Quidditch's Suggested Changes

[Hogwarts]

Heroes

 

Greelus

Q - Increase duration to 2/3/4/5 seconds from 1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds

W- Add 10% int scaling at all levels on the drain increase shields and mana gain to 60% of leached from 50%

 

Vergil

Q - Increase base damage to 60/100/140/180 from 50/90/130/170. Increase INT scaling to 50% from 30% at all levels

 

Shadow

Change the Heroic Passive so that when shadow auto attacks he is shown on the minimap. Other wise he stays hidden.

 

Tassadar

Heroic Passive - When Clone is active Tass and Clone take a 30% dmg cut. On all sources of damage. Increase clone base hp to 100+25*lvl (100%int) from 50+25*lvl(100%int)

W- Increase base damage to 40/60/80/100 from 20/40/60/80

R - Increase range to 8/10/12 from 6/9/12

 

Cow

Q- Wall last for 6 seconds from 8, Damage is change to 50/110/170/230 from 70/130/190/250 Int Scaling reduced to 50% from 70%

E- Damage reduced to 10/20/30/40 from 20/30/40/50

R- Damage reduced to 250/400/550 from 300/ 450/ 600. Int scaling reduced to 50% from 60%

 

Bio

Heroic Passive. Increase the slow on minions to 20% from 15% non stacking. Change damage on minions to 7(+15%str) from 5(+15%str)

Q- Reduce int scaling to 50% at all levels from 60%

E- Reduce int scaling to 50% at all levels from 60%, Reduce base damage to 50/120/190/260 from 80/150/220/290. Bio gains 15% time when burrowed at all levels

R - Duration reduced to 8/12/15 seconds from 10/150/20 seconds

 

Immortal

Reduce AA range to 5.5 from 6

W- Loses 40%/35%/30/25% move speed for each point leveled during mana recharge active

E- Change the reducing effect to 50% from 66

 

Dehaka

Heroic Passive- Reduced to 1.5 seconds from 3

W- Reduce slow to 1/ 1.5, 2/ 2.5 from 1.5 /2 /2.5 /3

E- Burrow ranged reduced to 6/8/10/12 from 6/9/12/15

 

Zera

Q- Reduce wep dmg scaling to 80% from 100% at all levels.

R- Reduce duration to 3/4/ 5 from 3/ 4.5/ 6

 

Queen

Heroic Passive- Reduce structure regen to 3/sec from 5/sec Increase dmg resist to 10% from 8%

W- Reduce INT scaling to 20% from 25% at all levels

R- Stun duration reduced to 1.5 seconds and the AOE is reduced at all levels. Reduce bonus dmg ultra deals to structures to 50 from 65 at all levels.

 

Maar

R- Can only take 1/2/3 Heroic units with him during port per respected level.

 

Cyprus

Q- Reduce amount of walls to 2/3/4/5 from 3/4/5/6

W- reduce INT scaling to 50% from 60% at all levels

E- CD change to 25/20/15/12 from 25/20/15/10

R- Remove channel time. Reduce base damage to 300/400/600

 

Marine King

E- Give different wep speed to non heroic units, 8/12/16/20% wep speed to heroic units 5/8/11/15% to non heroic. Or all non heroic units receive 25% less of the original bonus.

R- Enhanced damage reduced to 100/125/150% from 150/200/250%

 

Items

 

 

Stun Knife

Reduced to 1 stun from 2, Duration of stun increased to .5 sec from .3sec

 

Time Splitter

Reduced to 1 stun from 2. Duration increased to .8 seconds from .5

Evasion change from 35% to 25%

 

Phantom Menace

Reactivates after 6 seconds from 10

 

Explosive

Unique reduced to 40% wep damage from 70%

 

Black Hole

Unique reduced to 100% dmg from 110%

 

Ocelots

Unique reduced to 70% from 75%

 

Pulse Hammer

Str increased to 15 from 11

 

Force

Str increased to 20 from 12

 

Ene Saber

Unique change to +3 from +4 wep dmg for every 100 max mana

 

Kassia Crystal

Unique increased to 35% from 25%

 

Eye of Narud

Health increased to 325 from 165

+3 energy regen added

Unique - Cull 2 removed

Culling Saber component requirement removed

Emerald Mox component requirement added

Pulse Regenerator component requirement added

Total Components Required: Hunters Hatchet $265 / Emerald Mox $475/ Pulse Regenerator $350

Cost is 265+ 475+ 350 + 700 recipe = 1790 total

(this is a big change but i feel this item is worthless and will be better suited for a support hero instead of a aa catered item only. this is my intention with the change)

 

Flair Gun

Active changed to 150(+10% of max mana 300 dmg cap)

 

Sunflair Gun

Active changed to 200(+20% of max mana 500 dmg cap)

 

Misc

 

Siege Creeps

Reduce starting health to 600 from 1500

Reduce starting weapon damage to 70 from 110

Reduce rage to 6 units

Spawn ever 6 waves from 5

 

Towers

All towers are given debuff immunity

All towers deal 10% of max hp per auto attack

 

 

 

 

This isnt perfect. Its just a shot in the dark for a direction i think the game should go in. Feel free to nit pick at any of my suggestions.

[CrazySoldier]

i think 10% may be a bit high. And add lockbox then I agree

[Doom]

Bio: keep minion slow unstackable, but make the ult reduce movement by 20% at all levels by itself.

shadow: agree, though to compensate somewhat, make it not be revealed by detection (so he's still not seen on minimap with just improved wards, if he's not attacking things).

Vergil: flob no. His ultimate scaling is insane, his maximum damage to a total of three units is unrivaled by anything in the game, even leo. The only way his q can be buffed, is if the ultimate is nerfed to compensate.

[CoolNoob]

uhmm Most of the changes suggested seems fair and well balanced... except for cyprus, I think he should keep the channel maybe reduced to 0.5 or 0.3 so it wont be an instant shot.

 

then All the others I agree with you.

[ANARCHY]

i agree with most of what your saying besides these;

 

Vergil

Q - Increase base damage to 60/100/140/180 from 50/90/130/170. Increase INT scaling to 50% from 30% at all levels

i feel he would be massively overpowered then, he is already great at killing and escaping, just his late game falls off, maybe scale it more towards a buff for late game

 

Shadow

Change the Heroic Passive so that when shadow auto attacks he is shown on the minimap. Other wise he stays hidden.

i would also like to see this ability's movement speed scaled upon lvl as well

 

Tassadar

make him back the way he was, his current role of aa box click is boring as shap

 

Zera

Q- Reduce wep dmg scaling to 80% from 100% at all levels.

R- Reduce duration to 3/4/ 5 from 3/ 4.5/ 6

i would rather see 25% reduction in the bubble size radius

 

Maar

R- Can only take 1/2/3 Heroic units with him during port per respected level.

why not have it gain charges based upon time like rancor R etc and that determines the amount of heroes he can take

[CoolNoob]

i agree with most of what your saying besides these;

 

Vergil

Q - Increase base damage to 60/100/140/180 from 50/90/130/170. Increase INT scaling to 50% from 30% at all levels

i feel he would be massively overpowered then, he is already great at killing and escaping, just his late game falls off, maybe scale it more towards a buff for late game

 

Shadow

Change the Heroic Passive so that when shadow auto attacks he is shown on the minimap. Other wise he stays hidden.

i would also like to see this ability's movement speed scaled upon lvl as well

 

Tassadar

make him back the way he was, his current role of aa box click is boring as shap

 

Zera

Q- Reduce wep dmg scaling to 80% from 100% at all levels.

R- Reduce duration to 3/4/ 5 from 3/ 4.5/ 6

i would rather see 25% reduction in the bubble size radius

 

Maar

R- Can only take 1/2/3 Heroic units with him during port per respected level.

why not have it gain charges based upon time like rancor R etc and that determines the amount of heroes he can take

any explanation of why you disagree with this?

[MOTHER]

These are indeed fair and balanced, I'm also glad someone raised the issue with Cow who needs some minor nerfs. These are my only concerns with the list:

 

Vergil - I really don't think this is needed at all.

 

Immortal - The slow on W is too great I feel, I would change it to 45/35/25/15 simply because 25% is too great of a movement speed loss late game.

 

Queen - Fair except the reduction of the stun duration of R which would indirectly nerf her Q into R combo, an unnecessary overnerf.

 

Maar - I don't think this one solves anything. I simply think Maar shouldn't be able to port to where he does not have vision. Alternatively, nerf the range 30/45/60.

 

Flaregun/Sunflare Gun - the damage cap on sunflare should be at least twice as flare gun (600) to justify the investment in the item. Also, considering how cheap HP is in the game, I would change the damage caps to 400/800.

 

Towers - Like others said, 10% of Max is too high.

 

The list is also missing Shadowmourne Gara and Lockbox, there has been a suggestion floating around balance debate for the addition of a random time of re-appearance which I think should be looked into.

 

Besides the concerns I just mentioned, great job on putting this together.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Jessika

[ANARCHY]

any explanation of why you disagree with this?

err i thought it was pretty straight forward, i agree with quidditch's balance ideas besides the few i listed which have an explanation in italics

 

re maar;

why not just rework the ability to something completely different... im sure we can find something

Edited February 4, 2014 by ANARCHY

[CrazySoldier]

I think Vergils q is ridiculously weak early game, even against creeps. So i think a minor buff to base damage would be fine, the scaling may be a little much.

[MrGrim]

Any thoughts/changes to shadowmourne? Shadow can solo towers with that and pyre, grunty rushes for it exclusively in some cases and if you combine that with retrofit = no more towers. Why not shift it too old bandit's artifice? If I remember correctly it was an active with decent cost and stats and it would raise the skill cap of just a clicking at towers.

[Destroyer]

Add shadowmourne (as in just get rid of the item), and don't buff the scaling on vergils q. I agree with everything else.

[John]

Should probably be in the balance debate section, however most changes seems fair, however I'd really miss that sunflare in pubs 1 shooting glasscannons back.

[atomheartman]

Should probably be in the balance debate section, however most changes seems fair, however I'd really miss that sunflare in pubs 1 shooting glasscannons back.

well SFG can kill some nabs still.

love fully geared cyprus with SFG - it deals even more dog than his ulti.

[Mus]

any explanation of why you disagree with this?

Any explanation of why you disagree with him disagreeing?

[GuZ]

Topic moved to the right section.

[ginosaji]

I agree with Crazy, pre level 7 Vergil's Q does almost nothing especially considering it's his only tool until level 6. Buff base damage at early level, but I don't think the scaling needs anything, he already does some great damage to squishies with it mid game.

 

Flair gun is fine I think, although the damage on Sunflare at the highest ranges can be too much (some heroes can get 1100 dmg out of it). 800 seems to be a good number whoever suggested that.

 

Pulse hammer could use a slight buff in terms of HP, but I think force of Entropy is fine where it is.

 

Kassia Crystal I don't know about... I don't really play medic much, but she seems fine to be honest and who else buys Kassia besides medic and egon?

 

Explosive nerf is desperately needed.

 

Phantom menace needs a buff as well, although I think the way to do it is to make it much cheaper and nerf the speed/agi/resist accordingly, making it viable earlier on the game when movement speed around the map is more important. The thing is that by the time you can justify a 4K movement speed item, the game is usually already down to just T3s if it's even.

 

Cow needs a slight nerf, I agree with that.

 

Cyprus needs to not be as large a channel, I agree.

 

I like the idea of a movespeed slow on Immortal rather than just a large nerf to the regen on his shields while being attacked. It would make him more wary of going into battle, 2v1/3v1 as it would be difficult for him to retreat, but he'd still be able to fulfill his role as wrecking ball/tanky-dps at the center of a team comp when pressing an advantage or tower.

Edited February 4, 2014 by ginosaji

[MOTHER]

I think Kassia needs a buff and even the one Quid suggested may not be enough. The item falls off fast mid-late game, it would be nice if it gave some spell resistance in addition to buffing the unique. The price can be adjusted accordingly of course. I get it on Medic, but it also works on Egon and It's useful on Queen because of the CDR.

 

I think Phantom Menace should be made cheaper but reduce its stats, the item should be made viable for more than just agility heroes.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Jessika

[Hogwarts]

These are indeed fair and balanced, I'm also glad someone raised the issue with Cow who needs some minor nerfs. These are my only concerns with the list:

 

Vergil - I really don't think this is needed at all.

 

Immortal - The slow on W is too great I feel, I would change it to 45/35/25/15 simply because 25% is too great of a movement speed loss late game.

 

Queen - Fair except the reduction of the stun duration of R which would indirectly nerf her Q into R combo, an unnecessary overnerf.

 

Maar - I don't think this one solves anything. I simply think Maar shouldn't be able to port to where he does not have vision. Alternatively, nerf the range 30/45/60.

 

Flaregun/Sunflare Gun - the damage cap on sunflare should be at least twice as flare gun (600) to justify the investment in the item. Also, considering how cheap HP is in the game, I would change the damage caps to 400/800.

 

Towers - Like others said, 10% of Max is too high.

 

The list is also missing Shadowmourne Gara and Lockbox, there has been a suggestion floating around balance debate for the addition of a random time of re-appearance which I think should be looked into.

 

Besides the concerns I just mentioned, great job on putting this together.

 

Queen got a nerf similar to my suggestion but more harsh

 

HP - Structures gain 20% damage reduce, Health Regen removed

q- Reduced move speed from 60% to 25% on creep

r- Stun reduced by 1.5 seconds

 

we played her last night and she still seems to be in a good spot. But her potential as a 1v1 significantly fell off. But she was still doing a lot of work in team fights and counter push. I can imagine her being less viable in pubs. But still being a pretty high priority pick in IH. I can image once the tp port talent is reverted she will become more popular in general. We will play more games with her over the next few days. I can see getting a buff to the banes speed. maybe not the full 60 but some where in the middle

[MOTHER]

The change to Q is utter BS. Banes already got a severe damage nerf over the last few months, the nerf to the speed on creep is too severe considering the skill falls hard late game (when everyone and their mother can outrun them). The problem with Queen has always been her overall utility for the team, being able to control lanes, kill, stun, heal and push/heal towers all in one. Might as well just redesign the hero instead of nerfing each of her 4 skills to oblivion.

 

Edit-

 

I just tested her out (v1.77) and now I'm confused. The base damage and scaling on her banes have been buffed (30/40/50/60 + 15%) which is nice but her potential to land them all has been nerfed by reducing the movement speed bonus and the duration of the stun. Which is a fair trade in a way but like you said her 1v1 potential took a hit. We'll see how this plays out as I'm not sure how these changes will help lift the autoban.

 

I also prefer the new heroic passive as tower regen is already too good.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Jessika

[Crimson]

This is what I will say one of the only things that i do think would be good for phantom is make it 50% agi stats an the other 50% to what ever the base stats is for the hero the cost an the other stats on it can stay the same.

 

As for some of the heros changes As said before do you really need to see a shadow on the map to know thats hes pushing? if so then your just a very weak player, every 1 on your team should have a hero they watch regardless if you can see him on map or not its just laziness cause I cant see him on map dont stop me from stoping him or killing him, you let him farm or any hero farm free that's on you an your team giving any hero that free rain to do so.

 

Vergil- hes good as is he don't need his q buff an if you say cause he does no damage vs high spell res well hes agi still theirs more then just int as him.

 

Cow- leave him as is hes a good mid to end game hero as he should be

 

bio- leave int as is dont lower it see as theres so many counters to him, the only thing i would say is yes re-add the timescale back to him

What I will say is give his minions on R spell res a bit lv 1 - 0 spell res lv 2 - 7% spell res lv3 - 15% this way it help off set the fact they die to easy by any aoe late game an atlest gives them more then 1 second life.

 

 

Cyprus- leave him as is hes ment to be high damage out put burst killer. if not a fan of his damage spell res does wonders to screw him over when hes full int.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Items

 

 

Stun Knife

leave as is

 

Time Splitter

leave as is The reason I don't see why it needs to be any lower then it been set to what cause it annoys you that you got interrupted on your skill well thats what it should do it so high burst heros cant just out rite 1 button kill the aa glass cannons or to help give that Turing point in a battle.

 

Phantom Menace

only change i say would be make 50% agi an 50% base hero main stats to give more options to other stats base heros that way agi heros still gets its full effect from it.

 

Explosive

leave at 70%

 

Black Hole

leave as is

 

Ocelots

Unique reduced to 60-70% from 75%

since its pretty easy to get

 

Pulse Hammer

Str increased to 15 from 11

 

Force

Str increased to 20 from 12

 

Ene Saber

leave as is.

 

Flare gun an

fine as is

 

Sun flare Gun

fine as is just for the fact that spell res cuts alot of its damage as any good spell res def user pretty much knows they kill any true spell caster.

[MOTHER]

Crimson I don't think you need to see Shad on the map to know he is pushing, it really is common sense when you look at the minimap and you see your creeps disappearing with no enemy hero near by, you know it's Shad. I think Shad's movement speed is the bigger problem, his ability to push and run with impunity as no one can catch him or get to their tower in time.

[Straighter]

i like most changes, but i dont understand bios changes and flare/sunflare gun

its already hard enough for casters that rush flaregun to make a good use outof it .... and if sunflare gun would be nerfed anyone would just use stars ..... which is already pretty often the case

[Hogwarts]

i like most changes, but i dont understand bios changes and flare/sunflare gun

its already hard enough for casters that rush flaregun to make a good use outof it .... and if sunflare gun would be nerfed anyone would just use stars ..... which is already pretty often the case

 

Sunflair can deal easily over 1k dmg When you add in yamato and grav edge the damage way exceeds that mark. I find it completely silly you can deal that much damage on an active. I just think both items need a damage cap.

 

Bio's change was to make his minions more viable and in doing so i nerfed other parts of his game play. This version of bio is just as strong as the current version just with some strengths shifted around. Its a give and take.

 

This is what I will say one of the only things that i do think would be good for phantom is make it 50% agi stats an the other 50% to what ever the base stats is for the hero the cost an the other stats on it can stay the same.

 

As for some of the heros changes As said before do you really need to see a shadow on the map to know thats hes pushing? if so then your just a very weak player, every 1 on your team should have a hero they watch regardless if you can see him on map or not its just laziness cause I cant see him on map dont stop me from stoping him or killing him, you let him farm or any hero farm free that's on you an your team giving any hero that free rain to do so.

I am a 4 time tourney winner and the people I play with are general accepted as the best players in this game. They and I both feel shadows split push is to strong. When we are team fighting in middle or something were not going to take the time to leave our heroes during the action to check on a tower just because a creep wave is there. Your logic is pretty sound during non intense versions of the game. But when we have a team fight and we even come out ahead because its 5v4. Shadow can easily take 2-3 towers in that time. To imply that I and my piers are "weak" players is a bit silly.

 

Vergil- hes good as is he don't need his q buff an if you say cause he does no damage vs high spell res well hes agi still theirs more then just int as him.

Building Vergil as an AA hero like your implying is pretty silly..... I feel his Q needs a buff because it pretty much does nothing early game. The scaling might be a bit much but it needs some base dmg increase. To be more viable in lane and early game.

 

Cow- leave him as is hes a good mid to end game hero as he should be

Cow is to strong as he stands. His early game base dmg is high and he has a lot of harass. While he just dominated in team fights dealing massive AOE. If his skills were single target i would not mind the damage. But because its AOE and the same damage can be divinded between 2-4 heroes. Is just a bit much.

 

bio- leave int as is dont lower it see as theres so many counters to him, the only thing i would say is yes re-add the timescale back to him

What I will say is give his minions on R spell res a bit lv 1 - 0 spell res lv 2 - 7% spell res lv3 - 15% this way it help off set the fact they die to easy by any aoe late game an atlest gives them more then 1 second life.

Giving the minions some sort of physical and spell resist is a good idea. The % scaling is only 10% reduction It will hardly be noticeable.

 

 

Cyprus- leave him as is hes ment to be high damage out put burst killer. if not a fan of his damage spell res does wonders to screw him over when hes full in

The changes i suggested for cyprus will still give him rather impressive damage out put. While getting rid of the channel time on the ult. To me it seems a fair trade off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Items

 

 

Stun Knife

leave as is

see below

 

Time Splitter

leave as is The reason I don't see why it needs to be any lower then it been set to what cause it annoys you that you got interrupted on your skill well thats what it should do it so high burst heros cant just out rite 1 button kill the aa glass cannons or to help give that Turing point in a battle.

The evasion is to random and to high, Also I strongly disagree with giving every AA hero in the game a stun let alone 2-3 stuns. That is the role of support heroes. Hyper Carry Attack Damage heroes should not have this option. If the AA goes glass cannon he should be killed by a burst assassin like cyprus. Because Cyrpus is not providing consistent high damage. This is a team game. There are supposed to be support heroes peeling for the ADC heroes. AA heroes should not be good at everything.

 

Phantom Menace

only change i say would be make 50% agi an 50% base hero main stats to give more options to other stats base heros that way agi heros still gets its full effect from it.

 

Explosive

leave at 70%

No, Explosive is supposed to be a situation item. To help counter split push and heroes like unix and bio. As it stands now this is a priority item for almost every ADC hero in the game. Your average ADC is going to have 400 wep dmg late game and the max wep speed of .42. Thats 2 auto attacks / second. @ 70% That is 560 spell damage per second in a 3 unit aoe. Its to much damage. Its really an issue on ranged heroes like nova. Nova has 6.5 range at 400 wep dmg she is doing 800 dmg/ sec to her main target and 560 spell damage per second in a 3 unit aoe around that target. This is not counting Shadowmoure or on hit effects like pyre. She is doing all of this from a long range away.

 

Black Hole

leave as is

This is just a small nerf. Black Hole scales to well with enegery saber and heroes like Ling and Zera. Dealing an insane amount of damage. Honestly i doubt most people will notice this change

 

Ocelots

Unique reduced to 60-70% from 75%

since its pretty easy to get

 

Pulse Hammer

Str increased to 15 from 11

 

Force

Str increased to 20 from 12

 

Ene Saber

leave as is.

This item is extremly cheap and offers over 100 wep damage. This item was intended to be for INT battle mage heroes with high mana. But cause of the way it currently scales its the most cost effective item to get wep damage. The 2k mineral wep damage item only offers 55 wep dmg. For 1k more you get 100+ on enegerysaber. The dmg is just to high

 

Flare gun an

fine as is

 

Sun flare Gun

fine as is just for the fact that spell res cuts alot of its damage as any good spell res def user pretty much knows they kill any true spell caster.

Having over 1k dmg one an active is just insane. When you factor in grave edge and yamato this item easily exceeds this mark by leaps and bounds.

 

Responded in Red

[Crimson]

@Quidditch

 

Just cause you won 4 tourneys don't really mean much to me I could tell you that I was big in MLG an other world tourneys my self an held over 50 or so world top spots my self an with my team over the last 15years when I was full hardcore into it.

 

But still good job on winning those I was going to part take in them from time to time but cant really find a team like I use 2 run with or they end up running into my main gaming leagues or the work i do.

 

I will say this I have vs you many times your a lot better then most people that play this still as far as some of the best a good amount of them don't even play this no more so its pretty easy to be the best by default for this era of aos.

 

But as far as the being weak you are if your for saying this "I am a 4 time tourney winner and the people I play with are general accepted as the best players in this game. They and I both feel shadows split push is to strong. When we are team fighting in middle or something were not going to take the time to leave our heroes during the action to check on a tower just because a creep wave is there. Your logic is pretty sound during non intense versions of the game. But when we have a team fight and we even come out ahead because its 5v4. Shadow can easily take 2-3 towers in that time. To imply that I and my piers are "weak" players is a bit silly."

 

But you are weak ya for saying for a team battle you rather 5 v 4 then 4 v 4 to stop the shadow its easier for you to complain then to just change the way you deal with it, the problem is your tactics an ego if your so good as you said this wouldn't be a problem to deal with shadow or any other hero that can back door.

 

If you been to any world tourneys you got to under stand this be ready to change your battle plans at second notice cause if you can't change your doom to fail.

 

 

 

"Building Vergil as an AA hero like your implying is pretty silly..... I feel his Q needs a buff because it pretty much does nothing early game. The scaling might be a bit much but it needs some base dmg increase. To be more viable in lane and early game."

 

Have you ever done AA verg its not silly when you can aa warp into fights crush a shadow in aa cause of his way to lower weapon damage or crush tanks as well, theres more ways to play ever hero silly or not its mostly the silly builds that can crush the cooky builds that every 1 use, mind you he use to be alot better at it when shrink ray was in the game.

 

Crimson I don't think you need to see Shad on the map to know he is pushing, it really is common sense when you look at the minimap and you see your creeps disappearing with no enemy hero near by, you know it's Shad. I think Shad's movement speed is the bigger problem, his ability to push and run with impunity as no one can catch him or get to their tower in time.

 

Ya hes fast which is what he really made for is being fast, as for heros that cant catch him I wouldn't say that, if your slower lie an await close by that way you dont need to go cross map to stop him or spec into warp if your hero is way to slow, as drake I can get to him cause I like to use phantom an grav most of the time as drake an on a few other heros as well it all comes down to use what you got, I understand you cant always stop backdoor players but you can make it alot harder for them if you know that's what they only do is back door so Im pretty sure 1 person or 2 can gank the shadow push if the other 3 or 4 dependng on your team can hold on even grounds well you are killing the shadow an counter push.

 

An yes im a man of tactics read the flow of battle there's signs in it that gives you tells of whats to come.

[Hogwarts]

shadow is a 1v1 assassin. You cant kill him 1v1. Because he is split pushing / farming he is ahead in items and levels. Not to mention he has 3 escapes and is one of the heroes with the most mobility.

 

thanks for responding tho. I just dont agree with your points at all