Increased cost for Lost Treasure

[taznkid]

In the new version, one of the new balance changes is the change in cost for lost treasure, from 850 minerals to 900 minreals. Someone explain to me why this was necessary, because I certainly do not understand. How the heck am I suppose to play support medic like this?

[Figgonson]

The main reason behind this was so people couldn't get it right off the bat with the +200 mins talent.

 

That would be my guess.

[Straighter]

it needed a nerf because it was too viable on too many heroes .... but i dont like that this directly nerfs wealth .... (why dont just reduce regen a little? ) TT

[Ancientmagicks]

If I recall, they nerfed the regen on it not long ago for the exact reason figgonson said.

[EterNity]

For every In House, there are at least 6 Lost Treasure in game. Nerf is needed.

[Ancientmagicks]

For every In House, there are at least 6 Lost Treasure in game. Nerf is needed.

 

I don't even see how that is a valid argument for a nerf. Hell you see almost every int hero get gravity edge, so by your logic lets nerf it.

[EterNity]

LS is tier 1 item. Gravity is tier 3 item.

 

There are more tier 1 items than tier 3 items; however, the majority of the good players will get LS as their tier 1 item.

 

If you fail to see the point, I would suggest you to play more competitive scenes instead of pubs.

[solrflare]

Dev's argument is that too many heroes use it, thus making it less of a niche item and making it more of a necessary item to be successful late game.

 

50 extra minerals to buy it isn't that much of a change. It is still a viable item on lots of heroes. I went Miner's Goggles and 2 mana potions instead--it worked well.

 

ECKO wanted to change it to 1000, so be thankful he didn't do that.

[SmittyGFunk]

If increasing the cost to make it slower to get at least restore the previous stats.

[EterNity]

The item needs a nerf. You don't nerf an item and then buff it somewhere else because, by doing so, it defeats the purpose of the needed nerf in the first place.

[SmittyGFunk]

It was already nerfed fairly, and this nerf (second) should havr been the first and only.

[EterNity]

The first nerf was clearly not enough or there wouldn't be second one today.

 

As that being said, LS will still be bought regularly because it is the superior item choice over any other and it builds into tier 2 support item that every In House team gets.

[SmittyGFunk]

So do goggles... Build into many great items that is, and as i said this should have been the first nerf. Anyone who got it first will simply get goggles fist now and still get it. If the regen stats were the problem that is what would have been nerfed, but it is not, he just wants to have ppl buy other items first. Bet instead of 6 lt per ih you now see 6 goggles.

 

Edit: Either way i dont want to argue overly much but before a second back to back nerf to any hero/item/ability they should put it in the test map. I played 6 ih hames on the test map and this was not present. I think most can agree to that part at least. They did by the way nerf/un nerf queen by slowing banes but put back some damage/scaling.

Edited February 10, 2014 by SmittyGFunk

[ginosaji]

The thing is that other starting items aside from machete are trash. Pendant just isn't good and most STR heroes need a GP10 or two to be able to keep up in items. Buff pendant and reduce the cost of buckler by 100 or so so that you can get wards/pots along with it.

 

Edit: Don't know how I'd buff pendant though

Edited February 10, 2014 by ginosaji

[Hogwarts]

As gino said problem was there was no other viable alternative to Lost Treasure. Its lane sustain is great and the bonus gold, plus it builds into a lot of important items made it a first choice.

 

Every player in Ih would go Lost Treasure first but for the DPS and Jungle who are going Machete.

 

Also, Every player will buy Lost Treasure then once they get 825ish they would port back to buy goggles and a ward. I still do the same thing but now i buy goggles first, i buy a health and mana pot. Stay in lane until i have enough minerals for Lost Treasure and a ward. Nothings really changed.

 

But they did buff pendant by lowering the cost to 650, And buffing the base health. I have yet to see how viable this is but it looks promising. This might be the new go to item for INT heroes. Who dont want to spend 3 points into utility getting wealth. I can see this potential being real popular. Letting int heroes take a more aggressive early game with more points in offense or investing heavily into the defense tree.

 

But i play a lot of str / int support heroes. I will pretty much still be going Goggles/ pots, then buying lost treasure as the core start to my item builds.

[heimdallr]

The thing is that other starting items aside from machete are trash. Pendant just isn't good and most STR heroes need a GP10 or two to be able to keep up in items. Buff pendant and reduce the cost of buckler by 100 or so so that you can get wards/pots along with it.

 

Edit: Don't know how I'd buff pendant though

 

gino there was a thread I made in the suggestions area where ppl debated the pendant issue...

 

Lost TRessure is pretty much MANDATORY start for intel non aa characters...if pendant would be good instead of cheaper it would be more viable since the new increased LT cost. The solution they came after (reading the changelog) is to make pendant cheaper and give some more hp. At least they tried to buff it, but they did not fix the fundamental flaw of it that is the unique. It is an aa unique and you want on pendant a caster unique. Whatever they may come with but has to be with spells from afar and not poking with a squishy character early game.

[MOTHER]

Pendant is still pointless because it doesn't build into anything. If it were to become a component of something like Ihan, you will see every INT hero think twice about starting with anything else.

 

The AA unique is also odd.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Jessika

[ANARCHY]

i made a point a little while ago;

 

durans machette leech on aa, 0 skill required and works on everything

 

durans buckler defend on aa, 0 skill required and works on everything

 

durans pendant leech mana on aa, 80% of the creep wave has no mana so you cant leech much, neutrals have no mana so you cant jungle with it either & on top of that you need to be lane stalling most of the time as a caster so you can only last hit the measly 2 ranged creep for a whopping 32? mana

[Einstein]

To add to what Anarchy wrote, Pendant is based on AAing when most intel heroes are skill based.

A comparable starter item for intel type heroes in other games gives health and energy back per creep kill, or reduces the cost of using skills by x amount or % of energy.

Both of these item choices make much more sense.

 

The problem with lost treasure isn't really that its amazing, its that the other choice for intel heroes is just that bad. Lost treasure is easily counter-able by having a third person gank and spiking the heroes that you are facing who will potentially have 100-300 less hp per player. Yes they can regenerate but only if you let them.

[Ancientmagicks]

The thing is that other starting items aside from machete are trash. Pendant just isn't good and most STR heroes need a GP10 or two to be able to keep up in items. Buff pendant and reduce the cost of buckler by 100 or so so that you can get wards/pots along with it.

 

Edit: Don't know how I'd buff pendant though

 

I think 5% time scale would be a fair buff. But I think you are right on the only a few being worth what they are.

 

@eternity. I play enough IH, and lt has never been brought up as an issue to be concerned with like other items. Step down from your throne and try not to be so condescending plz.

[Ironsights]

@eternity. ...Step down from your throne and try not to be so condescending plz.

 

+1

Edited February 10, 2014 by Ironsights

[EterNity]

As far as I know, there are no re-buff in sight and please read what Quit said.

 

What's done is done and will not be changed.

 

If the fact that almost everyone that play Mumble In House gets it still not enough to convince you, I have nothing to add.

[solrflare]

Gents,

 

The bottom line is this: Lost Treasure builds into too many useful things to have such a low cost of 850. Honestly, a 50 mineral increase isn't too bad, but at the same time balances the item a bit more. Like I said earlier, I've experimented with Miner's Googles + mana pots or both components of Lost Treasure, and then porting immediately after the first neutrals and buying LT. Both are great starting options, especially for tanks or support.

 

Think about it like this: if it is nerfed for you, it is also nerfed for the OTHER team. You might be a bit less strong, but it also forces the other team to explore other starting options.

 

Hope this helps a bit. Don't forget that Pendant was slightly buffed; start trying to use it and if you feel it needs another buff, post a topic about it and maybe the devs will explore.

 

Personally, I think that Pendant should be buffed a bit more--150 HP, +1 Energy Regen.

[Straighter]

Gents,

 

The bottom line is this: Lost Treasure builds into too many useful things to have such a low cost of 850. Honestly, a 50 mineral increase isn't too bad, but at the same time balances the item a bit more. Like I said earlier, I've experimented with Miner's Googles + mana pots or both components of Lost Treasure, and then porting immediately after the first neutrals and buying LT. Both are great starting options, especially for tanks or support.

 

Think about it like this: if it is nerfed for you, it is also nerfed for the OTHER team. You might be a bit less strong, but it also forces the other team to explore other starting options.

 

Hope this helps a bit. Don't forget that Pendant was slightly buffed; start trying to use it and if you feel it needs another buff, post a topic about it and maybe the devs will explore.

 

Personally, I think that Pendant should be buffed a bit more--150 HP, +1 Energy Regen.

 

because pendant is still not viable at all most INT chars will start with lt anyway ... i like the nerf and would like a buff to pendant too, another unique or energy regen sounds nice

[thomulf]

The thing is that other starting items aside from machete are trash. Pendant just isn't good and most STR heroes need a GP10 or two to be able to keep up in items. Buff pendant and reduce the cost of buckler by 100 or so so that you can get wards/pots along with it.

 

Edit: Don't know how I'd buff pendant though

Perhaps one of these:

-Bit more health

-Small movement speed

-Significantly higher energy leech

-Small Energy-based weapon damage?

 

Problem is that it's supposed to be an "energy sustain" type item but both being able to gain energy yourself and reduce enemy energy is totally negated by energy pots.

Edited February 10, 2014 by thomulf