New and need advice!

[Tempest]

I am kinda new to this game, and even more to the new update since I've seen that the game took out boots. I tend to use heroes that are not on the popular side or on the commonly used side of the game (in my experience.) I tend to run with Vergil, Cyprus, and Marine King a lot since I don't see many people running them now, guessing cause they got nerfed or something. Because I haven't played in a while, I need advice on what items, talents, etc... To go with. If I start using a hero not mentioned before, I intend on using this thread as a guide to help me get better. I really like this game and I would hate to be a burden to my team.

[Moo]

First things first, this topic should probably be moved to the guides/strategy section. :)

 

As a rule of thumb, there are two talents you should always get, which are the health talent (because of the huge early game boost it provides, it is pretty much the best talent in the game IMO) and the movespeed talent (this is basically the replacement for boots). Other talents that are good in a lot of situations are the weapon damage talent, weapon speed talent, armor talent, spell resist talent, fortify, energy talent, cooldown reduction talent, and wealth talent. The talents I just listed above are talents you normally pick after getting the hp talent and movespeed. The weapon damage talent is useful on many heroes because it makes last-hitting and harassing early game easier and more effective, respectively. The weapon speed talent is good because it allows aa heroes to reach the attack speed cap earlier into the game, and it boosts early dps, so it is used for heroes that use their aa heavily. The armor and spell resist talents are both good for making you more tanky, obviously, and can be used on a lot of different heroes, but are mostly used on tanky heroes. Fortify is an extremely powerful skill, which replaces your F heal if you get it using talent points. It makes you very difficult to kill while it is active, even when playing a low hp hero, and so it is very valuable on a lot of heroes. The energy talent is very good on almost all heroes that use energy, since a lot of heroes mana pools are very low. The cooldown reduction talent is very good on heroes who rely on their skills to do damage, like casters, since it lets you use your skills more often. The wealth talent is good because it allows you to start with a good early game item, like lost treasure or duran's machette, right off the bat as a first item, which can help your early game a lot.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Moo

[Tempest]

I am also new to this website too, I joined just last night, is there a way to move this topic to guides/strategy section? Or do I just copy and paste my post in the guides/strategy section?

[Figgonson]

Nah, don't sweat it. If a mod wants to move this thread to guides, they will. Welcome to the forums btw!

[herman]

Virgil, MK, and Cyprus are all very different heroes. Cyprus is an int character with a "1-shot potential" as well as aoe damage with his pilars and explosion. I think Cooldown reduction, and energy talent fit well with him. His items are generally int items with gravity edge and symphonic seed being the most important.

 

Virgil has become more of a support character with the ability to massively change team fights with his AOE ultimate. I have seen Virgil be built in a variety of different ways so I think the talents really depend on your style. Support would have the health, armor, spell resist, maybe fortify ( 1-4-1) or (1-3-2) or even (0-4-2). I think no matter how you build virgil Nitrogen Retrofit is a must with his ability to spam his Q and then his AOE ultimate as well. I like to think of Virgil somewhat like Vorpal, support items like chilling, korhal, spellbuff are all good choices, but he needs to have enough int to make the opposing team have good positioning when his ultimate comes.

 

MK is one of (if not the best) pusher in the game. This is why recently balancing debate has come up on items like Coat of Arms and other "buffing" items. Coat of Arms and Korhal are very powerful on MK not only because they are support items for the rest of your team but they also buff your marines and whichever neutral your have taken over with your ultimate. This combined with the Firebat's damage buff really makes MK frustrating to deal with.

 

Hope that helps

[Tempest]

Like I said before, I really enjoy running with characters that I see nobody use anymore, I hardly see people running with MK or Cyprus, rarely I would see a Vergil. The heroes I see in like every game are like, Shadow, Boros, Nova, Zeratul, Jakk, Micro, Rancor, etc... I like playing as a heroes that nobody uses because then I wouldn't have to worry about anyone "stealing" my hero. For Vergil, I tend to get Paralax first, is this a wise decision or should I go for an item than buffs my INT and energy more like SFG? When I'm Cyprus, I tend to get Symphonic Seed first, and for MK I am just confused on what to get for his build. All I know is that I should get items that not only buff myself, but my teammates as well like Korhal, CoA, etc... Just out of curiosity, I see many builds with CoA and Dominion Standard, do they stack?

[Moo]

Like I said before, I really enjoy running with characters that I see nobody use anymore, I hardly see people running with MK or Cyprus, rarely I would see a Vergil. The heroes I see in like every game are like, Shadow, Boros, Nova, Zeratul, Jakk, Micro, Rancor, etc... I like playing as a heroes that nobody uses because then I wouldn't have to worry about anyone "stealing" my hero. For Vergil, I tend to get Paralax first, is this a wise decision or should I go for an item than buffs my INT and energy more like SFG? When I'm Cyprus, I tend to get Symphonic Seed first, and for MK I am just confused on what to get for his build. All I know is that I should get items that not only buff myself, but my teammates as well like Korhal, CoA, etc... Just out of curiosity, I see many builds with CoA and Dominion Standard, do they stack?

Some basic builds you can use until you can build situationally for these heroes are: Vergil: Items: Lost Treasure, Miner's Goggles, Gravity Edge, Nitrogen Retrofit, Symphonic Seeds, Yamato Reactor, Whatever you want to build (you already have your core items by this point, so you can just build an items that seems good to you at this point). Talents: Health, Armor, Energy, Cooldown Reduction, Movespeed, and Wealth. This build for Vergil aims to maximize his damage right after getting your gp10 items to boost your income by rushing gravity edge, which should let you almost one shot enemy heroes with a few Q's and a good ulti because of vergil's huge midgame dominance.

 

Cyprus: Lost Treasure, Miner's Goggles, Gravity Edge, Symphonic Seeds, Sunflare Gun, Yamato Reactor, Nitrogen Retrofit, Warp Shard. Talents: Waepon Damage, Health, Energy, Cooldown Reduction, Movespeed, Wealth. This build is very similar to vergil's because cyprus is also all about damage. He is very bursty, so this build focuses on more damage, cooldown reduction so you can burst more often, and adding more burst through sunflare.

 

Marine King: Miner's Goggles, Dominion Standard, Coat of Arms, Miner's Goggles, Khorhal Vanguard, Isomorphic Pyre, Force of Entropy, Shadowmourne, Darksteel Titan. Talents: Weapon Damage, Weapon Speed, Health, Armor, Energy, Movespeed. This build focuses on being tanky while still dealing a lot of dps, which allows marine king to shred towers and heroes while not dying easily himself.

[Tempest]

I've tried you build with king, Moo, and it is Awesome. I ended up getting a triple kill at the end of the game. However, my last question still stands, does dominion standard stack with CoA? Also, since a lot of those items are expensive and will take a long time to get, would an item like Explosive Retrofit help with King? Or would that be just a waste of money, also another item I've been wondering about is Lion's Bane... Are the items I'm thinking of not worth it for King? Or could I possibly use those items if I'm short on money.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Tempest

[ANARCHY]

dominion standard and CoA will not stack if worn by the same hero, however if 2 different heroes are carrying those items then it will

[JustBooomBina]

I will make a tutorial video and explain the basics!

[herman]

I've tried you build with king, Moo, and it is Awesome. I ended up getting a triple kill at the end of the game. However, my last question still stands, does dominion standard stack with CoA? Also, since a lot of those items are expensive and will take a long time to get, would an item like Explosive Retrofit help with King? Or would that be just a waste of money, also another item I've been wondering about is Lion's Bane... Are the items I'm thinking of not worth it for King? Or could I possibly use those items if I'm short on money.

 

Explosive retrofit would be a very ... very situational item for MK. If you already had pyre and you were facing some sort of push comp like a garamond and unix... then maybe. Otherwise Moo's build is very good on MK. Stick with Korhal and CoA as your core items and then items like Pyre, Organic Carapace, DST, lions bane would be ok because of the strength it provides but, I think Organic provides more to his skillset

[ginosaji]

Some basic builds you can use until you can build situationally for these heroes are: Vergil: Items: Lost Treasure, Miner's Goggles, Gravity Edge, Nitrogen Retrofit, Symphonic Seeds, Yamato Reactor, Whatever you want to build (you already have your core items by this point, so you can just build an items that seems good to you at this point). Talents: Health, Armor, Energy, Cooldown Reduction, Movespeed, and Wealth. This build for Vergil aims to maximize his damage right after getting your gp10 items to boost your income by rushing gravity edge, which should let you almost one shot enemy heroes with a few Q's and a good ulti because of vergil's huge midgame dominance.

 

Cyprus: Lost Treasure, Miner's Goggles, Gravity Edge, Symphonic Seeds, Sunflare Gun, Yamato Reactor, Nitrogen Retrofit, Warp Shard. Talents: Waepon Damage, Health, Energy, Cooldown Reduction, Movespeed, Wealth. This build is very similar to vergil's because cyprus is also all about damage. He is very bursty, so this build focuses on more damage, cooldown reduction so you can burst more often, and adding more burst through sunflare.

 

Marine King: Miner's Goggles, Dominion Standard, Coat of Arms, Miner's Goggles, Khorhal Vanguard, Isomorphic Pyre, Force of Entropy, Shadowmourne, Darksteel Titan. Talents: Weapon Damage, Weapon Speed, Health, Armor, Energy, Movespeed. This build focuses on being tanky while still dealing a lot of dps, which allows marine king to shred towers and heroes while not dying easily himself.

Sometimes in pubs I go 1-1-4 on vergil because people are bad and the extra damage on his AA can actually allow you to get some decent farm. I usually go Gravity>TPI (component of Yamato)>Seeds>Finish Yamato. Get parallax whenever you feel you need it. You should be nearly unkillable if you play him well and have a parallax. Flare gun isn't a bad option after Gravity and TPI either. Edited January 16, 2014 by ginosaji

[Yaldi]

First things first, this topic should probably be moved to the guides/strategy section. :)

 

It isn't a guide so its in the right place.

[Moo]

 

 

It isn't a guide so its in the right place.

He asked for advice on talents and builds, which I think should put it into the guides/strategy section, but it doesn't really matter to me.

[Mus]

He asked for advice on talents and builds, which I think should put it into the guides/strategy section, but it doesn't really matter to me.

 

No because the guide section is for actual guides! That means the OP has to be a guide, not a thread about a guy asking for help and people responding with mini-guides.

 

Seriously stop backseat modding dude, you ain't even doin' it right.

[Moo]

 

 

No because the guide section is for actual guides! That means the OP has to be a guide, not a thread about a guy asking for help and people responding with mini-guides.

 

Seriously stop backseat modding dude, you ain't even doin' it right.

I already told you in another thread with the same thing occurring, you can ask for a topic to be moved if you are respectful and nice, and a mod agreed with me confirming that this is true. The guides/strategy section is also used when asking for guides, and since the topic is mainly about helping a new player by providing some mini-guides that would lead to this topic belonging in the guides/strategy section. Moving the topic isn't really that big of a deal though, so I'll just quit talking about it now.

[Tempest]

I found another hero that I am interested in, I hardly see him around (much like Vergil) and want to get better at him, it's Balrog. He seems like a great tank. However, I know nothing about him, like what items to buy and talents to allocate etc... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also thanks for the MK advice, it really help me a lot.

[TaxHaven]

Build crit.

Buckler culling lethal axe dst khali atomsmasher contam galactic arch

[Tempest]

I don't understand what "Split pushing" exactly is, when I'm playing as MK, is that when I attack a tower and I send my marines with a bribed unit (preferably firebat for me) to a different tower and hit two towers at once?

[Moo]

I don't understand what "Split pushing" exactly is, when I'm playing as MK, is that when I attack a tower and I send my marines with a bribed unit (preferably firebat for me) to a different tower and hit two towers at once?

Split pushing is when you split off from your team (hence the name) and push a different lane than them, forcing the enemy team to split up to deal with you, or lose towers and try to kill your team 5v4.