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Death Spiral?

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Maybe it's just me, but AoS has lost its luster. The replay value has decreased, and I even find myself paying D3 more (that should say something).


I think the heart rate of this game is starting to drop, and may bottom out. I think fresh perspective and influence into the game itself is need. The hostility towards this kind of criticism doesn't help either.


I think we need to look back to the days of sotis and stop this LoL Dota ripping that has become prevalent.


Or maybe I should just say flob it and move on.

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The game has gone into favoring INT chars more and more each and every patch, and this standardization of burn, poison and bleed is doing the same as well, it is by far giving way too much true damage to spell casters, and nerfing AGI chars more and more. Even a strong intel using AGI like Rancor gets his new cloak buff reduced right away, while Stukov, who was already op gets buffed by the new standardization of the mechanics. Having 3 new spell effects that target max hp, while pyre remains at current hp, and having them also slow, reduced resistances and reduce weapon damage, are clearly anti-carry/anti-AGI.


The constant over-nerfs and over buffs are rather annoying as well, along with "nerfs & buffs" that accomplish nothing. nerfing a skill that had nothing to do with a char being op.


Making Abilities useless or completely ridiculously underpowered is annoying as well.


Lets just take an example of comparing 2 heroes and 1 getting a nerf just because the community thinks it should and one that gets the same skill nerfed and buffed back and forth w/o end.


Shade Q: 70/130/190/250 +50% WD

W: Removes From Battle Field for 1.5 secs & Slows/Hastes 15/20/25/30 for 2.5 secs

E: Increases range by 1.8/2.2/2.6/3.0 and MS by 2/4/6/8%

R: Shroud 4u across that blinds for 2 secs & increases TS 10/20/30% for 4 secs


Zeratul Q: 30/60/90/120 +100% WD

W: Increases damage by 30/45/60/75% AGI when hitting target from behind

E: Planar Void, stuns and pulls target

R: 4u Chronosphere for 3/4/5secs


Shades Q will likely do 500 damage towards the end of the game, Zeras Qwill most likely get about the same cuz usually my shade build is about 500-600 wd, and my zeras around 400-500

the vortex and planar can be about equal in comparison both have their perks, but I'd def say planar can be useful in more cituations. the Unfolding Fate and Stepping Strikes can be equated about equal shade can keep sustain on but in a team fight the higher damage would be more helpful, from Zeras UF, but I'll somewhat equate these. When we get to the Ultimates tho, Bubble is way more useful and way more op, it keeps the target mostly inplace and u can get prolly about 8-10 hits in with a good WS, more not taking TimeScale into account, on the other hand, shades ultimate is the same radius, and they can fight back @ half the duration, sooner with a scan and u'll be lucky if it gets you 2-3 extra hits in, maybe 4-5 with a good vortex and a stun knife, but I'm not going to include stun knife hits, as you would get them anyways only maybe the one extra you'd get from the bonus TS while using it in the ulti. I'm not even going to get into base damage reduction, WTF is wrong w/ you?


So just a quick comparison of chars that are relatively equal across the board in skills but then at the end you feel the need to nerf one of the bottom tier ultimates. Shade is good, and easy to kill w/ sometimes, but not dying is the key, and his ultimate has always IMHO one of the least powerful ulties and u nerfed vortex which synergized to help it as well, nerfing the q I can somewhat agree with you on comparing it to Zera atleast, but not on relation to some others. While we are on the subject btw of nerfing ulties, compare boros ulti to zera as well and nerfing it was completely retarded. You have to get them decently alone, it does 8 hits at max, which is about equal to zera's hits in his ulti, zera is getting all of hit on-hits, can use abilities during it, 100% of his WD and 75% of his agi to each hit which should be atleast the 150 bonus damage that boros currently gets, and you cant really do much to either about their ulti alone, zera can be stopped but someone outside the ulti, but boros ulti usually wont kill 2 good players even before the patch, unless they cant even be bothered to get 1 hp item or even a galatic, most ulties will also kill you or enable killing you and alot of the times u have to q and r to get a kill late game, which take cow for instance what does he do? Q+R=GG, Jakk is lockbox E switch E 2-3 AA's or less and dead. This is all comparison towards squish, and boros against a tank is not anywhere near the best tank killer AGI for that matter, but you nerf for no other reason, than peeps that cant take it that their 1 char they play, or the 1 they are currently playing loses against it, or they are just terribad.


Rancor Op, Boros OP, Shade OP, but that Stukov, and that Rory, and that Cain are all perfectly balanced right?


A few game mechanics changes that nerfed chars that you prolly didnt realize. Creep waves spawning faster patch from August yr before last nerfed boros ability to ulti in lane and snowball by alot. Reducing XP from Jungle creeps, nerfed every carry in the game. Shadowmourne change just nerfed every bruiser in the game on top of carries that used it, QQ my poor Balrog! Theres others as well but i wanted to mention those because they pertain to heroes mentioned above.


Any melee AGI carry is pretty much getting unusable, trying to touch stukov w/ pretty much any melee is tryhard, and trying to kill him or even frop him below 50% before he pops you? Ugh. I'm all for a challenge, but impossible games, unless you play 1 of 3-4 op chars that never get fixed because they are INT and the devs are inlove with INT and like to take a big long diareah shaps on AGI. I like switching between the STR and the INT and the AGI, but the ranged AGI-carries like darpa and nova have no challenge to play them well, so I dont play them, but now ugh, its even hard to play alot of the str heroes againt these rediculous INTs.

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^^ If int could take out towers as fast as an agi can, you would see 5 int heroes every game.


I think the reason why agi is so popular in pubs is that you can finish the game with them, with int you may have alot of fun and have high kills (if you are int burst) but you dont have much power to finish the game.

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=.= not sure if shadow player..... Or simply mad

STR, INT, and Melee AGI player so yes I play shade, and its annoying to have a fun char to play get flobed over for no good reason, and making them not very fun to play in alot of games.


INT op AGI up


that's why every pub game has 2-3 agi per team and 2-3 str per team


with luck you will find 1 int hero in a game


Actually most games now i see 2-3 INTs and 2-3 STR it comes down to who has a pusher on their team like unix and gara (usually gara) on who wins now. Its really hard to get towers down now as AGI, especially as melee because an int like maar or stukov pops in and rapes you, especially stukov Q+W and 9 times outa ten you cant even toggle a galactic fast enough to save your ass, and trying to get away when stukov has a built in slow is impossible, if you have a cloak and hit it in time he can cast ulti on a creep near you and it will still bounce to u, even if your cloaked. Oh and yes I have seen this, many times, and knowing i hit cloak before he hit ulti. With every new hero getting some form of CC as of late its near impossible for any carry to play vs a team with 2 especially 3 INT, you get stopped from finishing heroes very often by CC, and more often you cant even engage because you'll be on CC lockdown. CC is suppose to be rare on abilities, not just something that everyone has, it's also usually by itself. not this initial hit + DOT + CC all in one, as a flobing Q ability, as an ulti even then its rare or should be, but as a flobing Q ability, thats just op.


Just to Clarify what I'm talking about.


Stukov's Q: Does 60/110/160/210 +30% INT and applies poison for 2/3/4/5secs, if he gets 1 aa off ull be slowed for 2 secs because your poisoned


Shade Q: 70/130/190/250 +50% WD

W: Removes From Battle Field for 1.5 secs & Slows/Hastes 15/20/25/30 for 2.5 secs

& a Pyre: 7% of Current Health


It takes shade making it to melee range and 2 of his abilities and an item to = Stukov's 1 of his abilities and the pyre is current health not max health, which we alll know is a huge difference, tell me how the flob that is balance. I keep using shade as an example because everyone seems to think he's op all the time, even with the current nerfs they think he still needs more, and that boros still needs his ulti nerfed, its just pure douchebaggery.


Seriously 2 abilities and an item which would have to be proc'd 5 times to even get equivalent to the ticks of that ability, and its still not even close, oh lets not even get into that his W takes off 50% of your damage from TIER 1, TIER flobING 1!

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^^ If int could take out towers as fast as an agi can, you would see 5 int heroes every game.


I think the reason why agi is so popular in pubs is that you can finish the game with them, with int you may have alot of fun and have high kills (if you are int burst) but you dont have much power to finish the game.





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You sure that its aos you play? Without an agi in a game it sounds actually retarded to me

Why do you need an AGI w/ a team comp like Gara/Unix/Queen(Queens not very popular right now tho), Jackson/Medic/Egon/Maar/Raynor/Cyprus(Cyprus being the least popular right now), Cain/Cow, Stukov and Micro/MK/Drake/Balrog, which is the common team comps im seeing lately.


There is no agility in any of those builds and Rancor is also common in the jackson/med/etc slot as well, and hes and AGI but doesnt play like a typical carry/AD/AA AGI he is more of an INT burster. Cain can drop a tower with 1-2 ulties raynor can take towers down surprisingly fast so can cyprus as well especially with an energy saber.


Edit: Also if any char, which is currently Stukov, is in every game you know its op, and if its on both teams 9 outa 10 games you know its unbelievably op, most of the time, sometimes its just because its easy or easier to play, which also is sometimes both. Shade is easier to play as far as getting kills then alot of chars, not dying to get those kills and streaks are the harder part, nova is also on the easy to play scale and easier to get away/kite/juke because she is ranged and has a built in engage/disengage.Darpa is pretty much the same as nova in this respect as well. CC rapes shade, and can be countered very easily, nova and darpa however can get away from CC heavy teams. You can also sit there and argue w/ me all day about boros but alot of the time to kill you he has to lan his bola to pull you outa the crowd/tower/creeps then q and ulti to actually kill you, unless he catches you in a bad spot/good spot for him, and since hes an ASSASSIN class thats what he should be able to do. So say hes easy and op all you want but like I said he doesnt just R to win all game, even before the ridiculous nerf he just got.


Boros also sees alot of play time, or atleast did because he countered INT heroes, and thats just blasphemy apparently, even tho there are plenty of Carry/AGI counters, but we nerf a strong INT counter because the INT players QQ about a char being able to counter their OP bullshap.


I also believe the 50% to 30% reduction on the barbed plating was bullshap too, so I'm not just fighting for the rights of AGI, but atleast it's not just one more thing on top of the bs for an AGI to overcome. Boros ulti should've never got nerfed, after the last one, lowering the amount of hits down to 8 was good balance but going from 100% to 50% is overly dramatic, and I have no respect for that kind of nerf, going down to 70-80% woulda been more reasonable and ida atleast felt like they were trying to balance it, and not just shap on the char, even tho even that I don't think would been needed. His bola range nerf, and max pull nerf was retarded considering brines and drakes never got nerfed and brines is a non-skill shot pull or a "free pull", but I'll take the damage buff and deal with that, atleast there was some counter balancing to that.

Edited by PhoenixRajoNight
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I agree that agi doesnt carry as well. The most fun heroes to play, especially for new players, are getting constant nerfs, whereas heroes for inhousers are getting buffs. Most pushers make this game boring. Nukers are getting constant buffs. New shadowmourne is another killer vs agi. And i dont see anti burst heroes in the pool (a hero that lowers spell damage).

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