Bio's Utility...

[Hanedog]

As a game progresses it feels like Bio's utility is quickly lost. I feel that his minions should do a combination of spell/physical and true dmg... It wouldn't change him much but it would give his ulti a bit more viability with items that proc on spell dmg (ie Nitrogen etc.).

 

Part of the reason for this suggestion stems from the fact that, by midgame, there are WAY too many ways to avoid his ulti. Things like DST, SHM, Explosive Retro, passives, cloaks, spells, blinks, smoke etc... It makes his ulti almost useless. In a game against 'decent' players, I can go +4-5 in pubs, but have no chance against players that have any awareness. I can farm wayyy ahead of anyone else and in the end, it won't matter because Bio isn't the best tank, isn't the best support, is terrible dps, and isn't a great caster...

 

Thoughts?

Edited January 22, 2014 by Hanedog

[ginosaji]

As a game progresses it feels like Bio's utility is quickly lost. I feel that his minions should do a combination of spell/physical dmg... It wouldn't change him much but it would give his ulti a bit more viability with items that proc on spell dmg (ie Nitrogen etc.).

 

Part of the reason for this suggestion stems from the fact that, by midgame, there are WAY too many ways to avoid his ulti. Things like DST, SHM, passives, cloaks, spells, blinks, smoke etc... It makes his ulti almost useless. In a game against 'decent' players, I can go +4-5 in pubs, but have no chance against players that have any awareness. I can farm wayyy ahead of anyone else and in the end, it won't matter because Bio isn't the best tank, isn't the best support, is terrible dps, and isn't a great caster...

 

Thoughts?

 

Yea, I don't play bio very much, so it's hard for me to say from that perspective, but in a draft I rarely consider picking bio.

[Moo]

I agree. Even when the other team isn't that good, they can still counter his ulti ez with some AoE, and he just doesn't have much else going for him IMO.

[jamescossey]

bio would be a good last pick for IH cause he is very viable if u play him right. he would be a tank/disrupter. with atom smasher, Mossberg taser and FOE he can be very strong. first off with u ulti someone don't just run away attack them and stay with minions. unborrow, then use knock back, ulti then attack to proc the atom smasher and keep attacking, FOE and minions will keep them slowed. yea some heroes can counter ur ulti that is why ur suppose to Mossberg that hero. currently his minions when u ulti do physical and true damage. I think at rank 3 its 7 or 10 true damage each. but even late game when ur ulti cant usually kill. by you popping up behind a team and using Q to knock them to ur team it disrupts and will cancel a channel just like grunty shot gun. his ultimate on a weak hero will make that player run away, creating an advantage for a team fight for a few seconds or make the other team focus ur ulti meaning ur team is taking no damage. when it comes down to it though bio is still very viable as Int for burst. your knockback will do damage for every minion that hits a target. notice when at point blank it does more damage then at max range. for this build I normally go CDR Int health

[heimdallr]

all my hopes are in bluegene to make his ult the killing tool it can be for late game...

 

in general all you can do is claymore, taser(to avoid any escapes), ulti, throw minions to push in oposite direction of escape, and if available due to cooldowns a second claymore...

 

besides taser items that do help are coat of arms(duh), and atom smasher sometimes for the uber slow so that minions can get a full surround and FoE....it even counters DST for the duration effect.

 

Bizarre ideas include nitro + mantle and walk WITH the enemy being ultimated to keep him getting hit by minions all the time though this sacrifices some of your tankyness...also theres cooldown reduction + timescale builds to just spam ultimate since its the only thing you really got

 

if taser effect wears off and enemy isnt even close to death you are done....no way you can finish it...

 

IMO as it is bio is only good for combo kills....DA gank...like with rancor or someone to freeze an enemy while they take the hits...rancor snipe + rain of nitro nukes is good...bio + greelus is wicked too if done correctly....the slow, the silence, the more nitro slow

 

other than that just spam your spells for minions to bring back towers and creep waves fast...bio can do a bit of everything but doesnt do like one thing good and in that I totally agree it needs fixing...every char must have at least one role at which they are good....and if they only have one role they got to excell at it...bio can do many things kinda good but nees to be good at something compared to others.....he kinda pushes.....but minions kill too slow...he kinda supports with minions slow, but they are a bit unreliable...he kinda kills, but enemies can use tricks to escape his only killing tool that is his ulti...he can kinda tank, cause he is a str character with good scaling, but he has no incorporated tankyness skills(like drake anti spell for isntance)...he does have mobility in the form of claymore and can keep enemies at bay with Q....he also has AMAZING sustain with W...but when he engages he uses up his skills so he basically throws his spells and is left with no mobility and the sustain doesnt really matter since he already threw his spells...

 

the thing is through history his ulti has gone from op to up and viceversa on and on and on...the idea behind the ulti is so "special" that its hard to balance. It depends on item changes, on early to late game, pubs to ih, solo performance, partner performance, teamfights, team compositions, drafting, whatever!

 

Thats why I put my hopes in bluegene...it would do a separate ultimate so he can get the power he deserves.....for a price...that price also delays tankyness or taser so its not necesarily imba if you rush to this item....we have to wait and see with what they come up

[Hogwarts]

I could be wrong but.. I could of sworn bio all ready did 10 spell dmg per minion at lvl 3 ult........

 

 

But i agree bio has an average early game. But he quickly falls off. Even if you get ahead. You cant do much. Mid/ Late game all you can do is just never die and kill steal with your e and q

[smorgishborg]

Int bio is the way to go now. Go Ihan, Grav, Nitro, and Yamato. E Q someone from point blank and its more than a cyprus ult... I used to to a unix+bio combo with a special buddy of mine. Unix fungal then bio does his combo and they died instantly. They just disappear.

[Hogwarts]

int bio has always been strong :)

 

This one guy would rush flair gun in in houses

 

save a double pop and flair gun = kill at lvl 4-5 then he would snow ball from there going int.

 

His name is ItsThatGuy

[Straighter]

i dont think bio is a bad tank ...

he needs fortify to tank but with it hes quite tanky, ofc not as tanky as tychus f.e. but still quite tanky and he has huge sustainability combined with his mobiliy make him not bad overall

hes has also the best pushing power as a tank ... which combines great with his mobility / splitpush heroes in your team

his ulti is only helpfull vs single opponents or vs aeon/levi (or helps tower pushin)

 

my personal opinion is just that explosive should get changed ... its too strong

[atomheartman]

Your ulti will not kill enemy if they aware of it but disable 1 hero for its duration - heroes like nova and raynor need to save their butt instead of dealing damage in teamfights. NOT BAD! also great q and e. just give bio a little love and he will be great as before.

Edited January 22, 2014 by atomheartman

[zeeeend]

Nova buys explosive

Attacks the civ around her twice (all civ die)

Proceeds with killing enemies

[Destroyer]

I could be wrong but.. I could of sworn bio all ready did 10 spell dmg per minion at lvl 3 ult........

 

 

But i agree bio has an average early game. But he quickly falls off. Even if you get ahead. You cant do much. Mid/ Late game all you can do is just never die and kill steal with your e and q

Its true damage now.

About the only time bio is viable is if the other team has someone to hunt, like a raynor or dustin. He is still good long lane, but doesn't offer as much as a vorpal or queen.

[herman]

What was the reason for changing his Ult to true damage? That leaves no room at all for scaling with int or str. You could essentially run around with trolling with 6 silver souls and have the exact same damage output on your Ult. Why is he different from ... SS, COW, Vorpal, or other Strength Chars that have their Ult scale up with INT?

 

I see other peoples point that in the past because of scaling Bio could be borderline OP, but in the current game where most all carry's get explosive .... especially when playing Bio ... I think there should be at least some sort of INT scaling or combo of true + INT

[zeeeend]

What was the reason for changing his Ult to true damage? That leaves no room at all for scaling with int or str. You could essentially run around with trolling with 6 silver souls and have the exact same damage output on your Ult. Why is he different from ... SS, COW, Vorpal, or other Strength Chars that have their Ult scale up with INT?

 

I see other peoples point that in the past because of scaling Bio could be borderline OP, but in the current game where most all carry's get explosive .... especially when playing Bio ... I think there should be at least some sort of INT scaling or combo of true + INT

It became truedmg as physical dmg was to easy countered by buckler and dst

Then it became spelldmg which was changed because, hmm i seem to have forgotten why, i guess with nitro or perhaps spellresis was to high ?

So now its truedmg nice and simpel

[herman]

It became truedmg as physical dmg was to easy countered by buckler and dst

Then it became spelldmg which was changed because, hmm i seem to have forgotten why, i guess with nitro or perhaps spellresis was to high ?

So now its truedmg nice and simpel

 

I mean I agree with the originator of the post... its annoying not having Nitro proc on his ultimate. I understand the need to have some true damage to go through DST but I think it would be a more well-rounded Ult. I'm not calling for the Ult to deal the same true damage + some INT scale ... just a combo of both (with appropriate scaling) would be a nice re-work to make Bio relevant again.

[Destroyer]

The change to true damage was a buff overall. What really nerfed bio is when the slow from his civs was changed so it doesn't stack. Now you can't get a good surround because people can just walk away from it if you don't get an atom smasher.

[Hanedog]

Could we maybe look at having bio's civ's be 3 different colors- representing 3 dmg types (phys, true, spell)? His lvl 1 civ throw starts with 3 so the correlation would be perfect. Possibly make them spawn based on the percentage of each stat (Agi - true dmg, Str - phy dmg, Int - spell dmg) so that %true dmg civs = agi/(str+agi+int) etc. etc. for each. Or set true damage and make str/int the only factors in civ spawn rate so that each civ does X amount of true damage + spell/physical based on int/str.

 

ORRRRRR

 

Possibly give bio a toggle between dmg type so that you control whether the civ's do physical/true OR spell/true (this could be indicated by a color change)- the toggle would be his passive.

 

Question- since civ's do physical and true dmg, does FoE proc when they attack? I would think they should but for some reason I don't think they actually do... If so, why don't they? What form of attack are civ's considered in order to not have their physical attack proc the FoE- I'm assuming it's because they aren't Bio himself but separate entities?

Edited January 22, 2014 by Hanedog

[heimdallr]

Could we maybe look at having bio's civ's be 3 different colors- representing 3 dmg types (phys, true, spell)? His lvl 1 civ throw starts with 3 so the correlation would be perfect. Possibly make them spawn based on the percentage of each stat (Agi - true dmg, Str - phy dmg, Int - spell dmg) so that %true dmg civs = agi/(str+agi+int) etc. etc. for each. Or set true damage and make str/int the only factors in civ spawn rate so that each civ does X amount of true damage + spell/physical based on int/str.

 

ORRRRRR

 

Possibly give bio a toggle between dmg type so that you control whether the civ's do physical/true OR spell/true (this could be indicated by a color change)- the toggle would be his passive.

 

Question- since civ's do physical and true dmg, does FoE proc when they attack? I would think they should but for some reason I don't think they actually do... If so, why don't they? What form of attack are civ's considered in order to not have their physical attack proc the FoE- I'm assuming it's because they aren't Bio himself but separate entities?

 

hey new guy....civs should proc pyre when they attack but I don´t think they do....so ulti becomes an auto kill....NOT lol !!! in all seriousness, no....the items that proc stuff on attack means when YOU attack....not the civs....the civs are not equipped with an item

[heimdallr]

I mean I agree with the originator of the post... its annoying not having Nitro proc on his ultimate. I understand the need to have some true damage to go through DST but I think it would be a more well-rounded Ult. I'm not calling for the Ult to deal the same true damage + some INT scale ... just a combo of both (with appropriate scaling) would be a nice re-work to make Bio relevant again.

 

even if civs did 1 spell damage would be enough to trigger nitro and ancient rune for example....or like the old days when the spell damage was part of the debuff ....it was besides the civs running and hitting you

[Hanedog]

hey new guy....civs should proc pyre when they attack but I don´t think they do....so ulti becomes an auto kill....NOT lol !!! in all seriousness, no....the items that proc stuff on attack means when YOU attack....not the civs....the civs are not equipped with an item

 

Which is fine but then why do civs not proc things like Electric mantle while Shadowmourne shadows do? I'm not 'New' as you tried to point out, and in fact am probably one of the oldest SotIS/AOS follows here, I'm simply pointing out the fact that Bio's ability to fill any major role other than 'excellent farmer,' falls off the later the game goes because there are so many counters to his most effective ability.

So maybe just add a half second stun to his ulti? Seems like it is missing something....

[heimdallr]

Which is fine but then why do civs not proc things like Electric mantle while Shadowmourne shadows do? I'm not 'New' as you tried to point out, and in fact am probably one of the oldest SotIS/AOS follows here, I'm simply pointing out the fact that Bio's ability to fill any major role other than 'excellent farmer,' falls off the later the game goes because there are so many counters to his most effective ability.

So maybe just add a half second stun to his ulti? Seems like it is missing something....

 

I know you are not new...I was just taunting you with that one lol....cause you know....the argument was flawed and IMO on purpose on your side....but yeah I do think something is missing on his ulti...your half a second stun doesnt sound so bad since it would allow the civs to at least get a slow on you of some kind

 

or add minor spell damage to the civs so they proc nitro and/or ancient rune

Edited January 23, 2014 by heimdallr

[Ancientmagicks]

If you made claymore have an aoe slow it would synergize well with the ulti giving you that initial slow you need to surround.

 

I don't think he is that bad as is tho. I remember back in the day when you saw a bio on the other team and immediately everyone got shm and he was shut down. Now not so much now a days.

[heimdallr]

If you made claymore have an aoe slow it would synergize well with the ulti giving you that initial slow you need to surround.

 

I don't think he is that bad as is tho. I remember back in the day when you saw a bio on the other team and immediately everyone got shm and he was shut down. Now not so much now a days.

 

or that claymore does what the tooltip said....to actually suck enemies inwards towards the center(you)....I´ve never noticed this actually happening....I guess its a feature now

[atomheartman]

or that claymore does what the tooltip said....to actually suck enemies inwards towards the center(you)....I´ve never noticed this actually happening....I guess its a feature now

 

I feel like claymore did it in the past.

[Hanedog]

That's why I think it would be great for them to bring back one of the coolest abilities in the game- Bio's old 'slow/root'. The one where the more you struggled, the more damage it did and slower you got. It was a great ability concept and would still synergize well with his current abilities. There is really only one way to properly use Ulti and civ throw to catch an enemy and it still doesn't mean you will get the kill...

 

Doesn't make a ton of sense to give him an ability that chucks civ's, pushing heroes away from his Ulti mob. Only time it actually works is if you wait burrowed for a double claymore and get out in front of an enemy hero with the second claymore and push him back towards the civ ball.