Spooky Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Like in title - Cow late game damage output is too high. He is doing too much damage in compare to other burst damage heroes. INT scaling should be lowered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Echo matrix is a dumb passive. It's either worthless or broken. Pls just replace it with something else already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkr Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Echo matrix is a dumb passive. It's either worthless or broken. Pls just replace it with something else already. I agree.But pls don't nerf cow.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZERATUL Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) As I know cow is balanced its just ppl dont know to play vs him in lane and later Edited February 3, 2015 by ZERATUL Darkr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkr Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 As I know cow is balanced its just ppl dont know to play vs him in lane and later He's hard to go vs in mid lane, because he just picks off of the enemy and then just uses w to go back to safe, and when enemy is in low health, he blocks them with q. Very hard to go vs, but simply staying ranged with him counters him a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZERATUL Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 No lol Im not saying he loses vs all heroes, but all aa ranged, raynor, null.. I cant think atm but there are few more from int, probobly some str. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
residente Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Echo matrix is a dumb passive. It's either worthless or broken. Pls just replace it with something else already. Â Just bring back 2.0 cow John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anax Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Agree with Spooky.. I still don't understand how some things are being (intentionally?) overlooked for so long. Ok so we've seen introduction of new heroes and I can acknowledge I haven't played them long enough to understand fully how awesome they are (they must be, right? :) ). Back to topic. Â Cow. burst. Lets see alternatives? Â Cyprus has the highest burst in game probably. but it's a single target, and range isnt all that great. and really needs rocks to make it happen. and is squishier and more prone to cc. Â Anthrax. First thing when i saw the ulti was - OOoh that's cool an alternative to Cow ulti!! (as it reaches across the map). Except it has a bigger AOE, everyone can see you coming 2 sec before AND you end up in the middle of it (a lot of times dead). And it does significantly lower damage (remember, cow will mostly shoot a up to 75% amp, as well as echo dmg), but leaves some decent side effects. so.. NO. Also anthrax W is like.. next to useless still. Q never does the dmg 2nd time, and E is OK. Â Cow's ulti hit's anywhere, is not TOO difficult, takes people by surprise, nice AOE, coupled with dmg amp and echo its AWESOME. and leaves a toilet that heals allies. And his overall skillset is just soo burst oriented QWER, clips. And all of that also makes him an amazing farmer/laner (as Zeratul said there are heroes that can deal with him, but that goes for any hero in lane) And as soon as cow hits lvl6 tide can change... Â Raynor.. yawn. i really dont feel like writing anything. :) Dustin.. is just fine. Don't touch :) Â Spooky, where i disagree is late game - 50% Int scaling is nowhere as good as for example cyprus (who has 100% int scaling). Midgame was always where cow was shining the most. ofc he's still a valuable contribution late game. as Doom wrote it boils down to probably reworking the hero skillset a bit and making him more challenging/ demanding. It just feels way easier to play then other int casters and more rewarding. GreenSkittles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucKiesT Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I agree cow's ulti + wall can deal massive dmg to several heroes. Â Has dustin been nerfed??? Everyone I play dustin is saying so and so do I, his ray and rockets deal less dmg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaldi Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Dustin is still very strong. You just need to farm like mad not get jumped and do lots of chip damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I know 50% scaling doesn't seem high, but u can't forget about amplification coming from travel distance which may increase scaling up to 87.5%. Almost in every game at some point Cow is able to take away around 70% of enemy carry health with one ultimate. Maybe would be OK for single target ability, but not for AoE. So definitely sth has to be done. Hero is not balanced if he is always picked over others providing same role (Dustin, Vergil). So there is a need for some damage nerf - remove travel scaling or reduce ultimate/echo scaling. Actually I think Echo is fine, since u can counter it (be spread). However u can't counter scaling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZERATUL Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Agree with Spooky.. I still don't understand how some things are being (intentionally?) overlooked for so long. Ok so we've seen introduction of new heroes and I can acknowledge I haven't played them long enough to understand fully how awesome they are (they must be, right? :) ). Back to topic.  Cow. burst. Lets see alternatives?  Cyprus has the highest burst in game probably. but it's a single target, and range isnt all that great. and really needs rocks to make it happen. and is squishier and more prone to cc. Agree but he also has a very nice poke especially late game with cerebro+ihan.  Anthrax. First thing when i saw the ulti was - OOoh that's cool an alternative to Cow ulti!! (as it reaches across the map). Except it has a bigger AOE, everyone can see you coming 2 sec before AND you end up in the middle of it (a lot of times dead). And it does significantly lower damage (remember, cow will mostly shoot a up to 75% amp, as well as echo dmg), but leaves some decent side effects. so.. NO. Also anthrax W is like.. next to useless still. Q never does the dmg 2nd time, and E is OK. Well in few last patches he was getting buffed over and over, when I played him in ih he was pretty good.  Cow's ulti hit's anywhere, is not TOO difficult, takes people by surprise, nice AOE, coupled with dmg amp and echo its AWESOME. and leaves a toilet that heals allies. And his overall skillset is just soo burst oriented QWER, clips. And all of that also makes him an amazing farmer/laner (as Zeratul said there are heroes that can deal with him, but that goes for any hero in lane) And as soon as cow hits lvl6 tide can change...Problem is 90% of time cow hits full range ult is when ppl stack like idiots when they push towers and then cow gets triple kill or more. About laning, no I dont agree, earlier on lvl 6 he was just broken, atm lvl 6 doesent change much, dmg isnt that big, also do u find it funny how nobody buys hp potions?  Raynor.. yawn. i really dont feel like writing anything. :) Dustin.. is just fine. Don't touch :) Agree dustin is fine, even on strong side, but not op  Spooky, where i disagree is late game - 50% Int scaling is nowhere as good as for example cyprus (who has 100% int scaling). Midgame was always where cow was shining the most. ofc he's still a valuable contribution late game. as Doom wrote it boils down to probably reworking the hero skillset a bit and making him more challenging/ demanding. It just feels way easier to play then other int casters and more rewarding. I know 50% scaling doesn't seem high, but u can't forget about amplification coming from travel distance which may increase scaling up to 87.5%. Almost in every game at some point Cow is able to take away around 70% of enemy carry health with one ultimate. Maybe would be OK for single target ability, but not for AoE. So definitely sth has to be done. Hero is not balanced if he is always picked over others providing same role (Dustin, Vergil). So there is a need for some damage nerf - remove travel scaling or reduce ultimate/echo scaling. Actually I think Echo is fine, since u can counter it (be spread). However u can't counter scaling. I cant remember last time when there was teamfight and cow wasnt there and just shot ult from long distance and kill everyone..When hes there ppl like to stack which should be punished, same as jax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSkittles Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 just let whale play him np. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EterNity Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 No you have to play cow against Whale and beat him many times before you can change his mind! Darkr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSkittles Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 No you have to play cow against Whale and beat him many times before you can change his mind! nope will be too much nerf he cant play cow anyway shouls nerf him enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 You'll complain less about cow being op when you stop playing poorly. Revision 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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