Stukov too strong

[SourDiesel]

Does anyone else think the new patch has made Stukov OP?

 

His Q got what amounts to nearly a 50% increase and his W saw nearly a 100% increase in damage.

 

With the new Poison he can do 30% HP damage (6% per second for 5 seconds) with a single spell. He can do 24% damage with the new burn (4% per second for 6 seconds). Throw in Gravity and Yamato and those numbers climb to a whopping 43% and 35% respectively which means with two skills he can take any hero in the game down to less than 1/5 health (disregarding spell resist, obviously). And, that's without getting any intel items other than Gravity and Yamato which means he can do loads of damage and still act as an aura mule for the rest of the team plus build the tankiness he needs to get into close combat to regularly land his Q.

 

All of that is before you even consider that his E his an AoE skill that also reduces damage. If he hits 3 targets with his E in one shot (which is difficult but not impossible in a team fight) he will have done 105% damage in one shot. Cow and Rancor can barely manage that kind of damage with their ulti's and stacking piles of intel items, plus they have longer delays on their cast times. With Yamato, Stukov can turn around and do it all over again 10 seconds later.

 

He can now insta-kill just about any hero that wanders around alone throughout the entire game when he throws in his Ulti and AA.

Edited April 18, 2014 by SourDiesel

[Indo]

Increase cd for both poison and burn but can we make the burn last longer while decreasing its dmg to 3% or so? It should be about the weapondmg reduction mainly. The dmg output of it is fine but so many people flame that it is a 100% buff for the almost nonexcistent dmg it did

Edited April 18, 2014 by Indo

[SourDiesel]

Increase cd for both poison and burn but can we make the burn last longer while decreasing its dmg to 3% or so? It should be about the weapondmg reduction mainly. The dmg output of it is fine but so many people flame that it is a 100% buff for the almost nonexcistent dmg it did

 

I respectfully disagree that the damage output on Searing Concoction (his E) is fine as it is right now. As I indicated above, with just two items his E can do 35% damage to any hero in the game in an AoE. Against a tank with 5000 health, that’s 1750 damage with one skill. Burst heroes generally need to carry at least four intel items before they can do that kind of damage with a single skill. I could maybe see it if it were a difficult skill shot, but it is incredibly easy to land his E from a distance where Stukov is in no danger at all.

 

IMO, his E isn’t even intended to do much damage, most of the value of the skill is supposed to come from the damage reduction which is incredibly strong in its own right.

[Indo]

a tank with 5000 hp will have an organic and a little more spellresist. You are calculating as if he wouldn't rly have any spellresist and all. So you also think erekuls passiv does hurty hurty to tanks? Just becaus it scales with max hp makes him the viable counter caster for tanks (besides raynor with mark).

 

However glasscanons can own him with leech :3 if you don't believe me try it vs me

[SourDiesel]

a tank with 5000 hp will have an organic and a little more spellresist. You are calculating as if he wouldn't rly have any spellresist and all. So you also think erekuls passiv does hurty hurty to tanks? Just becaus it scales with max hp makes him the viable counter caster for tanks (besides raynor with mark).

 

However glasscanons can own him with leech :3 if you don't believe me try it vs me

 

The point of that calculation was to look at raw damage. Any spell is subject to spell resist. The point is that the capability of doing 1750 raw damage to any hero with only two intel items is a bit ridiculous, especially a skill that also lowers damge and can be landed that easily at range.

 

As far as going 1v1 vs a glass cannon, that's not how the game is played; it's played as a team. Now, I suspect that I could take you 1v1 with as much leach as you want because I could build gravity-yamato-sunflare-swordbreaker-paralax-chilling and you'd be dead before the sword breaker wore off to even use your leach. You might be able to counter with a pile of spell resist and health. But the whole thought experiment is academic, because neither the proposed build for Stukov or any build heavy on health and spell resits on a glass cannon would be viable for IH.

 

Scaling with max HP and working on a percentage is not the issue here. Erekul's passive does such a small percentage that it is not a problem. Before the buff in the recent patch, Stukov wasn't a problem either. The issue now is that the percentage is too high, not that it works on a percentage at all.

 

With two items and two skills (not even including his ult, which is pretty strong as well), Stukov can deal 80% raw damage to any hero in the game regardless of their health (16% of that being true damage). With the other four item slots he can carry chilling, korhal, spell buffer, and organic, making him very tanky and extremely useful to the team as an aura mule - freeing up the primary tank to focus on initiation, survivability, or damage as he sees fit. If that's all he could do, he would be extremely powerful. But you add on the utility he offers in the form of damage reduction between his W and E and it just begins to get a bit ridiculous.

Edited April 18, 2014 by SourDiesel

[Jaysi]

His E is the armor buff and his W is the burn, I believe.

 

He is strong right now, and I typically build him as described. Gravity Edge, Yamato, Symphonic Seed, Chilling, Korhal, and spell buffer. His scaling is quite low and not worth stacking Int.

 

He's strong right now, but some counters are leech, spell resist, silence, a healer such as Egon, medic, or maar, and a blink will stop his ultimate dead in its tracks.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Jaysi

[Indo]

Wrong, 1n1 counter vs stukov on any dps hero would be cloak. SB? I don't even care

 

In a teamfight he isn't that much of a treat. Just the one getting plenty of kills from retreating enemies when they lose their last 20% hp to his dots

 

His dmg is against a single target and in a teamfight he might use his poison twice and his burn to. His ulti is way to ez to dodge to actually hurt unless you got a nice chronosspehre right there

[Doom]

The fact that his poison does more damage to a single target than pretty much any other ability, including several ultimates, and that it doesn't have a long cooldown, cast time, short range, extreme mana cost or any other weaknesses is rubbish. His burn is fairly strong also (not OP if he hadn't had any other damaging abilities but seeing as he does, it isn't balanced either). Yes, parallax is lovely for dealing with stuchov, however you cannot have EVERYONE go for it, not to mention it can be activated quite easily by chilling or some long-range cc and you are short 3400 minerals of defence item for the next 30 seconds. Just nerf the duration of burn and poison by 2-4 seconds or a few percent, and he'll be ok.

[Nazg]

With 8% cunning, he is ridicolously strong. He can be countered as you say, but that logic applies to everything in the game. The thing is, he can buly you out of lane no matter what you play with abilities which are easy to hit, cost and CD is not that high. No hero in the game has so powerfull abilities and if it does, they are much harder to hit. Also items you can buy to counter him cost money you cannot spend on improving your killing potential and no everyone can't go tankmode just because stukov is in the game.

 

My personal opinion is : stukov needs some balance changes (at least early to midgame, like less base dmg but somewhat better scaling)

Edited April 19, 2014 by Nazg

[Doom]

Maybe make his Q a skillshot like vorpal javelin (with a small hitbox, obviously).

[Indo]

He can win in any lane? No. Garamont can own him, raynor can own him jakk can own him ( depending on the item choice thou, pendant helps vs him) maar has an advantage due to the shields. If we don't talk about mid heroes like boros or balrog give an advantage over him, micro etc (egon in any situation lol, i think his aoe heal is 1% stronger then poison :3)

[Doom]

He can win in any lane? No. Garamont can own him, raynor can own him jakk can own him ( depending on the item choice thou, pendant helps vs him) maar has an advantage due to the shields. If we don't talk about mid heroes like boros or balrog give an advantage over him, micro etc (egon in any situation lol, i think his aoe heal is 1% stronger then poison :3)

 

Thankfully Maar still supreme mid-laner (I say thankfully, because he probably won't get nerfed in that area, and no one in their right mind will implement a hero so op that he can rival him there)

 

Stuchov-Cain sidelane. What beats it? Cain provides CC, stuchov the damage (and q+a for massive slow as well). Cain with stuchov buff can take basically infinite damage. Both deal insane amounts back. Even the mighty rancor-raynor lane would be zoned out and ineffectual. And even egon would not be able to heal fast enough. All heroes with debuff removal are melee and would be zoned out with basic aa's. The only way I see to beat it is to put queen/vergil/vorpal solo and pray that they don't get denied too hard.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Doom

[Indo]

"The mighty rancor-raynor lane"... Best ...thing ...ever! But nah I don't think that stukov+cain would win vs them. Mark stun silence and marauders slowzoning out them is one of the most nasty things ever

[TaxHaven]

Stukov does 55% max hp damage in 1 q w combo with no int items. This is just retarded. He does 80% if you get grav or nitrogen or rune. How is this even comparable to rancor raynor, who cant burst down a hero that much at those lower levels

[MOTHER]

It's really not logical that the developers did not realize how OP the bleed and poison mechanics are when they were updating them in the last patch. They are clearly not stupid people, therefore it's probably intentional. If so why? Are you trolling us? Is this your way of marketing your new heroes and mechanics? Make them OP for a few weeks? Because Stukov really is flobing broke at the moment and Khyrak does obscene amounts of damage.. Honestly there is no flobing way Ekco and Red did not see this on paper, you don't have to play them to know those numbers are just too flobing much. The same applies to Khyrak too.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Jessika

[MrGrim]

The same people who thought having a hero you couldn't target was a great idea *coughshadowcough*

[Indo]

Stukov was op even before. But the problem isn't how his skills scale atm but that people don't even have a slight idea of how to counter it or didn't succed with their standart good for everypub build.

[SourDiesel]

Stukov was op even before. But the problem isn't how his skills scale atm but that people don't even have a slight idea of how to counter it or didn't succed with their standart good for everypub build.

 

Stukov was not OP before, in fact, he was probably under powered. In our IH games, he was virtually never picked. His damage was strong out of the gates, but rapidly became relatively inconsequential as korhal, spell buffer, etc. were purchased. In the mid to late game, he basically became an aura mule that offered some utility in the form of his armor and damage reduction on corrosive blast. In general, Erekul was a better choice, if the role was needed, because Erekul could act as an aura mule while offering higher, longer duration damage reduction, more tankiness, and a stronger ultimate.

 

The problem with Stukov right now is totally in the scaling and fixing him is simply a matter of getting the percentages right on the damage output for his Q and W. I didn’t mind seeing Stukov get buffed, but ~50% and ~100% buffs to his two main damage skills was too much. You could take almost any hero in the game, give them that large of a buff to their two main damage skills and they would be OP. Stukov has become a damage machine – to the point that he is now a caster carry in the late game AND an aura mule for the team.

 

Anyway, it seems like most IH games are auto banning Stukov now and I think that speaks volumes about his current status in the game. I expect he will be nerfed next patch.

[Derpotamus]

I don't think stukovs poison and burn needed any buffs as his laning was already strong, what really needed a buff was his ultimate, terrible int scaling and incredibly easy to dodge with any blink. He needs more use in teamfights as the only thing that's strong on him Is dot dmg.

[Indo]

How come there was the banhammer on him? Also whenever i had stukov on my team it won and stukov went like 25-6

 

 

[Doom]

On a side note, a very amusing buff to Stuchov ultimate would be to make it shoot an enraged Boros omnislashing the enemy instead of the lame green goey shap.

[SourDiesel]

Wait, what? Here you're saying that Stukov's damage output is fine as is:

 

The dmg output of it is fine but so many people flame that it is a 100% buff for the almost nonexcistent dmg it did

 

And here you're saying that Stukov was OP even before the recent buff:

 

Stukov was op even before. But the problem isn't how his skills scale atm but that people don't even have a slight idea of how to counter it or didn't succed with their standart good for everypub build.

 

 

How come there was the banhammer on him? Also whenever i had stukov on my team it won and stukov went like 25-6

 

You're flip flopping around here and making no sense. In the first quote, you said his damage output is totally fine right now and that he is easily countered by AAs and proper items. In the second quote, you said that he is OP but only if you don't know how to counter him (which is really the same as saying he's not OP because the game is balanced with the counters taken into mind, but whatever). In the third quote, you're saying that BEFORE he got buffed he was OP going 25-6.

 

So which is it? Do you agree with me that he is OP now? Are you taking a stronger stance that he actually should have been nerfed because he was OP before? Do you think he is fine as is today? Based on your contradicting posts, I literally have no idea what you think at this point.

 

Anyway, there was no auto on him before, at least not in the IHs I was playing in. Our standard auto's before the recent patch, including the league games we've played in, had been: MK, Dehaka, Shadow, Boros Lockbox, Micro Dial, and Gara Shadowmourne. Obviously, Stukov has been added to that list now.

Edited April 22, 2014 by SourDiesel

[Indo]

@sourdiesel

 

Sigh. Don't you get to the point that he might be op becaus he has the only viable dot becaus it scales with max hp lleaving egon out. Is there another hero that scales with %of maxhp on his attacks? Oh right kyhrak with 12sec duration? Stukov op but that is fine? Stukovs dots are strong at anytime but earlygame what is unusual for a caster and he can melt down tanks and people that see stacking hp and armor as tanky. However having a darpa mostly flobs him even with the changes on him or your dps with vibraniumshields

[iatebambi]

BUMP BUMP BUMP.

 

I have found his early game is just incredibly strong. The base damage of his skills need to be reduced, however the DoT is fine. Late game he is very much counter-able.

 

I also have a huge problem with his E (armour+regen), which people seem to ignore. The skill provides X amount (forgot how much) of armour and a whopping 20 hp regen!!! To put this into perspective, compare it to Toximancer's W (resist+regen). At max level it only provides 9% (I think) physical resist and a measly 2.5 hp regen... I don't under stand why there is such a huge difference between them.

[Spooky]

good point, Toxi armor hp regen should be definitely higher as it doesn't fit current meta at all. However I wouldn't change Stukov E. Ability is very strong early game, but late game that hp regen part doesn't matter at all.