ling is underpowered now.

[HarryHootie]

He doesnt even do as much damage in the past when his damage type got changed into a physical burst, he is so easy to cc and is squishy and cant even farm well

[SayMyName]

Yo, you liked this little nuke ferrari, dont you?

 

Something between lycan and ursa in terms of gg haste + gg burst.

[Doom]

His level 1 ultimate is probably the worst in the game excluding Nova and Vorpal (if you are building AA, for insane jav damage, and just haven't the orbs to spare to use it)

[SayMyName]

Having huge mobility is strong in the moba (as a carry). But it depends overall on entire kit of the hero.

 

If the nova ult is still the same (web), then her ult is not weak at all.

 

 

 

Problem with high mobility is (on a carry)- That if carry have high dmg, enough tankiness he can snowball really high (if he is ahead or just his values give him that naturally- skillset, possible items n game). If not high mobility is ok or sometimes even useless.

 

Most moba in terms of balance are getting away from carries getting ez triple , quadro, penta kills.

 

To prevent that, it can be balanced out by having items in game that allow invulnerability for certain amount of time that allow kiting, stall and resetting the teamfight (esp on weak supports). Example item like: lockbox, own blinks, impact dials, sword breakers, hard cc.

 

Thing is, lockbox got really expensive from what i know (if know correctly, not sure). And ling does dmg mainly from skills/spells combo and there is no item (aside from very expensive lockbox for very short amount of duration) to prevent that- no magic immunity item, no split confuse misdirection item, block skill/spell item etc etc. Together with fast paced AoS, everything happening so fast its even hard for those things to be reliable (together with lag issues).

 

Entire mechanics of the game and design of the ling is making the hero hard to balance out.

Edited January 10, 2015 by SayMyName

[HarryHootie]

increase damage please, or replace him with RoA ling

[residente]

I've still nuked down in 3 shots any retard building glass cannon heroes in pubs and they only weak thing I've felt is as other said that level 1 ultimate.

[HarryHootie]

its really all he does, cyprus can do a better job, i dont see lings full potential anywhere maybe late game where he has a ton of physical burst? ling maybe par with cyprus but cyprus does more damage than ling

[EterNity]

It is OK to have a weak Ult if the hero overall makes up for it.

 

This is very common in MOBA games. Not every Ult has to be strong like all other hero (We will then turn into League)

[Doom]

If the nova ult is still the same (web), then her ult is not weak at all.

 

Her ult at level 3 is powerful indeed, you can keep a hero like shadow off of your ass for a decent time. But level 1's duration make it beyond worthless. If at level 3 you could ult a shadow, e to a safe distance and attack his still bound ass, as much as 3 times, at level 1 he walks or shades, and the webs effect only brings him back 1 unit before it expires. Better than nothing, but overall the mobility restriction it essentially is equal to about a 1 sec 50% movement slow that a hero that doesn't survive for very long in melee range has to cast from melee range....... If the AA items in this game were not as effective (leech in particular giving dps more pseudo-health than the toughest tank) people would demand that the ult was like 6 unit cast range. But since AA items are so broken, it makes sense that darpa's one minute blink, nova's suicide web (it costs you your life to use it offensively on someone, and you still will likely die if enemy initiated on you so well that you are in range of them) and ling's ultimate, which is worse than lz's lvl 2 Q. Don't get me wrong, it would be ridiculous if what they had was a balanced dps hero equivalent of a legitimate ultimate, they only thing that keeps them balanced are their shap ults....... but it bothers me why instead of giving one role stupidly bad ultimates and stupidly good items, there could not be a middle ground of some sort.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Doom

[SayMyName]

Her ult at level 3 is powerful indeed, you can keep a hero like shadow off of your ass for a decent time. But level 1's duration make it beyond worthless. If at level 3 you could ult a shadow, e to a safe distance and attack his still bound ass, as much as 3 times, at level 1 he walks or shades, and the webs effect only brings him back 1 unit before it expires. Better than nothing, but overall the mobility restriction it essentially is equal to about a 1 sec 50% movement slow that a hero that doesn't survive for very long in melee range has to cast from melee range....... If the AA items in this game were not as effective (leech in particular giving dps more pseudo-health than the toughest tank) people would demand that the ult was like 6 unit cast range. But since AA items are so broken, it makes sense that darpa's one minute blink, nova's suicide web (it costs you your life to use it offensively on someone, and you still will likely die if enemy initiated on you so well that you are in range of them) and ling's ultimate, which is worse than lz's lvl 2 Q. Don't get me wrong, it would be ridiculous if what they had was a balanced dps hero equivalent of a legitimate ultimate, they only thing that keeps them balanced are their shap ults....... but it bothers me why instead of giving one role stupidly bad ultimates and stupidly good items, there could not be a middle ground of some sort.

 

I Understand You, but thats the part of the balance like Eternity said.

 

Lvl 1 Web is still good and useful. It allows for stun follow up (from stunknife or cc in team) its good vs blink heroes cause it pulls them back. (If they react wrong/panic and blink too fast and put it on cd) If im not mistaken and it still works.

Edited January 11, 2015 by SayMyName

[Spooky]

Ling is impossible to balance in my opinion. If his burst damage is too high - he is OP, otherwise he is UP. He has to be able to get a kill with his abilities combo and survive that fight to be viable. But that also gives him huge potential to snowball so eventually he becomes considered OP. Same story is with Ling. Those are two badly designed heroes which balance never was in right spot. Mobile melee burst damage carries can't work without some kind of disables in their kit. So they can survive longer (since one of enemies is disabled) while their damage can be lower - more sustained less burst.

 

Look how Dota 2 melee carries are designed, many of them have good disables. For example Lifestealer, Night Stalker has powerful slow, Sven, Slardar and Alchemist has stun. I don't think so there is any designed in manner:

1) get fast in melee range

2) do as much damage as possible as fast as possbile

3) get the flob out before enemies realize what is going on

4) go back to 1) if enough HP left

Edited January 11, 2015 by Spooky

[Revision]

ling is frustrating to deal with when he gets rolling. add more counterplay, and then maybe think about changing some of his power spikes. by the way ulti is the only thing that makes him an interesting late game carry, so dont change that.

 

Edit:

Mobile melee burst damage carries can't work without some kind of disables in their kit. So they can survive longer (since one of enemies is disabled) while their damage can be lower - more sustained less burst.

Look how Dota 2 melee carries are designed, many of them have good disables. For example Lifestealer, Night Stalker has powerful slow, Sven, Slardar and Alchemist has stun. I don't think so there is any designed in manner:

1) get fast in melee range

2) do as much damage as possible as fast as possbile

3) get the flob out before enemies realize what is going on

4) go back to 1) if enough HP left

of course melee carries can work without disables. they are argueably the most fun heroes to play in mobas.

also you only listed strength semi-carries. there are even a few low-cc mobile hard carries in dota; eg. spectre, anti-mage, pa. (of course you can always buy basher, but i usually get taser as ling anyways so it evens out)

Edited January 16, 2015 by Revision

[SayMyName]

ling is frustrating to deal with when he gets rolling. add more counterplay, and then maybe think about changing some of his power spikes. by the way ulti is the only thing that makes him an interesting late game carry, so dont change that.

 

Edit: of course melee carries can work without disables. they are argueably the most fun heroes to play in mobas.

also you only listed strength semi-carries. there are even a few low-cc mobile hard carries in dota; eg. spectre, anti-mage, pa. (of course you can always buy basher, but i usually get taser as ling anyways so it evens out)

 

I dont agree with you saying that AM and PA are low cc hardcarries. PA absolute core item is abyssal and its also AMs core item (but later in game). They will bash and chase you to death (or just blink, stun from abyssal active and kill straight away). For spectre, yes, usually you will not go for and buy abyssal, but instead for some stats, cause its highly illusion teamfight hero. And spectre mobility is "ok" but its not a highly mobile hero.

 

Basher/abyssal is one of reasons why meele carries can go even lategame compared to range carries in dota.

 

 

The way how basher works for those who dont know it have a chance 25% for meele and 10% for range heroes to stun for 1,4sec (going through magic immunity) with internal cooldown between bashes. Abyssal Is the most expensive item in game (not counting dagon 5), upgraded from basher (together with the most expensive component- you need to save 3,8k gold for a relic, in dota you can lose gold) and it requires high attack speed to be efficient. You cant buy this item on heroes with natural bashes in the skillset

Edited January 16, 2015 by SayMyName

[Revision]

agreed. but there is taser in aos and that stops people from escaping as well. not totally even but still.

also if we want to bring league into this theres master yi, zed(semi-carry), fiora(not as mobile, but still has 2 jumps) for no cc

in roa theres xel and zeratul and those were considered some of the more fun heroes.

just trying to say you dont need hard cc to have an effective mobile melee carry without balance issues.

i would consider being able to teleport to any enemy hero on the map and run through walls and trees highly mobile. of course you probably think differently about that since dota gets 100g teles anyways.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Revision