Teach me to Draft!

[taznkid]

Recently any time I captain in a In-House, my team gets one sidedly creamed.

 

So either I've been really unlucky, or I just really suck at drafting.

 

I can't do anything about the former, so I'm trying to fix the latter.

 

Any sort of detailed guide, mock draft, advice, w/e is most appreciated, particularly, if you have actually seen me draft.

[Ryuuk]

wasnt there a post of this by ginosaji? i think it was good

[Skydie]

Alt tab and fake being AFK. Works for 95% of EU players.

[Yaldi]

http://www.aeonofstorms.com/index.php?/topic/1530-drafting-guide-by-shablagoo/

[Adamantium]

http://www.aeonofsto...e-by-shablagoo/

His guide is very detailed. Just keep in mind that it was written a while back so the strongest heroes are different. You should also consider how your lanes impact boss control since there are currently 2 bosses to worry about throughout the game.

[ZERATUL]

I suggest that you read post from gino.

Maybe try to give me 1 example of ur draft and enemys so I can tell u whats wrong. You most likely dont pay attention to what comp ur building or how to counter enemy and just picking, so called OP heroes without any synergy

Edited March 30, 2015 by ZERATUL

[Yaldi]

 

His guide is very detailed. Just keep in mind that it was written a while back so the strongest heroes are different. You should also consider how your lanes impact boss control since there are currently 2 bosses to worry about throughout the game.

I agree but it has stood the test of time remarkably

[Adamantium]

I agree but it has stood the test of time remarkably

 

I agree

[NoWaterJustIce]

I agree

 

I agree

[Yaldi]

 

 

I agree

Your agreement is agreeable...

[NoWaterJustIce]

If someone who was more knowledgeable in current hero strengths wanted to make a list of current heros, their roles, and what tier they are in, it would be helpful to some of us who are less good at drafting. that in combination to shabs guide could let almost anyone draft instead of just the same 4-5 people

 

^^CHALLENGE EXTENDED^^

[Jaysi]

If someone who was more knowledgeable in current hero strengths wanted to make a list of current heros, their roles, and what tier they are in, it would be helpful to some of us who are less good at drafting. that in combination to shabs guide could let almost anyone draft instead of just the same 4-5 people

 

^^CHALLENGE EXTENDED^^

 

Though that might just further stagnate the meta. But I guess as long as seasoned captains/players are willing to shake up the meta with a tier 3 or 4 hero...

[Adamantium]

Just because a hero isn't picked or banned every game doesn't mean its weak though.

Edited March 30, 2015 by AtomiK

[Destroyer]

Narud and Immo are the only heroes that I can't see a reason to pick. Every other hero can be useful in the right comp.

[Spooky]

You most likely dont pay attention to what comp ur building or how to counter enemy and just picking, so called OP heroes without any synergy

Actually there are many former inhousers who sometimes doesn't understand synergy or what counters what. Let me give simple example how bad understanding can shift entire meta. Some time ago Tosh was considered as very strong pick. Very often he was banned or first picked, etc. Mainly because he is extremely strong in solo lane, double lane and he can build supportive items without loosing potential to doing damage. So picking him first opens many possibilities for draft. However later Balrog become more popular and at that time he was much stronger than he is now. So what happened is Balrog and Tosh found each other in opposed teams very often and Balrog team almost always was winning. Not only because he was so strong those days, but also because Rog is pretty good counter to Tosh. In effect people stopped playing Tosh, they started considering him weak. And during next months Tosh was barely picked or banned in inhouses, while there was literally no change to him in patches. Later Rog got auto-banned and Tosh still wasn't picked at all. Now he is picked more often again. Probably because I forced that pick one day and because John started to playing AoS again. Still there are many heroes Tosh is very weak against (Kerri, Dustin, anything what can one-shot all his spectres from quite long range or heroes with debuff immunity like Rog, LZ or Boros).

 

There is some common knowledge around AoS meta. Most of the players are trying to stick to it without questioning. And the thing is that common knowledge sometimes is flawed which may end up with lost game (like in Rog vs Tosh case). And even if end up with good composition with good synergy u may loose the game if players in your team can't utilize specific heroes well. So lost game is not only because of bad draft. I have no idea how to teach someone how to draft well. I don't know what to draft very often as well. But there are some things which are worth to consider and remember:

 

1) Balanced team comp:

- 1 tank/initiator (hero in front to suck up damage, should carry Chilling)

- 1 support (hero behind the team, basically carrier of Kassia Crystal, Spell Buffer, Korhal and whatever team needs)

- 1 squishy hard carry

- 1 more tanky secondary carry, good if provides some kind of CC as well (usually he carry CoA for his team)

- 1 burst damage hero (usually mid)

 

2) Every team should has:

- Enough damage output - if u get more than 2 heroes with low damage output u may have problems late game. There are also some heroes which damage is strong early game and weak late game (Bio, Cain, Vorpal, Khyrak and so on) so its better not end with those two in the same team. Even if u have team with great control, a lot of CC then if u can't go through their hit points u wont win teamfight. Besides u need at least one hero with strong dps build around crits or armor penetration. Without it u also may have problems with damage output late game.

- AoE spell damage - used correctly helps winning teamfights a lot. Well, it doesn't have to be AoE, but it clearly better then single point spell damage. Team without spell damage may have hard time dealing with enemy hard carry

- Initiation - strong initiation gives u control on teamfight. Having good initiation is more important than having good tank. Of course there has to be damage following initiation. In other hand what is the point of the strongest hard carry - Kerrigan, if there is weak initiation in team?

- Jungler - hero who can farm in jungle and therefore split experience and minerals between more heroes. Jungler also should have good ganking skills

- CC - crowd control. U need heroes which can provides some stuns, slows, silence. Without it u have no control on teamfight

 

3) Its good if team has:

- Pushing power - especially important in comps with many snowbally heroes which are strong early-mid game. Getting early towers provides a lot of minerals for entire team and map control

- Mobile hard/secondary carry - it opens possibility for safe split push

- Strong solo off laner - hero which can farm in hard lane even against 2 enemy heroes. It opens options for double easy lane which usually is won lane because of tower proximity.

- Counter initiation - for example Rog screetch can counter initiate Jackson ultimate and silence (of course if he not get caught by it in first place), but it can't work as initiation tool. Good initiation can be also considered as counter initiation - Jackson again (his ulti after Micro tossed your ally and enemies are more focused gathering around your ally then Jackson coming close)

 

So now if u can pick heroes which can check in many points listed above u should end up with strong composition. Especially if u pick heroes which can counter enemy heroes. But trying to make such list of counters would take too much time. I will just list few heroes which are strong no matter what:

- LZ - one of the best tanky/support hero with some basic initiation skills.

- Raynor - OP Raiders ftw.

- Cow - the strongest AoE right now

- Vergil - another strong AoE and can solo hard lane.

- Greelus - probably the strongest supportive AoE burst damage hero

Edited March 30, 2015 by Spooky

[taznkid]

Well I'm not brain dead when I'm drafting...of course I consider counters and synergy.

 

For example, I've drafted Akasha Rory because its powerful, and denied possible Cow Jackson combos.

 

I can't remember any drafts off the top of my head...I'll see what I can do about getting an example.

 

I understand the mechanics of drafting...but from my personal opinion, I think my issue is that I don't fully understand hero counters.

Edited March 30, 2015 by taznkid

[Leviathan]

Im still thinking a lot of draft or comps just get rekt by the unbalance players

[Destroyer]

Yea you have to take into account what your team can play. Thats why I always ask for requests when I'm captain, I would prefer to draft around what my team can/wants to play rather then pick some comp then have no one able to play it well. Its also just more fun when everyone is playing a hero they like.

[BestPlayer]

Yea you have to take into account what your team can play. Thats why I always ask for requests when I'm captain, I would prefer to draft around what my team can/wants to play rather then pick some comp then have no one able to play it well. Its also just more fun when everyone is playing a hero they like.

 

Then they must learn.

 

Assigning someone a "support" hero, or indeed simply an "easy" hero, because they are either new to inhouse or simply below-average skillwise is one thing - limiting your draft because of overall lack of player skill/insistence on certain roles is totally pathetic, particularly given the small hero pool of AoS.

 

Stop catering to the lowest common denominator. People have been in-or-about the inhouse scene for literally years and still say inane shap like "I can't play tanks" or "I only carry". It is completely ridiculous.

 

As a captain you should draft to the benefit of your team, but if you are in a position where you have to handicap your composition, then you are either playing with complete idiots or need to be more assertive. Tell them to stfu and play the hero you picked for them. You might take flak if the game goes bad, as you're the captain and potentially assigned people heroes they aren't super awesome with, but who gives a flob? Then they need to man up.

 

You'll have to excuse the following aside, but I just want to say it, and believe me when I say I'm smiling as I write:

I particularly fondly remember the countless times in the past where I've intentionally put players otherwise only jungling(when all ranged AA were jungle) or playing retarded spam-heroes mid/safe on a support/tank/offlane. It didn't matter whether we won or lost, sometimes people need to learn they need to be quiet and realise even if other idiots firstpick them, they still have only a faint grasp of what the game is really about, outside of mindless clicking, playing heroes with either massive (AoE) nukes or free-escapes, i.e. requiring less skill.

 

That isn't particularly relevant to my point above though :--)

Edited March 31, 2015 by Soedenone

[EterNity]

Two way you can do this.

 

1. Follow current META, pick OP hero, ban OP hero that you don't get to pick or not want to be up against.

 

2. Draft like a madman that throw META out of window, only pick new hero or recently buffed hero. You either going to win big or it becomes a troll game. (Whale's style of draft)

[taznkid]

Then they must learn.

 

Assigning someone a "support" hero, or indeed simply an "easy" hero, because they are either new to inhouse or simply below-average skillwise is one thing - limiting your draft because of overall lack of player skill/insistence on certain roles is totally pathetic, particularly given the small hero pool of AoS.

 

Stop catering to the lowest common denominator. People have been in-or-about the inhouse scene for literally years and still say inane shap like "I can't play tanks" or "I only carry". It is completely ridiculous.

 

As a captain you should draft to the benefit of your team, but if you are in a position where you have to handicap your composition, then you are either playing with complete idiots or need to be more assertive. Tell them to stfu and play the hero you picked for them. You might take flak if the game goes bad, as you're the captain and potentially assigned people heroes they aren't super awesome with, but who gives a flob? Then they need to man up.

 

You'll have to excuse the following aside, but I just want to say it, and believe me when I say I'm smiling as I write:

I particularly fondly remember the countless times in the past where I've intentionally put players otherwise only jungling(when all ranged AA were jungle) or playing retarded spam-heroes mid/safe on a support/tank/offlane. It didn't matter whether we won or lost, sometimes people need to learn they need to be quiet and realise even if other idiots firstpick them, they still have only a faint grasp of what the game is really about, outside of mindless clicking, playing heroes with either massive (AoE) nukes or free-escapes, i.e. requiring less skill.

 

That isn't particularly relevant to my point above though :--)

You might have a point....I off the top of my head, I think I've captained in about 5 In-Houses recently, and in about 3 of them I'm pretty sure that I lost in terms of player draft (usually did not know players).

 

I remember that in one game I needed a mid hero, but DeathMan couldn't play any sort of CC, Tank, or Support hero, only carries. The best he could do was Raynor, which was a horrible choice in the draft but....I was not going to let him play our team's hard carry, because, no offense DeathMan, but you are not exactly Tier 1 material.

[BestPlayer]

You might have a point....I off the top of my head, I think I've captained in about 5 In-Houses recently, and in about 3 of them I'm pretty sure that I lost in terms of player draft (usually did not know players).

 

I remember that in one game I needed a mid hero, but DeathMan couldn't play any sort of CC, Tank, or Support hero, only carries. The best he could do was Raynor, which was a horrible choice in the draft but....I was not going to let him play our team's hard carry, because, no offense DeathMan, but you are not exactly Tier 1 material.

 

I've captained countless inhouses over the years.

 

From the times where new players were (literally) playing ghost every single game, only to place radar towers, use nukes, occasionally snipe and try not to feed - to the much more easygoing (but also massively downgraded skill-wise, imo) player base of the current era.

 

Never have I been in a position where I picked something I didn't want - at least not outside of scrims, with retarded "clanmates", lol.

 

I often ask for suggestions. "What you guys wanna play?" and then see if it fits in my plan. If it doesn't, then it just doesn't. One of those fools could have just captained, if they wanted to make sure they got their one hero or one role.

 

Also, I don't know and therefore won't badmouth this guy "DeathMan", but that is exactly the type of thing I hate the most. That would never fly with me. "I only play carry" I would pick that guy a support hero and tell him to play it, only for saying that. People who say they "only" play support, offlane, initiator or whatever, I have a lot more respect for; and, as an aside ---- you absolutely do not need to be "tier 1 material" to play hard carry in this game. I think aside from maybe a couple of the spammy mid heroes, vergil and vorpal, aa-heroes (particularly those with escape, which is almost all of them) are the easiest heroes to play in the game.

 

You can make the argument that they are also the most important to their team, but that doesn't really change anything in my view. Good players can be on hard carries, but they certaintly don't have to be. Newbs can be on them too. Newbs can right click creep, they can farm, they can right click heroes. It is not difficult. That is why I have problems with the "I only play carries" specifically. That means they started playing the easiest heroes in pub and found out how to kill other people in pubs, and simply decided never to improve or evolve as a player. I have no respect for that.

[taznkid]

Well my issue with him playing our hard carry is that he does not know how to last hit lol

[Adamantium]

Lol I remember laning with a newer player as his support and so I was just zoning the enemy out and taking a last hit every now and then when he couldn't get it. Then I popped up tab and noticed that I had more last hits than he did.

[BestPlayer]

You have seven options:

 

1) Cut them some slack, try to be patient and explain to only attack when the creep is about to die. if this explanation is necessary, you may want to explain what denying is and how it factors into laning, too.

 

b, Throw them to the lions and simply shout at them and demand to know why the flob they don't have any farm, you did all that work to give them freefarm and they just flobed the game - or, alternatively, you can passive-aggressively throw backhanded flames at them during the game, constantly, for the same reason.

 

4st Kick them from the inhouse and ask them to get better or even to spec the game, to learn what the flob is going on in laning phase.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Soedenone