Jump to content

Direction of AOS?


zazzn
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have to give applauds to ecko and whale.

 

First for ecko for giving up his baby a while ago, (not easy we know) but at the same time for Whale for taking over development of the game.

 

AOS is pretty much the only game I play consistently now and it's amazing to load up an old version of the game still online and see how far it's really come. The question I have is what is the direction?

 

Whale, you have made some amazing changes and balanced out the game quite a lot however, you've also raised the skill cap which is OK but also increased the learning curve because of this. AOS is generally an Arcade game, meaning most players are just causal, and there are some regulars but the IH community is only about 10-20% of the community, and the majority leave pretty quickly for DOTA 2 or LOL.

 

One thing I think AOS future development should consider is moving towards making the game more causal player friendly. Hero's is stupid easy you can pick it up and play pretty well your first game, you don't need to know the items, you don't need to deny ect.

 

I'm not saying AOS should copy this model, but I think it should certainly focus on UN complicating and make the game more noob friendly as we have lost alot of players to heroes and other mobas.

 

The glory days of AOS are unfortunately gone. While I love the game, it's really hard to explain to new players how to play and what to buy... Makes for a horrid pub experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ then whale turned around and made a bunch of passives actives...Point is if you believe that this game is easy to pick up I'd say there are virtually everyone in pub that would say otherwise.

 

I play the game regularly, but honestly, the rate that we lose players to gain new ones sucks, from being on the top 10 list to not even showing up anymore and having to go to EU just get a pub really sucks, and since I've invested all this time in this game and understand and know the mechanics / sc2 interface i'm reluctant to play other games.

 

I've played LOL/DOTA 2/Heros.... LOL was too involved to be casual i felt, DOTA same, but had more time invested there but still don't really have a clue what all the items do. Heros, really easy to pick up, just did not find it fun at all because it was too easy, and kind of mindless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LoL is just an all-around better game...... as it should be considering the difference in man-hours spent on it and AoS. AoS had realistically one thing that set it apart: it had a really fast pace. The map was pretty small, most heroes could oneshot each other in a second, and one good player could easily destroy 5 noobs. Now.... it's a victim of its own evolution. If you look at an inhouse from before and compare it to one now..... there will be less kills, and less player v player...... back in v3 I would pick drake and say flob the minions, flob towers, flob neutrals, I will just roam lanes and kill heroes with Q's from fog of war and magnitudes that two shot tanks. Not doable any more. Perhaps that's what you call balance.... but I didn't want balance ... if I wanted balance I would go play league. With constant nerfs to assassins, burst spellcasters, etc.... the pace slowed down, and this became League with slightly prettier graphic at the cost of half the people lagging late game (and some early on too), rqers, less heroes and a lower average skill level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LoL is just an all-around better game...... as it should be considering the difference in man-hours spent on it and AoS. AoS had realistically one thing that set it apart: it had a really fast pace. The map was pretty small, most heroes could oneshot each other in a second, and one good player could easily destroy 5 noobs. Now.... it's a victim of its own evolution. If you look at an inhouse from before and compare it to one now..... there will be less kills, and less player v player...... back in v3 I would pick drake and say flob the minions, flob towers, flob neutrals, I will just roam lanes and kill heroes with Q's from fog of war and magnitudes that two shot tanks. Not doable any more. Perhaps that's what you call balance.... but I didn't want balance ... if I wanted balance I would go play league. With constant nerfs to assassins, burst spellcasters, etc.... the pace slowed down, and this became League with slightly prettier graphic at the cost of half the people lagging late game (and some early on too), rqers, less heroes and a lower average skill level.

 

Early game ganking and roaming is still totally do-able. Have u seen a competent player on rancor, brine, penthos, crackling, or zera? I think the last rancor game I played I had 2 cs until 20 minutes in, and a 7-0-22 score.

 

Design direction atm is just to ease the game into a slow gnite (which its been in the middle of for half a year now). Sc2 is dead and there is definitely not room for a serious moba on it. I'll continue updating and working at a leisurely pace (expect minor weekly patches and maybe a hero a month or something like that), and people who enjoy chatting, playing, or suggestion changes/designs are free to continue doing so - that won't change. But I probably won't be running around grabbing people for beta tests and inhouses or setting up tournaments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I wanted balance I would go play league. With constant nerfs to assassins, burst spellcasters, etc.... the pace slowed down, and this became League with slightly prettier graphic at the cost of half the people lagging late game (and some early on too), rqers, less heroes and a lower average skill level.

This is a bit too dramatic (e.g. half people lagging), but I agree that the game is less fun now, and I know many people who would agree with this too. If people want balance, they move on to play LoL/Dota2. You cant compete with Toyota cars, if you're selling self made bikes. The more you copy LoL, the easier it is for people to move on and play in LoL. Isnt that obvious? You can copy this and that, but at the end it is still going to be a pretty undeveloped LOL. Why play copy, when you can play original? Yes, sc2 is less and less popular, and ecko, Whale, or anyone cant change that trend. But they kept moving towards the direction of pushing people away too. Changing versions/pace/most heroes was never a good idea. Changing maps is never good. Removing public favorite heroes cant be a good idea. Making the game easier to switch to a huge rival cant be a good idea. Making the game more complex, when there's less players cant be a good idea. This game was operated by engineers rather than by strategic people. Engineers that doesn't care about community's opinion, that dont try to look ahead, or that would rather comlicate than simplify just because it is more fun for an engineer. And then there's no tutorials, no mods, no rankings, no draft mode etc. Who needs that if it is fun to change this many items, add that many new heroes, etc etc etc. Learning curve is higher? L2P suckers.

Edited by mynhauzen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I take offense to that mate.

 

I don't know where the whole "copying LoL" comes from, and would love to have an actual debate where people list things I've done that they thing are copying league, and compare it to everything else I've done.

 

In your analogy to cars and bikes, however, I don't intend on making Marine Arena. Sotis/AoS started out as a serious moba, still is a serious moba, and I think it would be silly to turn it into Hero Attack or something like that. That would be so utterly disrespectful to the game and everyone who played and enjoyed it.

 

And the not listening to players and community. U wot. Im on the forums and mumble daily, chatting with players and looking for suggestions and debates. Many changes are implemented simply because a player comes up to me with a compelling argument.

 

For tutorials - theres not much I can do about that. I've made video spotlights on heroes before, but lately I don't have time for that.

 

Admins have basic mod powers in game (kick, take down ID) - but obviously I can't go giving this power away willy nilly, so there is also an auto afk kick

 

Sphynx just made a post about a ranking system.

 

SCV has been working on and off on draft mode, and I don't have the time or expertise to make it myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whale,

 

I am refering to Ecko's times. I dont play this mod for at least a year now. I've heard only good stuff about your changes. Still, I honestly dont think that anyone should bother implementing a lot of changes since Blizzard didn't do a really good job at player's retention. SC2 is simply not the most entertaining game, especially since youth now dont tend to play same game for a long period ot time. The lifecycle of a game is much lower now vs 90s.

 

Now some contructive stuff:

- have anyone did a poll in which people can provide feedback regarding a priority for the future development?

- is there a long term plan on what do you guys think should happen in this game in 1 year or in 5 years? Do you have a goal, and if you do, what is it?

- is there something that players can do to move the game higher in rankings?

- is there something that admins/devs can do to move the game higher in rankings?

- is there a reason why aeon is falling down in rankings?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Early game ganking and roaming is still totally do-able. Have u seen a competent player on rancor, brine, penthos, crackling, or zera? I think the last rancor game I played I had 2 cs until 20 minutes in, and a 7-0-22 score.

 

Design direction atm is just to ease the game into a slow gnite (which its been in the middle of for half a year now). Sc2 is dead and there is definitely not room for a serious moba on it. I'll continue updating and working at a leisurely pace (expect minor weekly patches and maybe a hero a month or something like that), and people who enjoy chatting, playing, or suggestion changes/designs are free to continue doing so - that won't change. But I probably won't be running around grabbing people for beta tests and inhouses or setting up tournaments.

 

Have you considered switching to reborn?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a bit too dramatic (e.g. half people lagging), but I agree that the game is less fun now, and I know many people who would agree with this too. If people want balance, they move on to play LoL/Dota2. You cant compete with Toyota cars, if you're selling self made bikes. The more you copy LoL, the easier it is for people to move on and play in LoL. Isnt that obvious? You can copy this and that, but at the end it is still going to be a pretty undeveloped LOL. Why play copy, when you can play original? Yes, sc2 is less and less popular, and ecko, Whale, or anyone cant change that trend. But they kept moving towards the direction of pushing people away too. Changing versions/pace/most heroes was never a good idea. Changing maps is never good. Removing public favorite heroes cant be a good idea. Making the game easier to switch to a huge rival cant be a good idea. Making the game more complex, when there's less players cant be a good idea. This game was operated by engineers rather than by strategic people. Engineers that doesn't care about community's opinion, that dont try to look ahead, or that would rather comlicate than simplify just because it is more fun for an engineer. And then there's no tutorials, no mods, no rankings, no draft mode etc. Who needs that if it is fun to change this many items, add that many new heroes, etc etc etc. Learning curve is higher? L2P suckers.

 

 

Laggers, is certainly something that is annoying. I recommended a vote kick a long time ago but people said that it would turn off players. I don't believe so, I think new players that just feed will get kicked for sure, until they learn not to do that. otherwise they get verbally lashed and they say the community sucks. If everyone is universally kicking them because they are being jackasses. It's clear, they are unwanted anyways.

 

The game is original, lol doesn't have deny's and you cant kill a 2nd tower unless the first is down, all sorts of stuff fixed since before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

reborn? as in doto? im currently in the interview process for Rito.

 

Yeah, I did mean Dota2 reborn. It crossed my mind that it would be a good way to refresh the playerbase with all the hype about it. I assume moving would be quite the effort, but I expect that in time you could do more with the reborn engine than with the sc2 editor. Perhaps if you lose interest due to your applications someone like SCV could become your Icefrog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I take offense to that mate.

 

I don't know where the whole "copying LoL" comes from, and would love to have an actual debate where people list things I've done that they thing are copying league, and compare it to everything else I've done.

 

In your analogy to cars and bikes, however, I don't intend on making Marine Arena. Sotis/AoS started out as a serious moba, still is a serious moba, and I think it would be silly to turn it into Hero Attack or something like that. That would be so utterly disrespectful to the game and everyone who played and enjoyed it.

 

And the not listening to players and community. U wot. Im on the forums and mumble daily, chatting with players and looking for suggestions and debates. Many changes are implemented simply because a player comes up to me with a compelling argument.

 

For tutorials - theres not much I can do about that. I've made video spotlights on heroes before, but lately I don't have time for that.

 

Admins have basic mod powers in game (kick, take down ID) - but obviously I can't go giving this power away willy nilly, so there is also an auto afk kick

 

Sphynx just made a post about a ranking system.

 

SCV has been working on and off on draft mode, and I don't have the time or expertise to make it myself.

for what it's worth, I like and appreciate the changes Whale has implemented in the game as a whole, even if I don't agree with all of them.

 

Devs don't get enough credit for their work IMO while they get plenty of complaints. I mean, is a simple "thank you for your work" so hard?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I did mean Dota2 reborn. It crossed my mind that it would be a good way to refresh the playerbase with all the hype about it. I assume moving would be quite the effort, but I expect that in time you could do more with the reborn engine than with the sc2 editor. Perhaps if you lose interest due to your applications someone like SCV could become your Icefrog.

 

I don't think I will have the time to make this kind of transition by myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

This is a bit too dramatic (e.g. half people lagging), but I agree that the game is less fun now, and I know many people who would agree with this too. If people want balance, they move on to play LoL/Dota2. You cant compete with Toyota cars, if you're selling self made bikes. The more you copy LoL, the easier it is for people to move on and play in LoL. Isnt that obvious? You can copy this and that, but at the end it is still going to be a pretty undeveloped LOL. Why play copy, when you can play original? Yes, sc2 is less and less popular, and ecko, Whale, or anyone cant change that trend. But they kept moving towards the direction of pushing people away too. Changing versions/pace/most heroes was never a good idea. Changing maps is never good. Removing public favorite heroes cant be a good idea. Making the game easier to switch to a huge rival cant be a good idea. Making the game more complex, when there's less players cant be a good idea. This game was operated by engineers rather than by strategic people. Engineers that doesn't care about community's opinion, that dont try to look ahead, or that would rather comlicate than simplify just because it is more fun for an engineer. And then there's no tutorials, no mods, no rankings, no draft mode etc. Who needs that if it is fun to change this many items, add that many new heroes, etc etc etc. Learning curve is higher? L2P suckers.

 

I find your ignorance... Amusing. While I agree that the only way for an 'indie' moba to survive is to differentiate from DotA and LoL rather than to imitate them (HoN couldn't compete with DotA as it catered to the same people and Icefrog is a more accomplished dev than Guinsoo), I don't see how not developing a game is the proper application of differentiation.

 

Moreover, the main issue AoS faced even as a niche game is that it's a custom map rather than a stand alone game and that it suffered from the limitations of the sc2 editor and the decreasing popularity of sc2. Which is why I think that moving to reborn would solve a lot of the problems of a dwindling community. That said, I know nothing of the potential limitations of the reborn engine and couldn't code to save my life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find your ignorance... Amusing. While I agree that the only way for an 'indie' moba to survive is to differentiate from DotA and LoL rather than to imitate them (HoN couldn't compete with DotA as it catered to the same people and Icefrog is a more accomplished dev than Guinsoo), I don't see how not developing a game is the proper application of differentiation.

 

 

HoN failed for numerous other reasons than being a dota clone bruh. I was there when first beta was being sent out. Server stability issues for months, extremly flashy animations to the point where es and sk ult would clog entire screen and you couldnt see shap and people abusing the shap out the mmr system in party q. Took too long for devs to fix that and people who they tried to steal went back to garena. Gameplay wise it was better than daughter tho because of the client.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HoN failed for numerous other reasons than being a dota clone bruh. I was there when first beta was being sent out. Server stability issues for months, extremly flashy animations to the point where es and sk ult would clog entire screen and you couldnt see shap and people abusing the shap out the mmr system in party q. Took too long for devs to fix that and people who they tried to steal went back to garena. Gameplay wise it was better than daughter tho because of the client.

 

iirc other reasons included how ridiculously toxic some of the devs themselves were, and the fact that they switched to free to play which upset a lot of players who had paid for accounts, with overpowered new releases that could only be bought with money for the first month or so. also damn that game in general was crazy toxic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...