Skydie Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 First non-troll topic I've made in a while.. Most people agree that the only 2 viable paths for damage on Darpa/Nova are Barb/Pyre builds. Personally I find a damage based build scales better with Darpa (and his W) and the same for Crit and Nova. I believe I was the first player to recognize that Pyre isn't staple and isn't required on all heroes at the time this drew laughter but as time proved I was correct. The main bonus for Nova is, if you combine the Lethal barb with Contamination shard - the power is incredible. Mid-Game your damage output is huge and this leads for good potential to snowball and destroy. I've tried Crit on Darpa but I've found it's less rewarding than weapon damage/speed. I mean especially with the new changes a lot of Darpa style play revolves around hit and run and less prolonged AA (Nova's +1 range bonus is useful in these situations). Anyways what does everyone else think? Props to Rango/John for telling me about Barb/Contam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EterNity Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Getting Prye is always the better route to go if against a proper team. It offers decent weapon speed and an anti-tank unique in the mid game. LB is heavily relies on your ability to stay on target for at least two seconds and also your ability to do critical consistently. Since Starcraft II is using true random, there is chance that you are not going to do critical even with the unique passive from Boros or Nova. Also, the weapon speed on the Pyre works on buildings while LB does not proc at all. Overall, Prye is more reliable than Lethal Barb and should always be considered first. This is speaking of the current version of AoS not the Beta. The changes in Beta completely change the Meta on almost all right-click Hero and should be discussed on different thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwarts Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 2 Months ago. Heck even a month ago i would of told you pyre is always the best choice. But now im pretty convinced that Lethal is the better option. In pubs and In house games. Of course im talking about builds for Darpa and Nova. But with the next beta going live shortly. You will see a huge increase into Cirt builds. And you will see a significant decrease in pyre purchases. This is my opinion for NA in houses at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidChan Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 next patch = byebye pyre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EterNity Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Next patch, Crit = OP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabrielmcg Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 So are we going to start seeing a crit summers build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTHER Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 If crits become OP, wouldn't that make Boros SUPER OP?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 If crits become OP, wouldn't that make Boros SUPER OP?! this one time i tried to go negative as boros by running at the enemies base straight from pool non stop sadly every time i got a kill using my ulti without fail if not 2 kills... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Getting Prye is always the better route to go if against a proper team. It offers decent weapon speed and an anti-tank unique in the mid game. LB is heavily relies on your ability to stay on target for at least two seconds and also your ability to do critical consistently. Since Starcraft II is using true random, there is chance that you are not going to do critical even with the unique passive from Boros or Nova. Also, the weapon speed on the Pyre works on buildings while LB does not proc at all. Overall, Prye is more reliable than Lethal Barb and should always be considered first. This is speaking of the current version of AoS not the Beta. The changes in Beta completely change the Meta on almost all right-click Hero and should be discussed on different thread. I really disagree with ur statement about Pyre being better than Lethal on NOVA. As for a proper game ( assuming a no-braindead guy is playing nova now): 1). The nova will have high priority on the farm / most likely a solo easy or jungle. You'll be getting a lethal earlier than ur pyre, not only will this speed up your farming a ton allowing you to assemble next items quicker than with a pyre. It will also dish out more damage in teamfights compared with the pyre, and even if the 50% + unique vs 100% wep speed might be debatable against a tanks, most people will have between 1-2k hp when pyre / lethal is bought. The difference between the efficient gets more obvious as u stack ur next items on nova, exe axe and cont shard. Also looking at novas W the extra crit damage obviously works better with the lethal compared to the pyre. 2) You said that sc2 is using some true random thing, but I fail to see how the 100% crit chance from nova isn't going to proc the lethal in a team fight? It's not like you wont have an orb to proc it at ur first hit... 3) And as for the statement regarding hitting towers only an idiot wouldn't continuously reactivate the 100% wep speed buff by switching from attacking enemy creep / deny ur own creep and back to building. The only reason when this can't be done is if ur backdooring I guess. Which is mostly done in a later stage of the game where this isn't going to make a difference anyway. 4) In a proper game your opponents will most likely build a chilling around mid game, which makes the lethal even a better choice compared to pyre. SayMyName 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantypoo Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 2 Months ago. Heck even a month ago i would of told you pyre is always the best choice. But now im pretty convinced that Lethal is the better option. In pubs and In house games. Of course im talking about builds for Darpa and Nova. But with the next beta going live shortly. You will see a huge increase into Cirt builds. And you will see a significant decrease in pyre purchases. This is my opinion for NA in houses at least. Why exactly is crit so much more viable now? I havent gotten to play on the new patch, I just skimmed the notes? Is it solely because of the change on Arcbound? pchacker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwarts Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Why exactly is crit so much more viable now? I havent gotten to play on the new patch, I just skimmed the notes? Is it solely because of the change on Arcbound? Pyre falls off a lot late game. Its not really that effective as jon said because most heroes only have 2k ish health mid game. Chilling effects it greatly. Every IH some one has bought chilling by the time u farmed pyre. Getting that early contam seems to work just as well vs tanky heroes and squish heros alike. Where pyre his dimishing returns. Contam is a constant damage base on your own weapon dmg that scales higher and higher as the game goes on. Its not really about the crits as its about the weapon speed and the damage. Going lethal barb arc bound will give u a consistent 145% wep speed and great damage. I honestly see NA inhouses going this build. Hunter Hatchet, Machete Culling Saber Lethal Contam Shard or Galactic or Explosive, Building Reactive to the current needs of the game Arc Bound. "Some might opt to buy a crit component for this item before contam. From there building reactive. I.E Darwins, Paralax, ShadowMourn. Then finally finishing with a Kali Blade. Relying on Contam and Crits to deal true damage. Compared to the 5% current health spell damage of pyre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGrim Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 That was the go to pub build for a while for darpa/nova but it was criticized for being a glass cannon. I guess the new meta lets caries be so greedy which is nice Mus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mus Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 That was the go to pub build for a while for darpa/nova but it was criticized for being a glass cannon. I guess the new meta lets caries be so greedy which is nice Roflmao that is actually Skydie's build. It uses to get heavily criticised, until now... MrGrim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGrim Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Roflmao that is actually Skydie's build. It uses to get heavily criticised, until now... Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knight. (I had to remove silent bc tbh he's not really all that quiet is he) Andres 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginosaji Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Crit (lethal) on Nova and Boros was always viable due to their mechanics. Nova, because of her 100% crit chance and Boros because of increased crit chance and he builds kali anyway, so you don't have the debate on whether to buy axe along with it. Pretty much every other hero is going to need executioner's axe to get theri crit chance up if they want to use it as an effective teamfight item early/mid game. The question on Nova is whether or not you can afford to not have a pyre, it always has been. If the other team has a lot of mid game tankiness or zoning with tanky heroes and you don't have anyone else to carry a pyre, Nova is going to need to do it. If not, take a barb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynhauzen Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Roflmao that is actually Skydie's build. It uses to get heavily criticised, until now... I've seen at least 3-4 other players that did this, including John, Paradox, and Pikachu. I was building this as well, but for heavily bashed few months ago for not getting pyre every game.. wtf :D SayMyName 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EterNity Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 META changes for every patch! That's unique to AoS! We are constantly changing the META so every patch will feel like a new game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginosaji Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) I've seen at least 3-4 other players that did this, including John, Paradox, and Pikachu. I was building this as well, but for heavily bashed few months ago for not getting pyre every game.. wtf :D The community always decides on an accpeted "optimal build" for a hypothetical ideal game. You will always be criticized when you deviate. I was one of those people that criticized people for building barb a few months ago. The refining of people's understanding of the meta is what I think has changed. People understand when to go pyre and when not to a little better now since the meta has settled more since the items updates. The other thing to remember is that DST and Buckler were much stronger a few months ago, which made lethal weaker as an option and having a pyre even more needed mid game. A few months ago, with as strong as DST was, you need a pyre midgame or the enemy tank/initiator would have zero threat and proceed to roflstomp your team . Now tanks are relatively weaker than they were a few months ago so your team can deal with them in most cases without a pyre present. Edited March 25, 2014 by ginosaji mynhauzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxHaven Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Let me say because I know Skydie wants to... flob y'all braindead hating on crit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydie Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Let me say because I know Skydie wants to... flob y'all braindead hating on crit Well if I'm being honest it wasn't all my idea, I stole/refined it from Yaldi :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Feb 10th I posted this after a few months of no one noticing. http://www.aeonofstorms.com/index.php?/topic/5302-today-lets-make-a-list/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydie Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Feb 10th I posted this after a few months of no one noticing. http://www.aeonofsto...ts-make-a-list/ Other people were mentioning this months ago..[the following post is an example of such] It's only decent on Balrog, Boros, Nova, and Lurker. AA lurker sucks, Crit Balrog with Barb is very weak and doesn't hold up against a competent team. So that leaves Nova and Boros. On Nova it's decent if you can sit there and farm all game, but you usually wouldn't be able to do that as your team will suffer without you. On Boros it's not quite as good, but isn't terrible. The issue is that rushing it leaves you weak in the HP area. Even though Gino is incorrect about a few things in the IH community there were discussions about Barb VS Pyre many months prior to this topic. I decided to make the post after noticing barb was a lot prevalent in this tourney meta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwarts Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 For me the change in the meta skydie is because people started buying chilling much much earlier. Having the 100% on lethal over the 50% on pyre helps greatly mitigate the effectiveness of chilling. In your average na ih chilling was bought pretty late in the game. But now its bought as a first item if not 2nd by a lot of people. More or less in the same window of time nova or darpa would get pyre mynhauzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginosaji Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I was wrong about Barb on Boros as well... It's incredible on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynhauzen Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) I had a discussion about lethal in november with MAX players. They stated that its so much better than a pyre. But I personally started to use it after John's shadow/nova builds, which was probably in october-november too. And I've seen a ton of people in pubs using it all the time and a bunch of inhousers making fun of players like that. I think that most agi players tried lethal in the very beggining, but realized that it just doesnt work well vs old OP dst. I agree, its due to chilling early + dst being stronger in the past. Edited April 1, 2014 by mynhauzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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