Maar's useless abilities

[fatman]

I think that any of us that have played Maar know what I am talking about.

The two unused skills (at least by me), being the savior aura, and the first tier heat wave.

Personally I think these abilities should be changed. The savior aura, rather than reducing the damage enemies do, should instead directly buff the resistances of all allys in it. Kind of like Rory's thing, but without the life regen.

For Maar's heat wave, it is just a crappy version of the heat wave plus. There is really no reason for this spell. Instead of what it currently does, I think it should be changed to an offensive version of his 1 blue orb spell. Probably something like Egon's silence spell, only it can't be cast on allies to give mana.

[Jaysi]

Apparently heat wave is quite good for last hitting. I agree the savior aura is quite useless. But another thing to keep in mind is the fact that Maar has the potential to fill quite a few roles and shouldn't necessarily be the best at each...

[Doom]

Heal aura is useless because it is the longest spell for him to cast (because most people max red before blue). Even if it were a super rory w I would not use it, for that reason alone. However, it is good that it's a heal, because it allows him to stay in lane until he runs out of energy. You use it rarely, because no one can come close to poke you anyways, but as a tool for healing a bunch of people up after a teamfight, its not bad.

 

Heat wave is fine, because you can cast it twice in the time of frost wave or heat wave plus. It's sap that's the problem. Very high int scale, heals, damages, not a skillshot......... I say make it something like Nova-ult range, and we'll see how maar likes it then. Absolutely broken hero, btw. I'm ok with frost-wave spam, but once you close the gap you should be able to kill him! His sap is almost larger than your vision range with his passive, which has no counter whatsoever. He's too good in close quarters, for someone able to seige so effectively.

[Eliwan]

Well, Heat Wave is very good.

 

It's useful because it's spammable.

 

While yes, it is "just an inferior version of Heat Wave Plus", the same argument can be used to say that Heat Wave Plus is useless-- It is, as the name says, "Heat Wave but Better"..

 

Personally, I like both skills. The short-ranged, slightly-easier-to-aim, lower-damage, Heat Wave, and the long-ranged, susceptible-to-speed-decay-misses, highish-damage, Heat Wave Plus.

 

I just wish they had more difference in their particles, and a different name. They're both really nice skills, I just hate how the skill calls itself "That but better".

 

As for Savior Aura...

 

Um... I'll remember it eventually. That's... enemies in the area deal 17% less damage? I don't remember the casting for it. Three destruction is the damage aura, two destruction, one creation is Vanguard (Time Scale), and I know he has a healing Aura, so I'd go ahead and hazard that that is three creation auras making Savior two creation and one destruction-- But I'm not sure.

 

I agree that Savior Aura is not the most useful, but what would be a good area-effect ability?

 

Currently, Maar has two auras that say "enemies do not want to be here" and two that say "allies want to be here". If you remove Savior Aura, then you need some offensive* area-effect ability to replace it, and it can't be 'deals damage'.

 

And yes, it has to be an Aura, because that's the way MAAR's abilities are structured-- Three orbs makes an aura.

 

* More accurately, a tool that discourages enemy presence in that specific zone, a way to control the map by giving your team the benefit of numbers while the enemy is inside that place.

 

Though I think, personally, it would be cool if Sap (rather, an enemy target ability) was switched to the one-Destruction ability, and some new skillshot effect was given in that spot--

 

Because then he would have a much better, cohesive 'theme' behind how his orbs work.

 

1 Orb: Target

2 Orbs: Skillshot

3 Orbs: Aura

 

@Doom: I don't think this topic is about Maar's healing aura. But I agree with you, that his Sap is really obnoxious given the rest of his kit's 'I HAVE RANGE' and the way Despair makes fighting him nigh-impossible.

 

Maybe... Well, let me just write what comes?

 

 

Explode (Destruction)

"[Target Enemy] MAAR deals 40/60/80/100 (+50% INT) Spell Damage to the target and 40/60/80/100 (+50% INT) Spell Damage to enemies within 2u of that unit after 1 second. {Secondary damage affects the target.}"

Range: 5-6u?

 

Gravity (Creation, Destruction)

"[Line] MAAR fluctuates the energy in the target 6u line.

After 1.5 seconds (MAAR can freely move after placement), allies within 2u of the line gain 10% Movement Speed for 2 seconds and enemies take 15% of their Current Health as Spell Damage."

 

 

[No, those sound kinda silly. But I.. I really agree with Doom here, MAAR is really hard to engage for how ridiculously good his siege can get.]

[ANARCHY]

how about some ideas then;

 

saviour -

reflect aura, reflects 5% of dmg done to allied heroes

absorb aura, 20% of damage taken by allied heroes within the aura is distributed to the ally with the most health (i like this 1 best, it has alot of affect on how your team operates, allies getting into trouble will cause distress for their tank)

vision aura, allies inside this aura receive +lvl*.6 sight range (3 at max) & enemy heroes inside the aura's sight is reduced by double this amount

 

heat wave, as said its still a good tool, i think it just needs to be slightly different although im not sure how

[BestPlayer]

How about we put cooldown on his individual abilities so Maar actually starts requiring some thought-process?

[Moo]

How about we put cooldown on his individual abilities so Maar actually starts requiring some thought-process?

If we are going to do that, Maar's individual abilities would have to be buffed. I am not opposed to this, however.

[OPReN]

How about we put cooldown on his individual abilities so Maar actually starts requiring some thought-process?

means maar can spam each skill with no cooldown?

Nah :(

[Moo]

 

means maar can spam each skill with no cooldown?

Nah :(

Did you mean "can't"?

[Doom]

Ah, Eliwan has informed me that we are talking of damage reduction aura. Well in that case, it is even more obvious that it's fine the way it is. It takes the shortest amount of time to cast 1 orb, then 1 double orb out of auras. So, natrually it has to be weaker than the other two, by the same reasoning that heat wave should do less than heat wave plus.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Doom

[Eliwan]

To be honest, I still think of the double-orb as a bug. It's clearly not the intended behavior for the ability.

 

I still think that Heat Wave should be replaced with a target skill and Sap with a line skill. The things I scribbled ramp up Maar's siege and kite by destroying his sustain, forcing him to take the time to build orbs for defenses or recovery.

 

...Which I think is OK, because Maar when played well is absolutely ridiculous... well, a year and a half ago. Has he changed at all?

 

 

[Moo]

To be honest, I still think of the double-orb as a bug. It's clearly not the intended behavior for the ability.

 

I still think that Heat Wave should be replaced with a target skill and Sap with a line skill. The things I scribbled ramp up Maar's siege and kite by destroying his sustain, forcing him to take the time to build orbs for defenses or recovery.

 

...Which I think is OK, because Maar when played well is absolutely ridiculous... well, a year and a half ago. Has he changed at all?

Not sure how Maar was that far ago, but I'll list off the nerfs I can remember. His ult can't take creeps with him anymore and isn't global. Heat wave plus range was nerfed. Aura duration lowered when placed on the ground. Aura's AoE lowered slightly I believe too.

[BestPlayer]

You can still double orb? I don't know about you guys, but I'm quite certain that is a bug.

 

That used to be banned in inhouse aswell, at least in EU.

[Moo]

You can still double orb? I don't know about you guys, but I'm quite certain that is a bug.

 

That used to be banned in inhouse aswell, at least in EU.

Probably is a bug. Maar isn't really strong enough to ban that, I haven't seen him picked in weeks.

[thomulf]

Did maar get some huge overhaul, or am I simply missing something?

 

Shield and freeze wall are his strongest early/midgame abils last I checked, what with the length of the wall persistent being significantly higher than the actual displayed range and possibly having as much reach as heatwave 2 does. Maxing E first makes you much more useful early on, W is really for the endgame.

 

Doubleorb gives a horrible 4sec cd though, so it's not really that advantageous once you get down to 1 cd.

 

There's several options for savior aura if it must be offensive, could be an attackspeed-slow field, damage amp field, etc. but atm it definitely feels like Maar's weakest skill.

Edited November 5, 2014 by thomulf

[Eliwan]

Shield and freeze wall are his strongest early/midgame abils last I checked, what with the length of the wall persistent being significantly higher than the actual displayed range and possibly having as much reach as heatwave 2 does. Maxing E first makes you much more useful early on, W is really for the endgame.

Except Sap is OP at all stages so by that logic you should distribute the points equally so you can get maximum sappage, no?

 

Also, it's a lot easier to land Heatwave+ than Frost Wave, which I believe is the reason people preferred it. I agree with you that from a pure-output point of view, maxing Creation seems to be stronger, but I also believe that the fact that AoS is highly susceptible to random choppiness (unlike, say, League of Legends, DotA2, or Heroes of the Storm), since it is easier to aim it becomes stronger.

 

Also it's better for clearing waves, because landing Frost Wave on all the creeps requires good placement of you and the wave, but for Heatwave+ it just requires clicking a bit past the melee creep, clicking closer to your creeps the closer you are to the enemy creeps (because for whatever reason the ball has a slowdown time).

 

Doubleorb gives a horrible 4sec cd though, so it's not really that advantageous once you get down to 1 cd.

This is actually a reason to max Destruction imo

 

Creation is A) really long ranged or an Aura, thus you can afford to spend a moment making it, or B) Your 1-creation Shield or C) Sap.

 

Which means that, as only the healing Aura, Frost Wave (and only the damage on it, the slow scaling, if present, is negligible), and the shield scale with ranks in Power of the Creator.

 

IF we look, of course, at the 'accessibility' and not the 'power' of the skills. If we look at the actual strength, I'm unsure. I think that people just prefer damage to shielding, thus Heat Wave though rarely used is a 'fun' button, but Shield is not as fun.

 

There's several options for savior aura if it must be offensive, could be an attackspeed-slow field, damage amp field, etc. but atm it definitely feels like Maar's weakest skill.

 

Agree. The only reason I said Savior Aura has to be offensive is that if it was defensive it would make Maar have 3 defensive and 1 offensive auras, which I personally believe messes with the balance that he exemplifies with the rest of his abilities.

[Moo]

 

Except Sap is OP at all stages so by that logic you should distribute the points equally so you can get maximum sappage, no?

 

Also, it's a lot easier to land Heatwave+ than Frost Wave, which I believe is the reason people preferred it. I agree with you that from a pure-output point of view, maxing Creation seems to be stronger, but I also believe that the fact that AoS is highly susceptible to random choppiness (unlike, say, League of Legends, DotA2, or Heroes of the Storm), since it is easier to aim it becomes stronger.

 

Also it's better for clearing waves, because landing Frost Wave on all the creeps requires good placement of you and the wave, but for Heatwave+ it just requires clicking a bit past the melee creep, clicking closer to your creeps the closer you are to the enemy creeps (because for whatever reason the ball has a slowdown time).

 

 

This is actually a reason to max Destruction imo

 

Creation is A) really long ranged or an Aura, thus you can afford to spend a moment making it, or B) Your 1-creation Shield or C) Sap.

 

Which means that, as only the healing Aura, Frost Wave (and only the damage on it, the slow scaling, if present, is negligible), and the shield scale with ranks in Power of the Creator.

 

IF we look, of course, at the 'accessibility' and not the 'power' of the skills. If we look at the actual strength, I'm unsure. I think that people just prefer damage to shielding, thus Heat Wave though rarely used is a 'fun' button, but Shield is not as fun.

 

 

 

Agree. The only reason I said Savior Aura has to be offensive is that if it was defensive it would make Maar have 3 defensive and 1 offensive auras, which I personally believe messes with the balance that he exemplifies with the rest of his abilities.

Sap sucks early.

 

Actually frost wave is easier to land.

 

You may use red to clear early, but you only need 1 red aura per wave, and getting more points in red orb just increases mana cost, the cooldown isn't needed early cuz you can easily get 1 aura per wave with level 1 red orb.

 

Shield is actually a really strong skill imo, whereas fireball rarely hits unless its a creep wave.

[Crimson]

Na maar dont need any changes to these's skills there really good if you know how to use them. fire is really good to do very fast damage an great at clearing creeps or keeping enemys from getting to close or they get toreing up by the fire ball mine field if you lay them down rite

 

Fire 1 an 2 are skill shots if you know how long it takes for each to go off you can land every time or atleast 80-100% of the time with them.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Crimson

[thomulf]

Except Sap is OP at all stages so by that logic you should distribute the points equally so you can get maximum sappage, no?

 

Also, it's a lot easier to land Heatwave+ than Frost Wave, which I believe is the reason people preferred it. I agree with you that from a pure-output point of view, maxing Creation seems to be stronger, but I also believe that the fact that AoS is highly susceptible to random choppiness (unlike, say, League of Legends, DotA2, or Heroes of the Storm), since it is easier to aim it becomes stronger.

 

Also it's better for clearing waves, because landing Frost Wave on all the creeps requires good placement of you and the wave, but for Heatwave+ it just requires clicking a bit past the melee creep, clicking closer to your creeps the closer you are to the enemy creeps (because for whatever reason the ball has a slowdown time).

 

 

This is actually a reason to max Destruction imo

 

Creation is A) really long ranged or an Aura, thus you can afford to spend a moment making it, or B) Your 1-creation Shield or C) Sap.

 

Which means that, as only the healing Aura, Frost Wave (and only the damage on it, the slow scaling, if present, is negligible), and the shield scale with ranks in Power of the Creator.

 

IF we look, of course, at the 'accessibility' and not the 'power' of the skills. If we look at the actual strength, I'm unsure. I think that people just prefer damage to shielding, thus Heat Wave though rarely used is a 'fun' button, but Shield is not as fun.

 

Also I don't know where you get the idea that sap is better at all stages in the game but until you have 300-400 int frost wave deals more damage, has more range and also slows the enemy while sap damage is nearly insignificant.

 

 

 

Agree. The only reason I said Savior Aura has to be offensive is that if it was defensive it would make Maar have 3 defensive and 1 offensive auras, which I personally believe messes with the balance that he exemplifies with the rest of his abilities.

 

People "prefer" damage but maar is not effective as an early burst hero... Shields serve your team so much better than unreliable damage- since 2W is only easier to aim if enemies move in entirely predictable ways/are unable to dodge.

 

Also don't know why you think sap is good early, it deals nearly no damage until you have 300-400 int, has low range, single target, doesn't slow.. ofc late game it is strongest but until you have at least 3 items E rules over all.

Edited November 8, 2014 by thomulf

[Eliwan]

I was trying to be sarcastic

 

Sap is good for sustaining early because MAAR has low Health, so his low INT x 1.5 = a significant portion of his HP

 

Shield is much better imo [This is why when I play Maar I go EWEQ...]

[Moo]

I was trying to be sarcastic

 

Sap is good for sustaining early because MAAR has low Health, so his low INT x 1.5 = a significant portion of his HP

 

Shield is much better imo [This is why when I play Maar I go EWEQ...]

I think healing aura is much more efficient than sapping early.

[thomulf]

I think healing aura is much more efficient than sapping early.

 

yeah, sort of even on your own, if you have any allies around it's so much better to use aura