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Help with new greelus


heimdallr
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After watching the changelog video on greelus and trying some builds on him....I must confess I probably don´t know what I´m doing

 

I´d make a qq up post but I´m probably missing something. Anyone had success on making him good? feels he does like so little with his skills now....except ulti maybe...

 

I have built him more intel, more tank, more cdr based...Not sure how to build him right

 

so I´ll read suggestions on succesful trials and try em later

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I suggest the following...

 

Dont play him. He was made "less easy" to use in inhouse play, which made him even less easy to use in pub play. He's a classic case of a hero who was nerfed due to ih complaints and made even worse for pubbing as well.

 

I played him on and off, and if the other team isnt good and you have a carry on your team who can indeed carry, then greelus can still be fun in a pub, but there are so many other better heros to pick if you enjoy winning.

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I suggest the following...

 

Dont play him. He was made "less easy" to use in inhouse play, which made him even less easy to use in pub play. He's a classic case of a hero who was nerfed due to ih complaints and made even worse for pubbing as well.

 

I played him on and off, and if the other team isnt good and you have a carry on your team who can indeed carry, then greelus can still be fun in a pub, but there are so many other better heros to pick if you enjoy winning.

I disagree that he is horrible. I don't think he is a super strong pick anymore, but I don't think he is trash.

 

@OP I haven't tested it out, but an aa-tank-int build seems like it would be effective. Lightning rod, ihan/nitrogen, tank items, etc. Next time I can play I'll mess around with greelus. Atom smasher might be good too, to hold them in ult.

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I disagree that he is horrible. I don't think he is a super strong pick anymore, but I don't think he is trash.

 

@OP I haven't tested it out, but an aa-tank-int build seems like it would be effective. Lightning rod, ihan/nitrogen, tank items, etc. Next time I can play I'll mess around with greelus. Atom smasher might be good too, to hold them in ult.

I didnt say he was horrible, so not sure who you are disagreeing with.

 

I said pretty much the same thing as you, except I've played him and you're openly admitting you're theorizing because you havent tested it out.

 

We both agree, he is not a strong pick anymore. And so thats why I said unless you are against a bad team or have a good carry who you trust to carry, you're better off picking someone else.

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Build him as tanky spell caster.

 

He is now meant to get messy in the fight and bring himself to the heat of battles by throwing himself into dangerous.

 

However, Gureelus can quickly escape to safety by active Bionavigate in which he teleports to the safe location that he sets up before the fight.

 

The CD of Bionavigate is shorten by a lot to make sure he can use it at any sort of team fight and react quickly to the change of enemy positions.

 

Early game, Gureelus is a very good support that can be a pain to enemy.

 

Getting a Moebius Coil and keep enemy at bay while being the babysitter to your lane partner.

 

Landing Irradiation on enemy constantly and right click the enemy will bring down their health very quickly regardless if they are a STR or AGI hero as the damage is now % HP based.

 

His new Ult Mass Contamination can be used in team fight in which enemy cannot ignore it even if you build tanky since they are now taking increased damage from all sources for every second that they stay in the cloud.

 

 

I don't feel like to type out all the reasoning behind the changes but, if you want, you can always get on Mumble!

 

Only a select group of people know how overpowered Greelus was and here is a few of the main reason why he was changed to this way.

 

1. His ult is the ultimate no brainer. All you do is to drop of the ult in any team fight then you are done. The damage from the old ult is almost three times as Cyprus's Ult damage if you stay the full duration. The area is almost the full screen in which not a single hero that can auto attack without taking the damage.

 

2. His Q clears the creep wave faster than anyone and is a point target which means no skill is required unless you count selecting an unit as a skill.

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I didnt say he was horrible, so not sure who you are disagreeing with.

 

I said pretty much the same thing as you, except I've played him and you're openly admitting you're theorizing because you havent tested it out.

 

We both agree, he is not a strong pick anymore. And so thats why I said unless you are against a bad team or have a good carry who you trust to carry, you're better off picking someone else.

The way you described it made him sound bad. I don't mean his is bad, I mean that he isn't OP. I have played him, I just haven't tested out builds on him. Edited by Moo
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The way you described it made him sound bad. I don't mean his is bad, I mean that he isn't OP. I have played him, I just haven't tested out builds on him.

I see, I see.

 

I view him as pretty bad still, coming from someone who pubs 99% of the time. His kit might work in inhouse and was definitely balanced solely for that purpose, but I've yet to see him shine in a pub. I've tried to make him good in a pub and at best he just feels mediocre. But again, if the other team is bad, then anyone can appear to be good :) I just find that against a competent team he's just kinda blah. Not fun and not really that amazing of a pick for any role.

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I see, I see.

 

I view him as pretty bad still, coming from someone who pubs 99% of the time. His kit might work in inhouse and was definitely balanced solely for that purpose, but I've yet to see him shine in a pub. I've tried to make him good in a pub and at best he just feels mediocre. But again, if the other team is bad, then anyone can appear to be good :) I just find that against a competent team he's just kinda blah. Not fun and not really that amazing of a pick for any role.

If you are against a competent team and your team is incompetent, any hero except OP ones or ones you are good with will seem bad.
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I was hoping he'd start getting picked up as a support/ a support role would actually start to exist. Instead ppl seem to think ranged AA Hard Carry like nova are just trash now that they can't jungle (and therefore won't try running Ranged Hard Carry + Support Lane)

 

Still needs to be seen, I think we proved ranged AA hard carry to still be viable these last few days.

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Whale since u r here are there any gear suggestions you had in mind with the new greelus? xD

 

I know why it was changed and I totally agree. I´m just figuring this guy now. Cause its like Q and R also give a benefit in lane/teamfights, but I have to be tanky to live and fight close quarters and have sustain and cooldowns to spam stuff and attack speed to capitalize Q and since I´m being almost melee.....and intel to have some damage potential on spells....so yeah I´m a bit confused....will try more ideas....a passive to greelus should be "since greelus has to do all roles gearwise he has 12 item slots!"

Edited by heimdallr
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I`m liking omniscience so far with greelus simply cause I can`t always rely on passive when and where I want to so the "know when to run back" is really cool and the sustain stats ....well cannot complain considering its kinda cheap...free wards....yeah...I tried starting with moebius as first item though and harras the fk with Q landing the shots, then LT, then googles and basically that makes my day for starting, then getting either omni or ihan followed by omni (depends if I`m going more far with the team or if I`m stuck at tower fending of pushes and harrass)

 

Nitro + ancient + ulti as you mentioned particularly if I land the ult right.....if not they kinda go to waste....the potential of ulti with ancient is huuuuge so that made me get it more and more often ....Though if I`m more on the defensive vs stuns and stuff I`d get parallax right away and then nitro + ancient...even without gravity the ancient really pays off as total damage to the whole of the enemy team

 

tried kassia....didn`t like so much on him.....personal preference (nothing against the item....I get it every freaking game as geneva)...I probably stay with the aura items....khoral, buffer, sometimes chilling or if not organic for the life sustain

 

So far some succes but not that much getting the auto attacks for Q but rather just poking from afar...usage of W? for mee its more of a sustain tool when energy creeps are around or if I did got stuck out of position and theres a chance I soak some damage with it while my Q + E recharge and I run to safety

 

 

more offensive build? since I pub I tried some slow build taking the atom smasher idea i read here...Basically its a tank tank build.....like nitro, superheated, atom, Foe , Organic , some random item kind of build

 

Basically very situational but you rely on superheated + nitro to keep an enemy slowed.....so you land your Q first and auto attack to get a slow, then you click closer in range of the superheated thing and attack again.....this basically keeps em superslowed with foe, atom and nitro....so you can get to melee range with your W and soak up even more damage and as long as you keep landing spells and maybe even your ulti if they decide to fight you, you can take some enemies by yourself or stop an enemy so other dps character can do his thing...still late game it gets really less consistent so i guess I rely on the intel build and more ulti oriented....

 

 

thats my report so far lol...I really gotta try tomorrow a build based on auto attack items that also make you tanky...but not today....too sleepy

 

 

EDIT: tried ways to capitalize on Q by means of fast attack and letting the spell damage bonus + % of health do the damage per hit...it kinda worked but to be an effect actually noticed in battle or in harassing situations I had to get 2 fast attack items(ei: pyre + ravager or pyre + something generally)...that left only 4 item slots for other stuff so it was either all tanky + organic or still tankyness but with that new item that gives you missing health on every auto attack thiough sometimes i had to go to creeps and stuff and auto attack them to death but would give me back energy fast to not rely on ihan (and sell it to keep stacks and release a slot)

 

I still think the hero could be changed a bit and some guy (yes, in a pub so you may disregard his opinion if you want) cursed me being with greelus since we had a leaver and even if I didn`t die much my best supports were based on ulti + nitro and using omni to give lots of vision(which any hero can buy so its not exclusive for greelus)

 

@Whale if you still want to make him like a pure support guy then why his Q forces you to attack yourself only? it could give some benefit to others that attack him (pulling ideas out of my back) or allow yourself to get some FIXED number of hp stealing when you attack the enemy affected for the 6 seconds duration. Without going super attack speed it always felt if i used this to harass the enemy would fight me back and leech more so I became the harassed LOL....also if this is implemented the number should be fixed and maybe dpeendant on skill level but its to avoid having to build damage oriented to profit. Instead it would be a mean to justify attacking after a succesful Q so if the enemy strikes back at least you didn`t get harassed with your own spell so to speak.

 

I`ll still come back to this thread to read any ideas ppl post and comments

Edited by heimdallr
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I was hoping he'd start getting picked up as a support/ a support role would actually start to exist. Instead ppl seem to think ranged AA Hard Carry like nova are just trash now that they can't jungle (and therefore won't try running Ranged Hard Carry + Support Lane)

 

Still needs to be seen, I think we proved ranged AA hard carry to still be viable these last few days.

I agree with Whale. I believe that the coming of support heroes is nice with the additions of new items etc etc. For example how rancor could be more so played as a support rather than just trying to be a carry and ks all the shots. Greelus could also be the same being a support role getting team items and doing wut its made to do. I think players forget the whole aspect of the heroes "role" and is always just focusing on killing the other person head on rather than understanding the point of the hero itself. Just like another example would be how people are posting how avenger is way too squishy etc etc. Well its not made to just head on take heroes 1on1 like a nova would or darpa etc..

 

I think playing greelus or rancor as a support is more fun for me now in my opinion.

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I agree with Whale. I believe that the coming of support heroes is nice with the additions of new items etc etc. For example how rancor could be more so played as a support rather than just trying to be a carry and ks all the shots. Greelus could also be the same being a support role getting team items and doing wut its made to do. I think players forget the whole aspect of the heroes "role" and is always just focusing on killing the other person head on rather than understanding the point of the hero itself. Just like another example would be how people are posting how avenger is way too squishy etc etc. Well its not made to just head on take heroes 1on1 like a nova would or darpa etc..

 

I think playing greelus or rancor as a support is more fun for me now in my opinion.

 

Hope MORE support oriented gear gets added!!!

 

for now as supportish as greelus gets for me is Omni cause I love that item, and nitro cause even without ulti it helps if you are aacking someone under the effect of Q

 

Some good ganks have been done if i am tanky enough to go behind the enemy and land a Q....then autoattack does slow and spell damage + nitro does more slow and hope I don´t die but as a slowing device does help a bit....also drones are good anti escape mechanism and basically I try to pair a lane with an autoattacker to deal the damage while I basically disable

 

Still I´m not feeling tanky enough with W

maybe a little buff? not sure on the energy stolen but on the shieldability considering a REAL use of Q and drones pretty much demands you to go very very close as to get a good disable + following up attack move attack move under Q...If its gonna be a non too damaging support at least make dam sure I can take the damage to keep supporting IMO still got used to greelus by now and to land the Q more reliably....he is almost in a good place I think

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I was hoping he'd start getting picked up as a support/ a support role would actually start to exist. Instead ppl seem to think ranged AA Hard Carry like nova are just trash now that they can't jungle (and therefore won't try running Ranged Hard Carry + Support Lane)

 

Still needs to be seen, I think we proved ranged AA hard carry to still be viable these last few days.

 

I don't think you should balance heroes in hopes that a new role will start to appear. The thing about AoS that i liked the most is that no matter what hero you play besides medic, you can carry when ahead or a better way to put is would be you can make a larger impact. Everyone has the opportunity to carry or support or be tanky. They have the option to do what they want, but forcing heroes into a role limits that and makes the game less interesting and fun when heroes are being forced to be played a certain way. I would like to see AoS have its own unique meta and not LoL's. If i want to play LoL type lanes then i'd just play LoL.

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Still I´m not feeling tanky enough with W

maybe a little buff?

 

I tend to agree. In a real team fight the W doesn't leach/fill shields fast enough to be that useful. For instance shadow/balrog/anyone runs in and starts beating on you, pressing W doesn't really make you live any longer. If you have dropped your beacon you can 'beam' out, but your W was still not a skill worth having.

 

A couple ideas might be:

1) Instead of being an 'over time' shield refill, make happen instantly, anyone in the ring loses x amount of energy and greelus gains x shield RIGHT THEN.

2) Add a 'support' effect to the W to make it more useful, perhaps a slow, weapon speed / damage reduction to anyone in the ring. This would add some CC and just make the ability a bit more useful. Maybe even make the first hero attacking you after W has been triggered receive a 1 second stun (electric mantel type effect).

 

Just my 2 bits after a few Greelus games. I think these changes would help with the support role.

 

Thanks for the updates and hard work on the hero/items so far guys!

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I don't think you should balance heroes in hopes that a new role will start to appear. The thing about AoS that i liked the most is that no matter what hero you play besides medic, you can carry when ahead or a better way to put is would be you can make a larger impact. Everyone has the opportunity to carry or support or be tanky. They have the option to do what they want, but forcing heroes into a role limits that and makes the game less interesting and fun when heroes are being forced to be played a certain way. I would like to see AoS have its own unique meta and not LoL's. If i want to play LoL type lanes then i'd just play LoL.

 

So what you're saying is implementing a support role which is common to all MOBAs is copying LoLs meta.

 

I also don't think having every hero able to do everything makes much sense. You want darpa to be able to support and tank? Are you saying there's a problem with his design because he will be useless if he tries to fulfill a role other than dps?

Edited by AtomiK
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so, mister tits....is there any chance you would consider altering a bit the W rather than just upping numbers in a way that allows better support in the middle of the battle? (where you pretty much have to be in order for your Q and E support to be useful)

Edited by heimdallr
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So what you're saying is implementing a support role which is common to all MOBAs is copying LoLs meta.

 

I also don't think having every hero able to do everything makes much sense. You want darpa to be able to support and tank? Are you saying there's a problem with his design because he will be useless if he tries to fulfill a role other than dps?

 

No i didnt say having a support role is copying LoL's meta. What I did say was I don't want the lanes to be how LoLs lanes are which is adc/sup, mid lane (mage/assassin), jg and top (tank/bruiser).

 

I guess I was very broad when I said "can do everything". Of course there are heroes that have kits that basically put them into a role, but what I was talking about are heroes like Rancor or Rory that can build either damage or supportish and do well with either build. Heroes like that are fun because they have so many options that they can choose from. Instead of heroes being pushed into certain roles. Almost every hero design on the forums or heroes in the game were most likely designed with the type of role the creator wanted before the hero was conceived. This example has been used before, but Gyrocopter from DotA can fill as a support or a late game carry, which is awesome. Designs like that are really interesting and fun to play because you can do what you want to do for the most part. That is what I was getting at. Not that Darpa should be able to tank or support, or that his kit is bad bc he cant do anything other than dps. It just makes the game more fun and adds more personal customization for certain heroes.

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probably. when i was reworking his q and r I considered making it slow, but felt it would be too similar to jackson. If we can come up with something that feels unique but adds utility, I wouldn't mind adding it.

 

How about when 'V' (teleport) is triggered EVERYTHING in the ring goes with Greelus! Maybe OP, but that would be cool and unique. Also I would play him more often.

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probably. when i was reworking his q and r I considered making it slow, but felt it would be too similar to jackson. If we can come up with something that feels unique but adds utility, I wouldn't mind adding it.

I wouldnt mind seeing enemies hit by his R lose 15% timescale and allies in the area gain 15% timescale. Or some value of that... so it isnt a slow like jackson. Or if you are really trying to avoid it turning into a slow, then maybe just leave that part out and have it increase allies timescale by 20% or some amount.
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