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Grass is Broken


TexasRaider
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At the moment, the only way to see into grass without standing in it is to place a ward inside of it. Well anyone with a TS can de-ward that, giving them a perfect place to hide. That doesnt sound too bad right? Wrong. This is really bad. Im going to use the grass on the side of the map as an example. At top there are 3 grasses fairly evenly spaced. Now lets say there is a nova or darpa up there backdooring, and the enemy come to kill them. That nova or darpa can run into the grass to hide. When the enemy comes to kill the nova/derpa, they have to enter the grass. The nova or darpa then gets 4-5 AA shots on the person entering before they jump/sprint to the next nearby grass. 4-5 shots is enough to kill most squishies. If they are tanky enough the stand 5 shots, they probably dont do enough damage to kill nov/darpa. Not only that, but they get to repeat the process by moving to another grass. Thats 2 free kills before the enemy team can even touch the nova/darpa. Should it take 3+ people to stop one person backdooring? Then the other 4 sweep through your towers.

 

As if this wasnt bad enough, take a character like summers or grunty. Both are SUPER powerful in the grass. Grunty because he can keep the enemy team out of the grass, and therefore makes himself unkillable, and summers because he can force people to walk through his slow to get him. Summers can also set up un-counterable mines in the grass. Once again, the only way to see into grass is to walk into it or place a ward in it (which requires walking into it) so if the grass is mined, you are guarenteed a kill. Either they will die walking into it/ warding it, or you can bait people into them. There is no way to kill these mines unless the jakk isnt watching them.

 

 

There are other heroes that can do op shap with grass too. Garamond gets a free set up with all 4 of his powers. Jackson gets an easy EQ combo. Bio can pop up without anyone knowing where he went. Shadow doesnt have to do a death run across empty space to get to his food. Cow can block people out while shooting them. Unix gets a free set up with marines fungal and ulti. The list goes on.

Edited by TexasRaider
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You can't win the game just sitting in the grass. If Nova or Derpa or whoever ducks into the grass, don't just follow them in and eat a machine gun sandwich... back off and either bait them out, use skillshots, or just let them sit there fapping in the tall grass as you take down their towers. If the enemy team has a Jakk, expect him to be mining the grass and always presume it to be dangerous and be ready to stop on a dime and back out at even the hint of a mine going off. If you know there are probably mines and know Jakk is watching, run to the grass as if you're going to go in, then juke back at the last moment; the Jakk player will probably blow his load early and waste his mines. Also, if you need to flush someone out of the grass, make sure it's your tank that goes in to do it. Intelligent strategy is always stronger than ineffectual flailing and that applies to both sides.

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You can't win the game just sitting in the grass. If Nova or Derpa or whoever ducks into the grass, don't just follow them in and eat a machine gun sandwich... back off and either bait them out, use skillshots, or just let them sit there fapping in the tall grass as you take down their towers. If the enemy team has a Jakk, expect him to be mining the grass and always presume it to be dangerous and be ready to stop on a dime and back out at even the hint of a mine going off. If you know there are probably mines and know Jakk is watching, run to the grass as if you're going to go in, then juke back at the last moment; the Jakk player will probably blow his load early and waste his mines. Also, if you need to flush someone out of the grass, make sure it's your tank that goes in to do it. Intelligent strategy is always stronger than ineffectual flailing and that applies to both sides.

 

You cant just ignore a darpa or nova. As soon as you leave they will keep split pushing. Not to mention they can 1v2 anyone without grass anyway. Thats the whole point. Also if you have both a tank and someone strong enough to take out the aa, they will just escape, and the other 4 people will crush towers and players.

 

I have not played LoL much, but i imagine its less broken there, or else no one would play it.

 

And for Jakk, your solution is not plausible. No one feints at every bush and every hill. Thats why jakk mines get kills. You cant just assume the bushes are dangerous and waste time trying to bait mines that may or may not be there. Most of the times you are heading for the bushes you are sneaking up on someone, running away from someone, or chasing someone. Your mind is not on mines in any case.

Edited by TexasRaider
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I understand your complaints. But i disagree with them all. Im glad bushes actually do something now. And tbh i enjoy this mechanic it provides new twist on the game. And i guess im a little bias because the bushes work more or less exactly like league. It took some getting used to but once im used to it i now prefer the mechanic.

 

If this issue become such a huge problem people might actually start to buy naurds eye.

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This is why a team of proper drafted hero is very important.

 

If you know someone is 100% hiding in one of the bushes because you properly warded, you can kill them easily with a toss, bola, or any initiator skills.

 

The bushes is part of the game and should be treated as so. You have to zone your enemies out of bushed area and it adds a lot more verities to the laning phase.

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well There was a cost decrease for some item that enables you to send in sentrys into the bushed of your lane.....................

 

it actually enables you to easily watch over 2-3 bushes of your lane and, unless they are ts warded, enables you to corner a hero hiding there nicely doesn't it

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Lol your point is that Nova can hide in the grass and pick people off as they walk in. If thats whats happening to your team then you deserve to lose. If your team catches Nova going into the grass you can just sit back and shoot all your ranged spells in until she leaves or dies.

 

Are you also going to complain that the guy on the elevation gets free shots on the guy walking up the hill? Its pretty much the same thing. You just have to learn to be careful and use teamwork/get creative when walking into grass, just like you can't walk up a hill without scouting it first or something.

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I like the mechanic overall. I especially like the bushes in the jungle, particularily between the jungle and lane. Texas has a point however, there may be too many bushes in the lane, promoting backdooring/making it safer for carries to lane solo. I haven't played all that much IH the last day or two, so I'll have to play some more to make up my mind on whether there are too many or not.

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Lol your point is that Nova can hide in the grass and pick people off as they walk in. If thats whats happening to your team then you deserve to lose. If your team catches Nova going into the grass you can just sit back and shoot all your ranged spells in until she leaves or dies.

 

Are you also going to complain that the guy on the elevation gets free shots on the guy walking up the hill? Its pretty much the same thing. You just have to learn to be careful and use teamwork/get creative when walking into grass, just like you can't walk up a hill without scouting it first or something.

 

no im complaining that there is the equivilent of an infinate number of hills.

Edited by TexasRaider
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With the old bushes, I loved to pull the Houdini on opponents. I'd run through the bushes being chased by an opponent, then time it so I run back out "just" as they are entering. He expects to see me there on the other side, only to find I've "vanished". If he's slow on the uptake, I can either get away clean or even turn the tables if I have un-targeted AoE or can get vision. Other times, it slows him down just enough for me to get out of a situation I wouldn't otherwise have survived. I find that the new change makes this harder since, while he's "inside" the bushes, he gets all-around vision; so my timing has to be even better.

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Well, the way it used to be, you only had vision of one side of the bush at a time with a small interval of no vision at all if you were right inside the bush. So the trick was to time it so you coordinate the timeframe where the vision fields "flip". It relies heavily on intuition and predicting the opponent's behavior so that we're both in the bush at the same time. Now, since you have vision all around while "in" the bush, I have a much smaller interval in which to act and I won't be able to fake them out completely since they'll see me, it's more to get them to "shift gears" which, while much less of a delay, is still a slight delay that I can take advantage of. I've been able to pull it off a couple of times, but it's far less reliable now than it used to be.

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honestly whenever someone went running into the bushes to escape before the change I would just do a quick hop in and out real fast because they all tried to same thing that midnight just mentioned. Doing that became useless because I came out of the bush at the exact moment they did. I like the changes other than I do find it easier for aa's to backdoor. question.... although, yes, there are counters to it, do novas and shadows need it any easier on them to backdoor? I mean its hard enough to counter without these complications.

Edited by Littleman
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honestly whenever someone went running into the bushes to escape before the change I would just do a quick hop in and out real fast because they all tried to same thing that midnight just mentioned. Doing that became useless because I came out of the bush at the exact moment they did. I like the changes other than I do find it easier for aa's to backdoor. question.... although, yes, there are counters to it, do novas and shadows need it any easier on them to backdoor? I mean its hard enough to counter without these complications.

If it really becomes a problem all the devs have to do is reduce the number of bushes along the lane.

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