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Ih Hero picks


NoWaterJustIce
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The following heroes either do either really bad or are not played ih, do they need buffs, are they just boring to play, or do they just not fit in with the current meta? what is it that makes people not want to play these heros and for them to do so poorly?

 

(ty for Sphynx for gather so much data)

 

Vorpal

- 0% win rate with only 2 games played

 

Darpa

- 0% win rate with only 2 games played

 

Grunty

- 0% win rate with 4 games played

 

Corona

- 1 game played

 

Egon

- low win rate 16% with 7 games played

 

Cyprus

- 22% win rate with 11 games played

 

Toxi

- 25% win rate with 10 games played

 

Lurker

- 0 games played

 

Maar

- 33% win rate with only 3 games played

 

I dont have the answers but i would like to know the communities opinion on why some of these heroes have either such low win rates or are played so seldom. as opposed to some of following heros.

 

Cain

- 43 games played

 

Null

-34 game played

 

Boros

-26 games played

 

Why are these heroes played so much? do they need nerfs or are they just more fun to play?

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Not played much:

 

Vorpal: Pretty boring hero as is. Somewhat of an all-around type hero but someone else does everything better.

 

Darpa: Nerfed to shap by virtue of being too strong for a long time. The delayed auto-attack is also HUGE for darpa because he relies on applying vendetta stacks.

 

Grunty: People are bad at him from what I've seen. I think he's in a decent place.

 

Corona: Nobody can play him well and he was autobanned for a long time so not a ton of games.

 

Egon: not sure since the rework, haven't seen him. Healers just aren't too meta right now aside from erekul and yig but they're for other reasons. Kura's death mask is too hard of a counter imo.

 

Cyprus: Dumb hero so nerfed a lot, cast time on ult was a massive power drop. We have some changed coming out before long that should help with this.

 

Toxi: Also a dumb hero so also nerfed a lot. I'll probably take a look at this now that you mention it.

 

Lurker: too immobile and vulnerable to be easily played in an inhouse setting.

 

Lots of play:

 

Cain: Guarantees silly damage even when tanky because of w doing current hp (I'm against that change from a while back). Also an aoe stun.

 

Null: A good null is scary, but a god-awful null is still useful. Just straight up too much utility. I'm thinking of lower base MS and changing the passive because it's also just stupid.

 

Boros: Has a pull and debuff immunity, which are in my opinion the two strongest abilities in the game at present. Combine that with near-invulnerability from his ult, and a powerful damage steroid. I feel like he's just a strong hero that isn't quite strong enough to be permabanned like a lot of others.

 

We should also try to keep track of bans. I find that to be an important stat as well.

Edited by Aellectris
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Most of those just require some skill and dedication that a small community just doesn't have for these heroes. I have seen almost all of them be viable and work fine.

 

Vorpal's kit has problems. Go play him in a couple games to see how he feels

 

The new egon is actually very strong from the few games i played with and against

 

Not sure how many people still try to play him as an auto attack carry but int toxi is much stronger. You could try to change him up to have better carry potential i guess.

 

For cain it's the stun while being a tanky dps hero. Changing his ult to rely more on his weap damage was good. So he can't just go all tank or speed while still being good at everything.

 

Boros it's most likely bola, change to a grapple is my suggestion, or at the very least make it no halve cd if you hit a creep, like come on, that ones ez

 

Null as aoe stun, damage, and force fields all with good range, not op just one of those designs that is always useful

 

the others just don't have the people to play them, and maybe some balance issues, i would suggest not just straight out buffing them

 

Oh 1 more thing, some of those are the people playing them. There are some not so skilled people who play them like axtri playing darpa and rushing foe into arcbound.

Edited by Dresden
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The following heroes either do either really bad or are not played ih, do they need buffs, are they just boring to play, or do they just not fit in with the current meta? what is it that makes people not want to play these heros and for them to do so poorly?

 

(ty for Sphynx for gather so much data)

 

Vorpal

- 0% win rate with only 2 games played

 

 

Darpa

- 0% win rate with only 2 games played

 

Grunty

- 0% win rate with 4 games played

 

Corona

- 1 game played

 

Egon

- low win rate 16% with 7 games played

 

Cyprus

- 22% win rate with 11 games played

 

Toxi

- 25% win rate with 10 games played

 

Lurker

- 0 games played

 

Maar

- 33% win rate with only 3 games played

 

I dont have the answers but i would like to know the communities opinion on why some of these heroes have either such low win rates or are played so seldom. as opposed to some of following heros.

 

Cain

- 43 games played

 

Null

-34 game played

 

Boros

-26 games played

 

Why are these heroes played so much? do they need nerfs or are they just more fun to play?

 

Have to play with the new altered Vorpal. I suggested ORB regen as a main problem for him. He is not viable as a tank under the current ORB regen system. Rev recently made some changes to possibly fix this. When he goes all WPN damage or INT, he again can only BURST damage and then has to retreat. Again his orbs are an issue. Overall I think he is 2 squishy under the two viable ways to play him. Orbs are a problem on the hero.

 

Darpa is just very weak. Base Damage buff required. Its either that or NO good player wants to play him, which i would find perplexing. He must be weak right? I dont know, i dont play him.

 

Grunty - Statistical Anomoly, hero is fine, and still strong.

 

Corona - Very hard to balance this hero. Extremely strong (autobanned) nerfed to being too weak to play. Hero concept or balance flawed currently. Can he be buffed just enough to be acceptable without becoming OP? We havent figured that out yet.

 

Egon - Seems strong enough right now. I dont like the concept of healing a hero helps to heal that hero later in the game. seems like a strange concept tome.

 

Cyprus - Used to just erase heroes from the map. Nearly uncounterable. Added a channel time to ult. NO one plays him. Rev removed the channel time yesterday and carried the game with 28 kills. I feel maybe HALF the channel time instead of no channel time might be required to balance the hero.

 

Toxi - Nice slowing ability. But pretty weak hero. Always thought the base damage was off on this hero. Yes the slow can still work, but mostly only in the hands of a hardcore expert. Just way better DPS heroes to select from. Base damage increase could make Toxi much more scary.

This hero i think is only SLIGHTLY UP. 3 of those loses are me, 2 of those games I carried with Toxi and still lost (16-3; 15-4). But doing that with Toxi is very hard and requires the right team. On his own, he is pretty vulnerable. His lose rate is simply unlucky though. (Stronger than darpa, weaker than warfield axiom)

 

Lurker- Just a strange freaking hero. No one plays it because of how exposed it is to pulls. Ironically we could buff his damage to even out for that. But its very hard to balance this hero without breaking it. Its a super strange hero. And thus is mostly just not played. I would have no idea how to fix it. Increase range on his Stun while burrowed to stop people from pulling him maybe

 

Maar - Has high damage and utility. Extremely squishy. Mostly high skill cap. Ive seen the hero played dominantly in pubs. Inhouse not so much. I do not know enough about the hero to comment, except that no one currently plays this hero except Revision occassionally

 

Cain - Tanky DPS with a Stun. EASILY highest played hero in the game right now. Does not always dominate though.

 

Null - Great long range abilities. One of the best supports in the game. As mentioned before, even a bad null is useful for the team.

 

Boros. - I hate this hero. I ban it every game i captain. Its Bola is VERY easy to hit if u dodge creeps. Does the bola size increase near the end of his pull? He has 2 invulnerability spells. He is just played very well by almost half the inhousers. Almost everyone is an expert at Boros. He is probably on the cusp of autoban. But not quite there. So never was. He is probably played in EVERY game he is not banned in. I know since i am sure i ban him every game. I would love to see his Bola nerfed such as Dresden's suggestion, CDx2 time if u hit a creep. or decrease the size of bola near end of his range. I think the BOLA is the key item. Its a great pull on a DPS hero. No other DPS has that talent that i can think of (Axiom's is an ULT, so barely counts).

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also one hero not asked about: UNIX

 

i also ban unix in almost every game i play. this is because his permanent cloak costs the team over the course of the game 1000's in wards, TS, and scans

 

no other hero is that hard to counter in the game

 

this means your team is hampered by simply having to play vs a unix at all.

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also one hero not asked about: UNIX

 

i also ban unix in almost every game i play. this is because his permanent cloak costs the team over the course of the game 1000's in wards, TS, and scans

 

no other hero is that hard to counter in the game

 

this means your team is hampered by simply having to play vs a unix at all.

 

The solution to this is that rancor needs to be able to permacloak again to make unix less unique. Bring back the invisible mobile sentry ward :D

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Maar and grunty are fine, or at least in a good enough spot to not focus on right now.

 

Corona i have no idea, the thing is always auto banned and when it's played it's either the best players playing it or it has an extremely easy mid match up. 1 game i went kuradel mid and destroyed corona, hero was useless all game. Just need more games with it with people trying to counter it, build spell resist, and not group up.

 

If you guys still think toxi is weak try out int toxi, i know whale and i have had great success with it before

 

Don't base cyprus balance after 1 game of rev playing him after no one playing cyprus in forever. You have things to consider like was his lane very easy, were there lots of squishy heroes to kill, did they get any spell resist or was that team just not that good?

 

I don't think darpa is terribly weak at the moment, just outshined by other stuff so don't over buff him. Maybe bring back the speed boost after jumping to make him more of a chasing hero or able to jump in 2 shot a squishy and run away real fast.

 

Lurker is kind of ok atm. He is just a very niche hero. I bet if you nerf or change bola you could see a lot more of him.

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Lurker- Just a strange freaking hero. No one plays it because of how exposed it is to pulls. Ironically we could buff his damage to even out for that. But its very hard to balance this hero without breaking it. Its a super strange hero. And thus is mostly just not played. I would have no idea how to fix it. Increase range on his Stun while burrowed to stop people from pulling him maybe

 

 

Rlly? No one? (I wonder why.........)

 

Lurker require a lot of skill to do well. He is vulnerable to too many things (ward, cc, pull, silence, stun). In order to do well, lurker needs farm and good position. With omniscience change from regular to TS wards made lurker much more vulnerable than before. With whale nerf his mobility from w makes him really hard to fit into team compositions.

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I think we need to nerf revision

 

I was thinking the same thing. Let's put handicaps on the best players. Like 5% increased CDs, decreased resists, decreased damage etc. Oh, and like a .5 second delay on all commands. That'd help Hyly and myself I think.

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What about good old tank

Shadow

His Q dmg was nerfed without getting compensation from somewhere else. When I have to fight nova I have to retreat during early/mid game which should be like that. Meele heroes should deal more dmg than range because they are very vulnerable to attacks when attacking. His brother boros has 450 spell dmg + 250% int on lvl 4 spellstorm and spellimunnity and debuff immunity.

W is shap. Doesn't have real impact. Was probably nerfed due to rory shadow vortex combo which is silly. I have the feeling that the slow on enemies starts ticking when they enter the vortex not when they espace it. Acceleration when going out of the vortex is kinda weird, not strong enough when I can barely catch anyone running away.

That hero is played just to backdoor, he is rarely used in teamfights. Can't do like come from the behind and start raping the int as good as before.

 

Garamond.

From a long time I have problems carrying the pubs with this hero. He feels like he is not strong enough on lvl 7 or 6 to do full combo and killsomeone. pfff ulti after nerfs should spawn like 5-6 SCV's on lvl 2 and 5-7 on lvl 3 to compensate for the nerfs.

 

Darpa.

Well he is hard to play he requires high skill cap and his silence is very usefull but due to changes to his R he is not a viable chasing, jumping from around option anymore. He can transport himself close to the enemy but not chase him that well unless he wants to faceplant and die. His range is not strong enough for him and compared to nova he is not shoting fast enough. Compared to ladder version of reaper he is slow and bulky now.

His ultimate is not like a viable chaser anymore it is just more of a like jump up&down cliffs and it is slow much much too slow. Before it was a surprize where darapa will jump to, now 2 year old wouldn't be suprized at all.

 

 

Edit.

As I remember it the few old meele carries had their role on the map.

Nova was raw damage in the teamfight, leave her unattended you will find your team out of alive players period.

Darpa utility and mobility and overhalf half-raw nova damage.

Shadow he was soaring through the entire map due to mobility, you always had to be on your toes when he wasn't showing. Was he behind your ranks awaiting to snipe support or gearing to pushing bottom? Or maybe he had switched to top?

Boros pull and melt enemies.

Zeratul swap and obliterate any enemy.

 

Now the border between the roles has been diminishing.

Edited by Francuz
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That hero is played just to backdoor, he is rarely used in teamfights. Can't do like come from the behind and start raping the int as good as before.

 

This is so true, shadow might have a good number of wins but he is always split pushing to victory, i am surprised Rev doesn't play him. I remember when shadow had a 66% win ratio but had the second lowest k/d only above medic. How does a melee carry/assassin not have a high k/d? Something should probably be changed here. Make towers harder to take down solo, make shadows Q like the one in RoA with 3 charges but weaker so he has more movement in team fights, or something to not make him the split push hero with 4 turtle heroes.

Edited by Dresden
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This is so true, shadow might have a good number of wins but he is always split pushing to victory, i am surprised Rev doesn't play him. I remember when shadow had a 66% win ratio but had the second lowest k/d only above medic. How does a melee carry/assassin not have a high k/d? Something should probably be changed here. Make towers harder to take down solo, make shadows Q like the one in RoA with 3 charges but weaker so he has more movement in team fights, or something to not make him the split push hero with 4 turtle heroes.

 

I'm pretty sure Rev did play him a decent amount in IH a few months ago.

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Or just increse stun duration as before, grunty rocket isnt easy to hit considering it also hits creeps, not sure why was it nerfed anyway

 

They felt it was too much reward for something that was pretty luck based. Durations got pretty long at distances you couldn't say you skillfully hit. I believe that was Eckos time and reasoning, though maybe it was highdrater. Like others have said, he's still a good hero, just need the players on him. Need savior and crazy soldier to come back and teach us lol.

 

In regards to reducing cd on heroes with successful pulls, they are all considered very strong heroes. Coincidence? I still don't know if I agree with the philosophy, seems snowbally to me, although changing boros to heroes only would help.

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Haha, that was just respond to Anax post, cuz I feel this change would be more interesting. Grunty is still rly strong in right hands, and if you dont pick him vs like 3+ heroes that counter him.

 

Edit: You are talking like its 100% based on luck, which I dont agree with, for me early game its like 80% based on how much stupid enemy is and 20% ur skill, or as u call it luck.

Edited by ZERATUL
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