

But his damage does seem a little high.

 

I would suggest a TINY nerf to his scaling and / or base damage on SS.

 

Another idea could be that SS and R cast together shoudl NOT stack. I.e. if u cast R, his SS turns off. This would result in lower combined damage of these 2 skills at once.

 

If people don't agree... whatever, Ill still ban it every inhouse :P

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I think people use both on Boros. He is usually effective with either.

 

He has never really been strong enough to autoban. But I don't like boros myself because he usually owns every hero i play. So its more of a hate ban myself. Lets go to the "real" stats to see how the hero has been doing in inhouse games:

Boros 44.10% 15 34 346 215 374

1.609302326 K/D

 

 

44.1% Win %

15 wins / 34 Games played

 

346 Kills/ 215 Deaths / 374 Assists.

 

he is ranked 8th in K/D ratio (1.6) , but actually below 50% on win %.

 

Again, I still feel more data is needed, but: Data shows so far that:

 

Boros always seems to do well himself. (He always scores well)

His team does not always seem to win though.

 

IMO Data does not suggest a Nerf/Buff.

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From experience boros is an example of a hero who requires outplay(except if you are justafrican)

 

If the boros bolas better than you dodge boros does well. If he doesnt then he struggles. Then again it only takes one guy to mess up constantly to flob your team...

 

A couple of exceptions are when for example african when played him his farming efficiency was superior and he did very well that way.

 

On top of this boros offers little in the middle of a team fight and if his ss is down he is useless.

Edited by Yaldi
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I think INT darpa should be viable

 

I did try to go straight gravity on darpa then cerebro. Darpa wasn't that strong as I thought with int build he would be. Won anyway, maybe because it was a pub. The problem was that enemies were running away and due to low attack speed I couldn't make enough stack to tick them to death as often as I wanted.

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I did try to go straight gravity on darpa then cerebro. Darpa wasn't that strong as I thought with int build he would be. Won anyway, maybe because it was a pub. The problem was that enemies were running away and due to low attack speed I couldn't make enough stack to tick them to death as often as I wanted.

 

Pyre would probably lend itself well. The attack speed plus the passive will help get them low enough for Q to finish.

 

I'm still waiting for int LZ to be viable.

Edited by Jaysi
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