[Ironhide.Cain v1.156] Can u feel the Hammer

[Straighter]

Ironhide.Cain

 

 

 

 

 

 

“It is better to be the hammer, than the anvil” - Emily Dickinson

 

 

 

 

 

Introduction:

Are u guys enjoying the guides? because it takes (much) time and ive heard only 3 ppl sayin they actually like it.

 

Cain is a ranged bruiser with one of the most unique mechanics in aeon of storms. His laning is one of the best of all heroes, his problem is that he cant carry games as good as others because he lacks speed. He offers nice cc and a mixture of physical and spell damage output.

I like to compare him with a hammer, he is kinda slow but stable and can deal a ton of damage.

 

 

 

Drafting:

There are many factors that u have to consider before u pick cain, he offers great dps/spell damage and is very tanky at the same time.

Ironhide is also a great combo with other stuns/slow like Unix, Rory, Justi, Brine ..., or can solo mid.

He can survive longer than nearly every other carry, but is pretty slow and has also problems vs heroes with special escape mechanisms ...

I would describe him as a good pick if you have already some mobility/initiation and need a combo for a slow/stun, but your team lacks tankyness and damage output. Heroes that have a good escape vs cain are: micro, bio, vorpal, zeratul, darpa, vergil ... and so on (blink as an escape)

The more heroes your enemy has that have a blink the harder it can get for cain to do damage.

I wouldnt pick him if the enemies team has too many heroes with blink escape.

Despite of being a carry he can also be played as tanky support if it is needed.

I would also make sure that u have at least one other hero in your team that can carry a pyre.

 

 

 

 

Talents:

 

1.

Might (+15 weapon damage)

Fury (+15% weapon speed)

Fitness (+180 health)

Integrity (+6 armor)

Swiftness (+6% movement speed)

Youth (+180 Energy)

 

The additional attack speed helps early, the energy is usefull too.

 

 

2.

 

Might (+15 weapon damage)

Fitness (+180 health)

Integrity (+6 armor)

Discipline (+7% spell resist)

Fortify (+Active)

Swiftness (+6% movement speed)

 

Allows u to be extremly tanky for such a high damage output, usually u will also have not much resist early to midgame so this can come in really handy.

If u have to be very tanky choose this option.

 

 

 

 

Skill build:

 

EWEQEREWWWRQQQstatsRstatsstats

 

U want to max barrage asap in order to do as much damage as u can. The first point in W is also twice as good as the once u follow it up with, and u usually wont need Q that early (also because even if u level Q first instead of W, u will still (most of the time) do more damage with one point in W)

Its possible to level Q a 2 time earlier if u need it.

 

 

Item build:

 

early game:

Buckler, not much to say about this, u need to be tanky and wont jungle anyway, u dont need to buy any attack speed items so anything else would not make sense.

thats usually all i build early, but there still different things i want to mention:

Goggles is playable early if u want to play tanky or plan on building one support item.

Lost treasure can give u a nice sustain and u can either build parallax, if u need it or explosive ... usually i buy it if i want to build explosive.

 

 

mid - late game:

Because cain is very item independet, u can do well with many item choices,

however the first bigger item i get nearly everytime is forces of entropy, this will not give us health and weapon damage (what cain needs), it will also combine great with our passive, allowing us to slow and stun our enemies forever if they come close.

Usually i follow it up by either carapace or a support item (most of the time korhal) ... u might ask why i wouldnt go ahead and add more weapon damage.

I do this because cain usually has enough dps early, because of his W and ultimate, that add great spell damage early, when noone has spellresist.

And another reason i buy this is because it will give us amazing regen and will allow us to tank nearly as much damage as tanks (what seems kinda ridiculous due to the fact that we are also a dps carry).

Pyre is needed most of the time, so i like to get it either after Foe or carapace.

After i have my three core items, my followup is also game dependent, do i need to go more tanky support? or is parallax a problem? then i like to get chilling, otherwise i like to go menace or shinobi, usually i suggest those as late late game items but cain is getting more and more speed problems the later the game goes, so like to go one of those after. Shinobi will also increase our damage output and menace is helpfull to get some spell resist.

cont shard and explosive are both helpfull later to add more damage and increase pushing power or the strength vs high resists.

 

 

 

additional items:

darksteeltitan is very helpfull vs aa carrys, parallax can counter debuff problems. galactic is nice to get some spell resist and more weapon damage.

energy saber has the most damage/cost, so u might consider getting it if u lack dps output later. shadowmourne can help lategame too.

darwins might is nice for its active. spell buffer or lifetech or both great ways to counter spelldamage.

 

pyre: ok u can play cain without pyre or with, i would always add pyre vs tanky teams because the additional spell damage is awesome vs high health pools, and is awesome because he has max weapon speed early.

if u bought a pyre and use your Q: make sure u dont break the ice after u hit, just walk closer to him so that u can still do a ton of damage.

 

 

 

core items:

 

 

(most of the time) + vs escapes (pretty often the case)

 

 

 

 

Abilities:

 

passive:

great! a strong slow, this allows u to dominate lanes. great with foe.

 

Q:

A strong stun, as long as noone attacks the target or u dont carry items like pyre/explosive/sliptide and so on. Interrupts channels, use that to your advantage.

 

W:

The source of your high damage output early.

 

E:

The reason why u are pretty item independent.

Its also the most difficult spell cain has if u want to play him to his fullest potential.

The time you have your weapon speed boost is higher than the cooldown of this spell, that means u can use it, attack and if u timed it perfectly u can instantly attack use it again. This is the way how u play him to his maximum, if u time it right. Learn this timing and u will do a good job with him.

 

 

R:

His most unique skill, the extra damage is amazing and allows u to 1o1 nearly everyone.

However it can be dodged with any kind of blink, so dont wait too long until u release the bullets. Even if u cant counter a blink right now, u can heavily damage a target if u time it right and let the bullets hit your target slightly before the ice breaks.

Its also great combined with menace, because u can chase your target forever and allow all your bullets to do the full extra damage.

 

 

Playstyle:

 

Since you combo most of the time, u just take your lane and last hit. Most of the time your laning partner is a better initiator so u should try to wait for your chance to slow and kite the target.

Your laning is amazing so dont be passive, stay active and harass. Always keep an eye on the cd of your passive, this allows u to nearly always hit your extra slow and get even better situations.

If u are laning vs a solo hero u should only last hit and not aa the creeps (only if u want to push).

You are also a pretty strong ganker, if u hit your Q your target is dead most of the time.

The perfect combo is this:

combo:

E (wait until cd remains only 5 to 4 seconds) -> Q -> activate ultimate -> aa and press E when ready again -> taser if the ice breaks and your target has an escape

-> release ultimate if u know ull kill your target

its pretty hard to time this perfect, but even without your E first u will probably be able to kill some targets early.

standart combo: Q then activate R and E and release ultimate after.

 

 

 

Teamfights:

 

positioning:

u want to be either next to your tank, or slightly behind.

 

Cain can tank a lot of damage so make use of that. constantly keep your E on cd to maximize your damage output.

If u can time it perfectly your damage output will be nearly twice as high.

Use Q to either initiate or cancel a channel, and R vs high health opponents.

Well and focus the most important target ....

Thats pretty much it =).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

as always feedback is welcomed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2014 by Straighter

[zeeeend]

You sure explosive brakes the ice ? It just seems that way because of fast dmg increase of explosive iirc

[Straighter]

You sure explosive brakes the ice ? It just seems that way because of fast dmg increase of explosive iirc

if u do enough damage to the "ice" u will break it,

cause explosive will add "instant" extra spell damage that isnt slowed with the bullet ull break the ice if u damaged it enough,

 

gonna rework the grammar issues later ... dont have time right now

[Yaldi]

Your guides are appreciated. Yes they are not perfect but they are better than what exists an influx of content is nice and they will help new players

[Straighter]

DID I ...........................................................JUST READ ................................................................NOT PERFECT ?????????????????????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

kiddin, thanks man!

 

btw its no problem to edit my guides, its just not doable to think of everything / sometimes i forget some stuff ... so just post here if u think i should mention / remove something.

[MrGrim]

What about CoA if no one else on the team has it? Khala stone after goggles+buckler+lt means you regen well enough to never leave lane

[solrflare]

I'll usually get COA on Cain. Usually start with a Buckler and then start building COA.

[Straighter]

i (nearly) never go CoA with cain.

u can get it as 2 big item but i would never take it as first.

Foe's unique combines awesome with passive, gives more health and far more damage,

if u time your E good enough u have max attack speed for 12 attacks, more than enough, so its kinda no reason that u need it, only if your allies need it imo and i wouldnt rush it.

carapace or korhal is also a better support imo, i would get spell buffer before coa too :o

because its active is great and u get some attack damage too

 

kerry would fit that better imo, rushing coa with kerry after buckler is a nice choice (imo) and she can also carry a pyre so in case u need one she is the better choice (but can tank far less damage + is worse 1o1)

[thomulf]

nice guide again :)

 

@tomtom, yes, coa gives you great bonuses, but realistically the time in which no other hero will benefit more from having the coa than cain will is rare: kerrigan, biotron, MK, there are many heroes that need coa by default. Plus, one of the goals as cain is to limit the weapon speed items you are buying: since he has max weapon speed so often with E, what it comes down to is weapon damage/damage amp and survivability, so you should be going for items that offer the greatest value in those areas.

Edited February 11, 2014 by thomulf

[Moo]

The important things for cain are tankiness and attack speed. His E may give max attack speed for a couple of attacks, and many if you time it correctly, but once your E wears off your dps falls dramatically if you have no attack speed. The reason you should prioritize attack speed is that cain has two free dps steroids that deal huge damage, his W and R. Both of these scale with attack speed because they are proc'd on hit. Pyre is a must-have, gives so much free attack speed and just adds on to the on-hit damage allowing him to not have to build much weapon damage until later on, and it is so cheap. Lightning rod is a great second item to get after buckler, as you can proc its unique twice with E every time you get your attacks off, and it adds cheap attack speed. Atom smasher is a very good choice on him too now, it lets you lock down a target to pound them with your ulti (heh) very well, and makes you destroy other aa heroes with the attack speed slow. Tankiness is an obvious must on cain, because of his very low mobility as you mentioned. DST, lifetech, galactic, spell buffer, all are great for him to get tankier, including most of the other tank items, I think it is mainly just personal preference and countering enemy heroes in this. As you say, taser is a must-have on cain if you are facing any heroes with blinks, invis, or heroes that buy items to do this, and taser is just great in general for countering heroes and stopping channels.

 

Edit: Your guides are great, keep them coming. There aren't that many current, in-depth, and generally accurate guides like yours, so it is great to see them.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Moo

[Straighter]

The important things for cain are tankiness and attack speed. His E may give max attack speed for a couple of attacks, and many if you time it correctly, but once your E wears off your dps falls dramatically if you have no attack speed. The reason you should prioritize attack speed is that cain has two free dps steroids that deal huge damage, his W and R. Both of these scale with attack speed because they are proc'd on hit. Pyre is a must-have, gives so much free attack speed and just adds on to the on-hit damage allowing him to not have to build much weapon damage until later on, and it is so cheap. Lightning rod is a great second item to get after buckler, as you can proc its unique twice with E every time you get your attacks off, and it adds cheap attack speed. Atom smasher is a very good choice on him too now, it lets you lock down a target to pound them with your ulti (heh) very well, and makes you destroy other aa heroes with the attack speed slow. Tankiness is an obvious must on cain, because of his very low mobility as you mentioned. DST, lifetech, galactic, spell buffer, all are great for him to get tankier, including most of the other tank items, I think it is mainly just personal preference and countering enemy heroes in this. As you say, taser is a must-have on cain if you are facing any heroes with blinks, invis, or heroes that buy items to do this, and taser is just great in general for countering heroes and stopping channels.

 

Edit: Your guides are great, keep them coming. There aren't that many current, in-depth, and generally accurate guides like yours, so it is great to see them.

 

thanks guys :D

 

i agree with the E part, timing it right is very important, that allows u to max weapon speed for 12 attacks,

but i dont agree with pyre, because it will make your Q far less usefull and u usually wont need to constant AA longer than 12 attacks,

also u will be far less tanky if u buy pyre, and this way throwing away the advantage cain has over other bruiser/aa heroes: he doesnt need attack speed items to be strong and can be build extremly tanky.

I cant really imagine why i would buy cain over other aa/bruisers that need a pyre anyway, the only other thing he would have going for him would be his laning ...

the way i build him has less damage output vs tanks, but its not your job to kill tanks later ...

i mean with this build u have like what nearly 4k hp midgame? plus a decent damage output ...

same counts for rod and smasher both will break your ice.

[Moo]

thanks guys :D

 

i agree with the E part, timing it right is very important, that allows u to max weapon speed for 12 attacks,

but i dont agree with pyre, because it will make your Q far less usefull and u usually wont need to constant AA longer than 12 attacks,

also u will be far less tanky if u buy pyre, and this way throwing away the advantage cain has over other bruiser/aa heroes: he doesnt need attack speed items to be strong and can be build extremly tanky.

I cant really imagine why i would buy cain over other aa/bruisers that need a pyre anyway, the only other thing he would have going for him would be his laning ...

the way i build him has less damage output vs tanks, but its not your job to kill tanks later ...

i mean with this build u have like what nearly 4k hp midgame? plus a decent damage output ...

same counts for rod and smasher both will break your ice.

The ice isn't the most important once you have taser, it is mainly just to get close to your opponent, stop channels, and give just that little extra bit of time. Not using pyre to not break ice just isn't worth it in my opinion. He may be tankier with your build, but he will have next to no damage against anything other than squishies (who he won't be able to get to because he is very immobile), and just a pyre solves those problems for him, and gives him a stat he loves. Having E timed perfectly will not happen in most fights, so you shouldn't really rely on it. Cain deals much more damage than other aa bruisers early on, and his AoE stun can be devastating. I guess it comes down to personal preference. With my way of building cain he has a lot of dps even after E while still being very tanky if you need to be by skipping the other dps items I mentioned (besides pyre). Your way makes cain deal ok damage and be very tanky. The reason I prefer my build is that cain is easily ignored if built without weapon speed, which makes his tankiness be for naught.

[Straighter]

ok its extremly helpfull to zone out tanks ... ill rewrite some stuff

because i also need to add a tactic how u use ice with pyre

i would probably still go carapace and taser pretty often and cont shard is also only pretty strong later

Edited February 11, 2014 by Straighter

[Moo]

ok its extremly helpfull to zone out tanks ... ill rewrite some stuff

because i also need to add a tactic how u use ice with pyre

i would probably still go carapace and taser pretty often and cont shard is also only pretty strong later

Cont shard is good once you have a lot of weapon damage, otherwise its effect is minimal, so I wouldn't reccomend using it unless you have a lot of weapon damage. The good thing about it for Cain is that he stacks very quickly, but the bad thing is that he normally doesn't stack lots of weapon damage, so its unique isn't dealing a lot of damage.

[Straighter]

oh well i added pyre as core item and cause i do i removed shard/explosive as core

shard can still help lategame vs high resists and explosive is very nice to add pushing power

[ginosaji]

I used to play tons of Cain back in the day (before the items change). Back then Darpa was autoed and Nova was banned alot. Shadow wasn't viable, no one played zera, very few if any played ling, and Jakk wasn't the carry he is now, so people got desperate for AAs. His build is highly dependent on how you draft him and what you face. Obviously his build will be different as a secondary AA vs. a primary. I think he's best as an off AA or a supplement. He does best countering close range AAs like shade, Leo, Grunty. He even does well vs alot of off tank initiators like erekul. As a support AA, I prioritize weapon damage, especially if your target is that one melee AA that the enemy is relying on for their win strat (Grunty, Ling, Leo). Sometimes you get desperate and draft him as a primary AA, so you have to do the best you can. I like Pyre, FOE, Shadowmourne, Galactic, and two situationals if that's the case. Also, demi-god is pretty good on him for laning.

Edited February 11, 2014 by ginosaji

[Straighter]

I used to play tons of Cain back in the day (before the items change). Back then Darpa was autoed and Nova was banned alot. Shadow wasn't viable, no one played zera, very few if any played ling, and Jakk wasn't the carry he is now, so people got desperate for AAs. His build is highly dependent on how you draft him and what you face. Obviously his build will be different as a secondary AA vs. a primary. I think he's best as an off AA or a supplement. He does best countering close range AAs like shade, Leo, Grunty. He even does well vs alot of off tank initiators like erekul. As a support AA, I prioritize weapon damage, especially if your target is that one melee AA that the enemy is relying on for their win strat (Grunty, Ling, Leo). Sometimes you get desperate and draft him as a primary AA, so you have to do the best you can. I like Pyre, FOE, Shadowmourne, Galactic, and two situationals if that's the case. Also, demi-god is pretty good on him for laning.

 

aww ill definitely add a demigod talent option, shame i didnt mention this :o

maybe ill rewrite the whole guide, because now the core items are more of a mixture of AA and a support type of play.

i think ill make it a little similiar to the jakk guide where u can choose 2 different item builds

[TaxHaven]

English and grammar issues but the overall concept was well presented.

 

For example, 'force of entropy, this will not give us health and weapon damage'. So what does it give other than health and damage?

[Straighter]

"it will also combine great with our passive" (the unique) cuz that allows cain to slow enemies far more. ( it's a little comparable to frost wave and nitro)

[Adamantium]

This guide is decent. I have to point something out though. I don't know if you have noticed, but cain's Q has been changed now and always stuns for the same duration. Feel free to test it yourself - the ice does not break upon taking damage. And the tooltip also changed to reflect this. If you don't believe me try it out, but this was a hidden buff to cain that you might want to include in your guide.

[ginosaji]

This guide is decent. I have to point something out though. I don't know if you have noticed, but cain's Q has been changed now and always stuns for the same duration. Feel free to test it yourself - the ice does not break upon taking damage. And the tooltip also changed to reflect this. If you don't believe me try it out, but this was a hidden buff to cain that you might want to include in your guide.

Wow, awesome... Cain might be viable now.

 

Edit: Now all we need is the projectile issues to be fixed and he'll be beast.

Edited February 13, 2014 by ginosaji

[king]

Are u guys enjoying the guides? because it takes (much) time and ive heard only 3 ppl sayin they actually like it.

 

I am enjoying the guides, have read most of them, but one thing is lamentably missing for ME. You describe the QWER abilities, but there is no description of what they do. I have never played Cain before, so I don't really get as much out of the guide as I could. A brief description would be nice. I notice that on all the guides, there isn't a description of what the ability does. If you added that it would make the guides a bit more noob friendly, and when tell Noobs to come read the forums, they will have these handy guides to read. Again, I can figure most of this out, but a quick 1 line description would improve all the guides for those who have not played the game that much (IMHO). See my examples below.

 

======================

passive: (IS THIS JUST PROXIMITY OR HIT BASED???)

great! a strong slow, this allows u to dominate lanes. great with foe.

 

Q: ( THE ICE TRAP THING -- I figured out what this one was)

A strong stun, as long as noone attacks the target or u dont carry items like pyre/explosive/sliptide and so on. Interrupts channels, use that to your advantage.

 

W: (I DON'T WHAT THIS ONE IS...)

The source of your high damage output early.

======================

 

Thanks for putting the time into these guides. I also want to thank everyone for commenting on them, and giving some extra options to the builds!

 

Keep up the good work!

[Straighter]

well the guides are not for really new ppl, its more about how u want to play them IH, because it's very easy to find / test them ....unfortunately i have private issues and wont be able to write/play more sry guys

[Straighter]

Aah forgot to mention this, (cause u are a mod anyway admantium and i wont have internet for my new job for a long long time) feel free to edit the guides and add stuff if u have the time/effort to (@adman and gino) hf all

[solrflare]

His Q is OP as fuark now