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Un-auto ban MK, Shade, Dehaka


ginosaji
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As the ttitle says... A few people having already said it, but I want to certralize the discussion. These heroes should be un auto banned. Dehaka got movespeed nerf and Ult nerf. MK got minion nerf, COA nerf, and heroic nerf (FB). Shade got Q nerf, Ult Change, movespeed nerf and passive nerf. I don't think any of these heroes are overpowered anymore, but it's impossible to test that since they still haven't been tested IH.

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What heroes do you think should be autoed then??

 

Egon? Rancor?

 

We can retest these heroes for sure. I will drop the list of auto's to nothing. And we will see what new autos are developed

 

Shadowmourne Garamond Still broken?

Dial Micro should still be a problem.

 

LB Boros I think has been fixed for a while

Edited by Sphynx
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+90% timescale for shadow doesn't looks like nerf.

 

What is your point?

 

Also yes. None of these heroes have been played. Enough in their new format. Dehaka isnt even the best tank initiator and he is banned...

 

Mk and shadows problem is really just a problem with split push as opposed to the heroes. Which I honestly think is down to the players as opposed to heroes. We have become good at split pushing and are yet to develop the correct strategy to counter it.

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I think the solution to split pushing is rooted more in a lack of variety of heroes/items available to directly counter push comps/strategies. We really can't keep asking for to nerfed Shad and MK until they become impotent and useless (see: Egon from a few weeks ago and Immo), which is the direction they could be heading in if they remain autobanned.

 

SM Gara and Dial Micro are still absurd, the former is mainly because of the item's synergy with heroic passives and the latter because Micro is already the most perfect initiator, with dial it becomes too much of a good thing.

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What heroes do you think should be autoed then??

 

Egon? Rancor?

 

We can retest these heroes for sure. I will drop the list of auto's to nothing. And we will see what new autos are developed

 

Shadowmourne Garamond Still broken?

Dial Micro should still be a problem.

 

LB Boros I think has been fixed for a while

Shadowmourne Gara should still be banned. Dial may actually be fine on micro now with new cooldown. It's up on other heroes that used to get it so maybe it's balanced with micro. No to autoing egon no to rancor. Rancor is too strong but not super OP. If anything it shifts the favor of the draft a little bac towards balanced. First pic had a really strong advantage in the past month or two. Now with 4ish T1 pics it helps 2nd pic out alot.
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Lockbox boros has been fixed; lockbox is range is too short for it to be a threat anymore.

 

Shadowmourne gara is still extremely broken, and dial micro is still a big problem too. I don't think rancor is broken to the point of auto, but a 3s stun is very powerful. Egon is also extremely powerful; i dont know if they are powerful enough to be autoed yet, but if the heroes are op in the new rules, then you should take action sphynx.

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they were autoed cuz theyre not fun to play with

imo unix is a better pick than all 3 of them but unix is fun to play and dehaka is not

 

The heroes are auto banned because they are not fun to play with?

 

Here's what I've heard.

Dehaka: pops ult and tunnels out so people can't secure the kill. AUTOED

MK: pushes a tower quickly because the lane is left unattended (even though slower than garamond and unix). AUTOED

Shadow: pushes and wins a 1v1 or easily runs away when you send the whole team. AUTOED

 

Honestly many people don't even know why they are auto banned. It is simply the unsupported standard.

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Vortex too strong. Mk too strong as a whole.. Level 6 ult has like 900 health on firebat or some shap and it's like another hero.. Coupled w aura for aas and damage output as a team unit is good. Dehaka is analogous to old bio how he could pop in and shap on opposing team and get out alive. Can you imagine late game dehaka ult coupled w a cheap life tech. shap.

 

They have been watered down to where they might be more manageable but nobody wants to even mess with them because people like to see drastic changes from unfavorable mechanics

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When do you see people massively benefiting from MK's 18% weapon speed buff? His ult is the only thing that gives him a presence. His Q stucks, marines are OK, W sucks. And the damage output on his Ult is strong. How is this deserving of an auto ban?

 

Dehaka is a tank who is hard to kill, but offers such little damage. As far as team contribution he has a short pull and a slow. So he is autoed because he is hard to kill?

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People auto shap cause too strong and they stay autoed because watering down the hero doesnt give people enough incentive to be like oh hey lets reintroduce mk and have derp comps again even if he might be okay now

 

So heroes are no longer too strong but remain autoed because people don't want to play them?

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It's like the real issues never got addressed in other words. Like shade is more manageable now with split pushing because can be seen on minimap, but still receives no consequence with instantaneous vortex escape along with shade. Mks team damage output got watered down and cant take towers as fast anymore alone, but the real issue was his one dimensionality as well (immortal). Dehaka has a cool concept, but hes just a little too much of everything.. making his ult 20/30/40% max hp regen was a step in the right direction, but being too hard to kill with so much mobility and cc could be an actual issue lol..

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Unix can own them all 1v1, in team fights, and in splitpushing, same with tassadar. Just saying there are other heroes with the same level of gayness that aren't autoed while these are. The difference is mk shadow and dehaka require no skill and it is not fun to lose to something the enemy has invested very little time into mastering. Mk and dehaka have no advanced mechanics and IMO should have a rework.(we all know no one is going to be reworked, therefore we autoban) Tass and shadow are pretty much the same hero, but Tass isn't banned cuz no1 plays it currently.

Edited by Revision
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I adopt autobans with the community which logically just follows what Gino/Quidditch/Hydrator agree are the autos.

 

Generally speaking Many players played MK. MK was very hard to kill 1on1; Strong in lane; Strong against towers; Hard to kill.

Eventually MK not only was racking up a lot of kills in these games, Towers would fall quickly. Game over.

-Is this a result of us not being able to deal with tower pushers? (don't know) - But Unix/Gara were not doing the same thing to us.

-Did we just have a very good MK player? (No several players could do this)

I heard teams suggest him as auto-ban. I agree.

 

Basically If i start to notice a trend, that 1 character is responsible for winning in-house games again and again and again… Then that character is on a short list for auto banning.

 

Now A lot of the old autos have been nerfed, so they should all be unautoed and checked again. I agree.

 

So far 2 Characters have stuck out in the last 2 weeks:

 

Rancor

Egon.

 

Should they be Autoed? Not 100% sure, but they are both VERY strong.

 

Greelus has a cool ult, but most talents on him still are bad.

 

I have also for a while suggested nerfs to both Micro and Nova

Edited by Sphynx
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MK seems pretty weak in lane, is outshined by other unix and garamond, gets raped 1v1 by many heroes, and has nothing that inherently makes him hard to kill.

No one has played MK in an IH for at least 3 months...

 

@Sphynx: Yea egon and Rancor are a little strong, I don't think they are autoban worthy at all though. Both are getting small nerfs in the next patch, we'll see where they settle after that. Unix and gara totally outshine MK in every aspect except maybe raw HP. Unix is especially strong. I agree with what speedo said in another thread, his eggs need to be nerfed somehow, they should be vulnerable while hatching for at least some damage. Maybe you could give them 50% resist during hatching or something. As they are now though, you can get damage on a tower every wave not matter how well defended.

Edited by ginosaji
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The 3 second decloak change red made was reverted by eco in the beta back to 1 second on rancor. The snipe is still 2.4 seconds soley because cain has a 2.1 second aoe stun and lurker has a 2.2 second aoe stun. In retrospect a single target 2.4 stun doesn't seem as op.

 

Garamond's towers no longer add the % physical and spell damage amp to towers.

 

Shadowmourn no longer procs a clone of your self. But makes a clon of the target you shoot. So shadowmourn being op on grunty / jakk/ gara will no longer exist.

 

 

 

Were supposed to some time in the near future get a new version of paralax. That from what i understand. The debuff will last for 5 seconds. And it will be a toggle more or less. But every time you use it you lose 15-20% max mana. And you cant use it if your currently being silenced or stunned.

 

This item will greatly reduce the effectivness in stuns and such. This is another reason why eco is hesitant to further nerf the cc on the complained about heroes.

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the only heroes i feel should be auto now is dehaka ( because in the few games weve unbanned him he was nearly unkillable unless we had a tosh,unix,or someone with a lot of cc ) and egon(pre-beta) dont even think i need to say why egon should be auto'd because most should know by now.

 

shadow doesnt even bother me anymore i feel like his nerfs put him in a more balanced state.

mk is boring as flob so hardly anyone plays him anyway and like said in other posts gara and other pushers are better then he is

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