Darpa jump CD a little too long

[SourDiesel]

I get the idea of the change on his jump to eliminate darpa's ability to just jump in and out of battle with no consequences for poor positioning.

 

But, I think 60 seconds is just too massive of an increase on the CD. The jump is supposed to be Darpa's ultimate (theoretically: strongest) ability. And yet, I would trade Darpa's jump for nova's vanish in a heartbeat.

 

The CD is so long that you can hold back two waves on a tower and still not have it back up when you need it. Nova, on the other hand, can vanish once per wave, which is huge when you're trying to protect a tower against a sustained siege versus a team with a one or more good pulls. For example, if you're playing against tass/brine you can expect that he will try to trade/pull with darpa/nova. If the seige lasts three waves and Nova gets pulled every wave, she will be able to vanish every time - the other team will require well-timed CC to combo with the pull in order to kill her. Darpa, on the other hand, will escape the first pull, but then must survive two waves without getting pulled at all before he can escape again.

 

IMO the CD should be shortened to 40-45 seconds. At that rate, Darpa is still restricted to one jump per battle, but it also means he will always get one jump per battle. Not like now, where the jump is frequently still down from the previous engagement.

Edited March 18, 2014 by SourDiesel

[OPReN]

http://www.aeonofsto...titive-anymore/

read what high wrote :C

Edited March 18, 2014 by OPReN

[SourDiesel]

http://www.aeonofsto...titive-anymore/

read what high wrote :C

 

I have. I couldn't post on that thread because it got locked, so I had to start a new one. Hopefully one that doesn't get derailed by personal attacks and stays focused on the balance issue at hand. I also understand what the devs are trying to do with lengthening the cooldown on jump, and I'm totally on board with that change. What I'm saying is that the change was far too extreme. We went from a 7 second cooldown at level 16 to a 60 second cooldown.

 

highdrater mentioned that the purpose was so that Darpa could jump once per battle, but the reality is that the cooldown is so long now that frequently by the time the next engagement begins you're still counting down the seconds until the CD is over. I know a lot of people will respond with, "just don't let yourself get out of position and it's not a problem". If you never end up out of position, you're playing too conservatively and probably not doing as much damage as you could/should be. As an AA carry you're a glass cannon, in order to fully utilize that damage you need to take some calculated risks or else you'll spend the whole battle watching from the back. Your ability to take good risks is dramatically reduced when your escape mechanism is down.

 

Nova's vanish (a regular ability) is now substantially better than Darpa's ultimate (jump), because she truly can use it once per battle which translates into her being able to take more calculated risks and ultimately doing a lot more damage. I'm not advocating for going back to a 7 second cool down, I just feel that 60 is far too long. I think the sweet spot is somewhere in the 35-45 second range. If the range on the jump needs to be nerfed to compensate for the lower cooldown, that is fine.

[highdrater]

Yeah I feel ya man . Give it a little time though to see how DARPA plays out because the unit increase made the scaling on the levels of his ult better and he can literally Michael Jordan leap behind his tank if he gets in trouble in a team fight no matter where he is. 30-45 seconds could be a better number we will see.

[zeeeend]

You mean give it a little more time as in next patch once tournament is over ? Cause i can live with that. I just dont understand why we didn't give the 30 seconds nerf a better time to see how it works out.

[highdrater]

Yeah, not doing changes until after tourney so nobody gets thrown off their game

[SayMyName]

If You dont wanna make or darpa being ultra mobile carry (5-8sec blink-buildin ability, which is possible and viable with proper balance- enough cc/silence in game with proper balance of dmg/tankiness ratio ingame and design/mechanics allowing to fight vs splitpushing). But prefer to have higher-stronger jump. Then CD should be around 30 sec

 

CD being at 30 sec mark means that you can use ability (most of the time) at the start of engagement and at the end of teamfight (sometimes).

 

Darpa stopped being chaser (and also kitting hero). His ult is only to get out (if wanted to play him not stupitidly) Very rarely to pick off last hero.

 

 

60 second cd is high. It even often means that there is new engagement going on and you dont have ability/item ready.

For darpa ulti is like non-acceptable in proper design (kinda of a joke)

 

Its the same thing with items like impact dial/warpshard and other similiar items. Changing impact to 60 sec means that many initiators can initiate only ONCE and not even every teamfight/scirmish occurs. This lowers greatly they're potential, viablness, usefullness, make them kinda "one trick pony"

Better example to understand is when You have current balrog in team, supposed tank but with very high cds on skills. So he cant put enough pressure as a hero and as a tank. He isnt really scary. He need to cast W when team needs and he is then useless for most of the teamfight (not completly correctly, cause he is aura-carrier). Why for example dehaka is better "tank" iniatior? Because lower cds (also higher danger zone-iniation range and better cc/counter carry abilites but lets avoid this for purpose and sake of example), so you cannot "ignore dehaka" like you can ignore balrog, because dehaka will be doing things, iniating, slowing, dealing some dmg.

 

For iniators and those items to be balanced their cds needs to be on 30 sec cd , so you can use it twice on longer teamfights, or every fast skirmish that it would occurs.

 

For those items to be overpowered (heroes start being very elusive, countering many things by ez access to hyper mobility on any hero, esp on heroes that shouldnt get it, for example long range nukers like dustin, raynor) those items would need to have cds lower then 30. Really ez to see problems starting to occur when cds of items like that become around 20-10sec cd

 

From reasoning of Red why he is changing the cds on those items is because they can be game/teamfight breaking. Yes items like impact dial, lockbox, taser, sword breaker etc can be strong and can be game/teamfight breaking. But its correct thing that those items are strong when used at correct time and situation. This enables supports to be able to support ingame. Make plays, be usefull, esp with lower amount of farm On top lvl it will be almost always (most of the time) supports that win teamfights (carries will have dmg anyway, silmiar often in some degree). For those items to be "broken" their cds would need to be lower then its required time to kill somebody as a carry (most of the time below 10 sec) then it goes to situation that its not possible to kill anybody. I could agree on increasing cost of impact dial to 1,9k or 2k around and that would be ok way of balance. Currently support items are strong/good (counting also aura items) and its good for game. But have in mind that other items are also strong. Overall items in AoS are strong. Dmg items are strong also and have their purposes, roles (previous meta was lacking this badly). Same with int items etc

 

There was a little problem that game was played "mostly by items" not by heroes and their skillset design, but I see its going back to degree that heroes are also getting stronger (track, road of balance). And thats really good.

When there are strong heroes, strong items (having roles , advantages, puproses, one thing countering other, this also makes timings etc etc) game is just fun and entertaining and competetive.

 

CDs around 60-90sec are good to occur in strong teamfight ultimates (for example zera ulti, drake epi etc etc) So you can have it only once in teamfight, or not even every teamfight (if you didnt win teamfight and waste those ultimates, enemies have timing window)

 

Obviously problem with balancing that thing in AoS is that there are items/stats reducing cds (timescale for items and abilities, cd reduction for abilities) so its needed to have it in mind

 

Another timing (for teamfights) is 5-10 sec. Its iniation of teamfight time. Its time when the most outcome of teamfight is being made (most impact). Its important for purposes of abilities like tosh ult, dehaka regen ult, helpful with balancing DoT ultimates. Im writting this timing just for learning purposes even if its not hitting exactly, straightly the topic and darpa.

 

 

 

For me it can be little suprising that its needed to write down and explain basic things about timings and how they work- they just do work like that (in moba type game, which AoS IS, cause it have heroes, items, towers, experience, gold, throne, creeps and pushing design, that some people try to negate badly cause of lack of understanding and arguments often, arguing for the sake of arguing and some ego instead of sake of balance and good game) especially for people that should have this knowledge and lvl of understanding, people that are responsible of game (having impact on it)

 

Obviously this sentance can sound bm but i dont write things for a reason to sheep on people. That would be just retarded. I dont care about personal stuff and taking things personal. What i care are facts, is things are correct or not, if they are good or not. If they are able to be going good or not.

How much value have personal emotions, feelings (fears, problems, biases) to value of product- here game (how its good and what is able, or will made it better). Game that plays hundrets of people and spend time on. Thats how i see stuff.

 

 

As for darpa changing his jump changed hero what he was and his role (being chaser, kitter, elusive hero). Darpa doesnt have high constant steroids skills (he have bonus dmg every few seconds only). Darpa have more supportish skillset (compared to nova, that its ez examples to compare). Darpa have silence, debuffs - that are support skills. Darpa was able to carry because of high moblity and being elusive (thats one of "carry attributes" you can have in moba), Being elusive increases time you can deal dmg and increases your tankibility/survivablity and splitpush ability (thats why attribute like this allows to carry). Together with his skillset he was less "support dependent" (but he doesnt bring as much dmg as for example nova. For not misunderstanding, grenade have mainly silence purposes, even if its 30% amp, it lowers your dmg output cause of cast animation and not attacking- its most of time 2-3 attacks less. Grenade its good for initiaion, when everybody can focus target. Or when You need silence to prevent escapes)

 

So when You remove darpa mobility and elusivness he is left with mostly support skills. It changes hero more to support role then a carry. (being agi hero doesnt make you instantly carry, good to carry).

 

Currently with 1 jump left you need to safe in case you need to jump darpa became trash tier.

With current strenght of jump darpa needs its cd to be around 30 (including having some basic cd redution item). So he can use it 2 times in longer teamfights. Or once every skirmish that is occuring.

 

I can also ensure that nova currently is also one of very often overrated heroes.

 

 

 

I can only hope that people will be able to understand things written here and see it. And hope it wasnt negative, hurt anybody. Maybe even somebody enjoying it.

Edited March 18, 2014 by SayMyName

[mynhauzen]

Totally agree, 30 secs sounds pretty good. Right now you cant really use ulti to chase, which is a bit odd. You have to either save it to run away or be 100% sure that no one will show up next 10 or so seconds.

[Hogwarts]

Totally agree, 30 secs sounds pretty good. Right now you cant really use ulti to chase, which is a bit odd. You have to either save it to run away or be 100% sure that no one will show up next 10 or so seconds.

 

 

that good.

 

A dps hero caught out of position should be a dead dps hero.

[Moo]

 

 

 

that good.

 

A dps hero caught out of position should be a dead dps hero.

Not if the hero is dependent on the mobility skill, which I feel darpa is. He has low range and no way to peel for himself. Even in LoL, most adcs have two of the following of the following: face-melting damage (jinx, kog, vayne), mobility (ezreal, vayne, lucian), long range (jinx, kog, tristana), self-peel (jinx, vayne, trist). Darpa is low range, has no self-peel, and low mobility (60 second cd is too long to make him mobile IMO). All darpa has is face-melting damage, and only when he has items. His silence is very good, but it doesn't save your life reliably when you are getting attacked by a tank or aa hero. Compare this to nova. Her e is on a low enough cd for her to be considered mobile (IMO), she has the longest range for an aa carry, she has self-peel from her ulti, and she has face-melting damage with items, same as darpa. In my opinion, that is why darpa should be buffed.