Standardizing Minions' Resistance

[MOTHER]

I think it will do the game good to standardize the damage resistance of minions across the board. In other games, certain items or abilities would deal bonus damage against minions and others would be less effective. We don't have the luxury or time to add different damage types for minions but we can play with and standardize their physical and spell resistance to achieve a similar effect.

 

My proposal is simple, minions (we'll define who I am referring to shortly) should be much more prone to spell damage than physical. I suggest that minions' average physical resistance should be twice, three, or four times their spell resistance. For example, all minions would be given at least 50-60% physical resistance but only half or a third of that (20-30%) as spell resistance.

 

The main purpose of doing this is creating a more clear, apparent and direct counter to minions, in the form of spell damage, while still preserving their strength on the battlefield in the form of an edge against physical damage.

 

Some minions may have slightly more or slightly less base physical resistance than 60% of course but the standard that half/third/quarter of whatever that number is would be their spell resistance remains consistent.

 

Minions include all of the following:

 

Banelings (Queen)

Tyrant Ultralisk (Queen)

Tass Clone (Tassadar)

Unix Marines (Unix)

Unix Marines Eggs (Unix)

Marines (Marine King)

Laser Turret (Garamond)

Spectres (Tosh)

Broodlings (Kerrigan)

Cracklings (Crackling)

Civilians (Biotron)

 

By standardizing the minion resistance, clear cut counters against pushers and their minions become more easily discernible among the existing cast and items (and also in the future when adding new items and heroes). Equally, Minions retain their strength, relevance and even an edge against team compositions that are heavy on the physical damage.

 

Eliminating their spell resistance completely would make things too one sided (and not very fun), so I am going with half of the physical resistance as spell resistance in this example, but the implication of this standardization is that minions would always innately have mid-high-to-very high physical resistance but mid-low-to-very low spell resistance.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Jessika

[BestZeratul]

I don't see why this is necessary at all, or what problem you are trying to fix. If it is that splitpushing is too easy, you don't fix splitpushing with more counterpush and splitpush, you need more effective gankers.

[MOTHER]

It's not necessary but there is a problem in that there is no formal anti-summoner strategy or strategies sponsored by the game in AoS. There is a discrepancy between all the minions that kinda bothers me, you have MK's marines which fall like flies to ANY damage and then you have Unix' Marines which have invulnerability (!) and something like 50% spell resistance, then you have Gara's towers which I swear are made of paper. This is not directly related to split pushing, or how easy it is because AA heroes can split push just as well now without minions.

 

Standardizing their damage resistance offers more clean cut strategies and counter strategies for and against these heroes. It is definitely a simplification of gameplay but without compromising the depth.

 

So again, is it necessary? No, not really. But will it make the game more seamless and improve it for new players and veterans? I think so, yes.

[BestZeratul]

Mass minion strats require coordination and only are executed somewhere close to properly in inhouse games and tournaments so I don't think it will change the game this much for new players. Making all minions the same would make the game boring as maybe some of them are designed to be vulnerable to spell damage while others to physical damage.

 

I mean I don't see how giving them all the same magic resistance and armor doesn't remove depth from the game. The formal strategy in any games to counter mass summons is aoe damage and I belive there is a great deal of aoe damage dealers in aos.

[MOTHER]

The suggestion isn't to give them all the same armor and magic resistance though, it is to make them all much more prone to spell damage and much less prone to physical damage. There will of course be varying degrees between each minion but an overall consistency in their resistance strength and weakness.

 

For example, Queen's Tyrant Ultralisk (lvl 3) could have 60-70% physical resistance but 20-30% spell resistance, Unix' and MK' marines would also have 50-60% physical resistance but 10-20% spell resistance. They are not identical, but similar.

[BestZeratul]

Why would you do that, why would casters be the only ones allowed to counter summons ??? I don't see how this makes the game more fun, more balanced or more interesting.

[MOTHER]

Why the hell not? The rock/paper/scissors format is prevalent in strategy games including mobas. Something that costs energy to create ought to cost energy to destroy I think. Having said that, many spell damage options exist for AA heroes like Explosive, Lightning Rod, SHM, etc. The only difference is that those options will work better than before against minions but their autoattack will be less effective.

[ginosaji]

I don't see how this will effect anything besides MK and Queen, as they are the only two heroes with summons that have any health pool at all. When something has 100-200 HP it doesn't really matter what it's resistance is. What matters is how many AAs at what points in the game it takes to kill a minion... or how much spell damage you need. I don't see what standardizing resistances would benefit. Why not just directly nerf or buff whatever summons you think aren't balanced. If you think they are balanced, I see no reason to mess with this over fixing bugs or providing new content with Ecko's time.

[BestZeratul]

Why the hell not? The rock/paper/scissors format is prevalent in strategy games including mobas. Something that costs energy to create ought to cost energy to destroy I think. Having said that, many spell damage options exist for AA heroes like Explosive, Lightning Rod, SHM, etc. The only difference is that those options will work better than before against minions but their autoattack will be less effective.

 

But where's the rock paper scissors format ? It's just aa is not good vs minions, spells are good vs minions.

[Revision]

What team coordination does spewing minions on a tower require?

[ginosaji]

What team coordination does spewing minions on a tower require?

I don't know man... I've seen plenty of unix players drop a full 10 eggs on a tower before the wave is even there... It's pretty hard to time summoning your minions at the same time the creep show up.

[SayMyName]

I think debating with those people Chob is sensless. They'll never learn and understand. And will not want to. This is super huge problem and block for progression in this game and making it really good. But I stopped to care.

 

And i find funny your first post about "increasing gankers pool/strenght" in this community of mainly teenage pubbers.

Its like almost sinning and asking to go into depths of hell and fire.

 

Most people could not stand that they can be ganked. ITS TOO OP. And would cry for whole day each death infinitly.

Its not that there is something like possible learning, analyzing mistakes, accepting mistakes. There is nothing like "bad postioning", herping in the map alone. not taking objectives, not playing as team, not using timings. There is nothing like map control and game controling. Nothing like growing up and start to play with a team, instead of rnd people and talking about balance. Playing like a team. Stop having mentality 1v5 and ME and start having thinking "what is needed to win" and what is good for team. IN A MOBA game.

 

There are no sentences, words like this in 80% pool of this community. So changes are not possible.

Game development destination is listening to those crying and nerf gank heroes and solo potential. Nerf killing potential. Nerf losing potential. Decreasing value. Making everything the same (thinking its balance). Removing any complexity. So people like that have a chance to understand something slightly and wont need to learn anything and then say that they are good players of "mario bros" game. Thing is that development of this game is directed into "game for losers". Thing is that there is wrong thinking that listening to those people will make good game for them.

 

Where it looks like that working on the game for development stopped being fun and is more of a problem and some kind of almost punishment. The less work the better.

 

 

 

Then its crying "splitpushers are too op". And those people dont even know and understand WHY.

 

 

Why would this community and developers EVER listen to experienced people? When they can choose not to.

When everybody is "smartass". And experience and input of 1-2 year playing pubber is the same, have same value in this community as experience of a guy playing 7 years, leagues, tournaments, playing constantly with teams, watching professional streams, reading stuff, analyzing stuff and more.

Edited April 22, 2014 by SayMyName

[BestZeratul]

Damn smn went ham.

[MOTHER]

SMN you should gather your experienced friends, all 8 of them and make a private forum, like a safehaven for your wisdom, experience and uberskills away from us 1-2 year old newbies and then proceed to circle jerk.

 

Write me back an essay about how awesome it is, I'll be sure to read it.

[Hogwarts]

SMN you should gather your experienced friends, all 8 of them and make a private forum, like a safehaven for your wisdom, experience and uberskills away from us 1-2 year old newbies and then proceed to circle jerk.

 

Write me back an essay about how awesome it is, I'll be sure to read it.

 

First post you have made i have actually liked.

 

GJ

[MOTHER]

Second.

 

You also liked this hero design of mine at some point in time: http://www.aeonofsto...ies1eradicator/

 

Hashtag just saying.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Jessika

[Hogwarts]

nope double check that

[MOTHER]

Kinda childish, but whatever.