Lz too strong all around.

[Doom]

As a DPS, he is very strong because he is not even slightly countered by burst int..... which raises the question "what is supposed to counter LZ", since he isn't superbly vulnerable to agi assassins either. As a tank, he provides immense team value with auras, and ult, as well as decent initiation. Strong dps, resist, even good w damage on lone targets. OP?

[NoWaterJustIce]

maybe his e shouldnt provide attack speed? and decrease the amount of shields given by his ult so its more of a teamfight skill and not nobody can kill me skill

[GreenSkittles]

sounds like cow..

[Jaysi]

I think a nerf to his Q cd or duration would be nice. His cd is half over by the time the duration is even over. You can't catch or shut him down when he's speedy and debuff immune almost 50% of the time.

 

I don't want to remove the weapon speed on E because I enjoy the fact that he is a bruiser that brings a lot of support and utility to his team. Remove the weapon speed and he isn't a bruiser. You can nerf his other skills but to do that changes his role. Most other bruisers don't have the utility or support he has but excel more in damage.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Jaysi

[Revision]

Should halve the shields he gives to allies and he might be more on par with the other tank/supports.

[jamescossey]

LZ is fine how he is. yes he does give 10% physical resist. but because of diminishing returns it starts off more like 8-9% and mid to late game it drops down to only being worth 1-3%. his shields are great for team fights. using it on just him self isn't really that great. he is still easy to poke down early game. and late game as an adc he has nothing except for a ring to trap you. no other damage really.

[Jaysi]

LZ is fine how he is. yes he does give 10% physical resist. but because of diminishing returns it starts off more like 8-9% and mid to late game it drops down to only being worth 1-3%. his shields are great for team fights. using it on just him self isn't really that great. he is still easy to poke down early game. and late game as an adc he has nothing except for a ring to trap you. no other damage really.

 

The thing is he has higher armor than agility carries between his passive aura and Tenacious Fury stacks. His stacks also give him quite a bit of weapon speed, which allows him to build tanky/bruiser. He's been a tier 1 pick or ban for more than a year and now his jungle/bruiser is showing due to the new items and tougher jungle.

[Adamantium]

The Q shouldn't count CD while it's active. Like Whale did for Cain E and brine R

[jamescossey]

he does not have more resist then agility carries. as well as even though he does get attack speed from his fury stacks he still has to get 2 attack speed items to get what agility heroes get from their passive agility.

 

The Q shouldn't count CD while it's active. Like Whale did for Cain E and brine R

 

I think he did that for cains E so that he couldn't have the charge then wait for the cd, attack and use it again for back to back.

[Destroyer]

LZ is probably the hardest carry in this game, or the best tank, depending on how you build him. The thing I hate the most about him is that both q and w have ridiculously short cool downs come late game, and are being used more then they are on cool down.

[Jaysi]

he does not have more resist then agility carries. as well as even though he does get attack speed from his fury stacks he still has to get 2 attack speed items to get what agility heroes get from their passive agility.

 

LZ with CoA, Pyre, Explosive, Contam, Shadowmourne, and FoE has 73 phys resist with max stacks. His WD is 476 and WS: 0.56-0.45 with Shadowmourne and pyre doing extra damage at 4k hp.

Tank LZ with Chilling and Korhal has 70.3 phys resist and 77.9 at max stacks.

 

Shadow(the highest scaling agility hero) with Shinobi, Arcbound, Khali, Explosive, Galactic Defender, and Xenomorph Cleaver has 57.3 phys resist.

Okay, so lets swap in a higher agil item, Timesplitter for Galactic, he has 64.6 phys resist. Shadow has 532 WD and 0.42 WS.

 

With the same exact items as Shadow as listed directly above and no stacks, LZ has 57.7 phys resist, with stacks 73.6. He also has 476 WD and 0.48 WS, 0.45 at max stacks. LZ has lower WD due to the agility items not granting him 47.5 WD and poorer scaling.

 

Summarizing... He has more physical resist than agility carries always with max stacks. If an agility carry gets 2 or more agility items then they will have more physical resist than LZ without stacks. Tank LZ also always has more physical resist.

 

Trust me, I love LZ, he's the first hero I started to pub stomp with after Raynor and the first hero I started IHing with. I'm just tired of him constantly being first picked or banned.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Jaysi

[Moo]

Wait, so people are playing AA LZ in inhouse? Or are you just joshing me?

[GreenSkittles]

Wait, so people are playing AA LZ in inhouse? Or are you just joshing me?

lz aa in ih auto win

[OPReN]

aa lz sucks..

it was all about shadowmourne.....

ive seen some noobs building CoA on lz and fail hard on inhouse a lot

[GreenSkittles]

The Q shouldn't count CD while it's active. Like Whale did for Cain E and brine R

somtimes i e and active finishes and 5secs after it finishes it starts cd

[Adamantium]

aa lz sucks..

it was all about shadowmourne.....

ive seen some noobs building CoA on lz and fail hard on inhouse a lot

 

CoA is a good item on LZ. I'm fairly sure that building this item was not the reason they failed. Then again you did call them noobs so...

[Jaysi]

Wait, so people are playing AA LZ in inhouse? Or are you just joshing me?

 

Well sure, he's a melee hero with alot of armor and passive weapon speed, so he's a good candidate for jungling with hatchet. His Q and W also make him a strong ganker.

[OPReN]

yes but you always rather build him tank lol

if you win as DPS LZ, you always could win as tank

it's not like you can't gank if you don't jungle ..

[Adamantium]

If you build tanky dps then you offer your team just as much shields while being scary to fight with. It's another viable option besides just being unkillable

Edited December 4, 2014 by AtomiK

[Jaysi]

Yea... I don't think you understand how much hp you can get from tank dps items... CoA, Explosive, Shadowmourne, and FoE all give 400-500 hp each. Aura items give like 275 hp each. You have just as much hp if not more from building tanky DPS to offer for shields. You can pick up a secondary tank/support for the aura items then.

 

It's much easier to gank when you're jungle because you're always missing, plus you get more farm than lane.

[OPReN]

Yea... I don't think you understand how much hp you can get from tank dps items... CoA, Explosive, Shadowmourne, and FoE all give 400-500 hp each. Aura items give like 275 hp each. You have just as much hp if not more from building tanky DPS to offer for shields. You can pick up a secondary tank/support for the aura items then.

 

It's much easier to gank when you're jungle because you're always missing, plus you get more farm than lane.

Shadowmournes gone

it wasn't about dps LZ it was all about shadowmourne..

Edited December 4, 2014 by OPReN

[Hanedog]

LZ is plenty viable with CoA. I think increasing CD on his sprint/spell immunity would solve a lot of people's frustration with him. I wouldn't say increase it much though as he seems relatively strong but balanced as is.

[Moo]

LZ is plenty viable with CoA. I think increasing CD on his sprint/spell immunity would solve a lot of people's frustration with him. I wouldn't say increase it much though as he seems relatively strong but balanced as is.

LZ isn't balanced IMO.