ShadowFlame Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 While some people do have dumb ideas for the ability on their posts, I still think the ability is too powerful. Honestly, doubling the CD would be a great solution. This is something people never seem to want to do to change abilities. My main reason for making this is that I noticed people were saying that IH Chronosphere is one of the best abilities. I thought it was only like this in pubs, and was why the ability was never nerfed/changed. Ideas? Do other people think the ability should be changed/nerfed. Please don't type "no, get a taser". Taser "counters" every hero in the game, and definently doesn't work on Zeratul because planar stuns you before he ults. Hubert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I don't believe zeratul should be nerfed, since he requires a lot of skill and can easily flob his own team up accidentally. Also, if your carry and caster position well they can avoid the bubble and kill him from outside the bubble. Also, if the enemy team picks a zera, you should pick a counter to him if you think they have a guy who can play him well, or you got outdrafted since zera is easily countered by some heroes and is an important hero to shut down. Ironsights 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indo Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 since he requires a lot of skill and can easily flob his own team up accidentally. Also, if your carry and caster position well they can avoid the bubble and kill him from outside the bubble. Also, if the enemy team picks a zera, you should pick a counter to him if you think they have a guy who can play him well, or you got outdrafted since zera is easily countered by some heroes and is an important hero to shut down. I'm not picking at you, I just can't believe someone actually says this 1 he is important to shut down Y I agree 2 its easy to dodge? There is something called stunknife and planar 3 I have seen pubbers easily managing to not flob up their own team In my opinion, a assasin shouldn't have an aoe disable, but if you guys think its balanced, ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydie Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I'm not picking at you, I just can't believe someone actually says this 1 he is important to shut down Y I agree 2 its easy to dodge? There is something called stunknife and planar 3 I have seen pubbers easily managing to not flob up their own team In my opinion, a assasin shouldn't have an aoe disable, but if you guys think its balanced, ok A good Zeratul planars to get close, then ultimate. Then Qs and activates stun knife for another kill, then Qs again. In the hands of a competent Zeratul chain stunning is nasty, but most noobs can't even pull this off. Then again I think ultimate is balance, at a very high level of play it can be a tad OP but in the meta it's fine. For example most IH's (or pubhouses nowadays) have poor Zeratuls who mess up their own team - as Dustin I jizz. Also Nova/Darpa can decimate Zeratul while he's in his bubble, and impact dial/lb do wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indo Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) A good Zeratul planars to get close, then ultimate. Then Qs and activates stun knife for another kill, then Qs again. In the hands of a competent Zeratul chain stunning is nasty, but most noobs can't even pull this off. Then again I think ultimate is balance, at a very high level of play it can be a tad OP but in the meta it's fine. For example most IH's (or pubhouses nowadays) have poor Zeratuls who mess up their own team - as Dustin I jizz. Also Nova/Darpa can decimate Zeratul while he's in his bubble, and impact dial/lb do wonders. when I play zera, i mostly initiate with q on a hero that can't jump, then I press stunknife and bubble him at the same time, then i planar any close allies of him into the bubble/ the ranged one/ones, melees can't do crap But whatever from my experience... well bubble pretty much wrecks people even 2n1, since its a ring you can always port 2 people, if they are far away? even better planar one to you and his m8 will be to far away 2 help edit: don't want an entire post just for this one sentence @ skydie, the refresh on q after you killed any unit is bm and in midgame, it is a cooldown of 2 seconds becaus you may just turn around, give this creep 1-2 aas and then rejump on target Edited January 5, 2014 by Indo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydie Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 A good Zeratul planars to get close, then ultimate. Then after the ultimate has finished Qs and activates stun knife for another kill, then Qs again. In the hands of a competent Zeratul chain stunning is nasty, but most noobs can't even pull this off. Then again I think ultimate is balance, at a very high level of play it can be a tad OP but in the meta it's fine. For example most IH's (or pubhouses nowadays) have poor Zeratuls who mess up their own team - as Dustin I jizz. Also Nova/Darpa can decimate Zeratul while he's in his bubble, and impact dial/lb do wonders. I amended my post with bold. And yeh bubble can wreck people 2v1. But in any IH if you try any taliban tactics (*cough*Anax*cough*) you're going to get taken out fast, even if you do manage to kill their Raynor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I'm not picking at you, I just can't believe someone actually says this 1 he is important to shut down Y I agree 2 its easy to dodge? There is something called stunknife and planar 3 I have seen pubbers easily managing to not flob up their own team In my opinion, a assasin shouldn't have an aoe disable, but if you guys think its balanced, ok 2-I agree, it is not easy to dodge, but with proper positioning of your team, you can force zera to pick who to bubble and planar. If he picks carries (which he should), your tanks and supports can stop him using lockbox/sword breaker/impact dial/cc. If he chooses to bubble the tanks/supports your carries should be able to kill him from outside the bubble. A zeratul will not be able to get your whole team into the bubble unless you are badly positioned, he is a god, or his team did a very good job with combos (grouping you together with vorp, Jackson, etc.). 3- Yes, in pubs where positioning is basically not in existence, a zeratul can easily use bubble on multiple enemies without messing up his team. If the enemy were positioned correctly it would be difficult for him to bubble the important targets while keeping himself safe and not flobing his team (like hitting a teammate, placing the bubble so that it zones his own team, etc.). I have seen zeratul work in an inhouse (where he had told the other team he was picking zeratul nonetheless), but he relied heavily on our fed tychus to carry, and we mainly outdrafted our opponents IMO, and the zeratul was not very influential in our win IMO. I think that zeratul would be very underpowered if he did not have disable like his ulti. My reasons are that he has extremely low survivability, is melee, if he didn't have bubble he would be easily kited, he does low dps unless his W is proc'd (ulti is almost required to cause this to happen), and planar causes his skillcap to be very high, making him difficult to play to his full potential, and without bubble his full potential is rather low, since he would just be instantly focused and killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTHER Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think the AoE of his ult should be slightly reduced. This would allow heroes to attack him inside the bubble without getting accidentally caught at the edge of the bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overkill Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Nah zera is fine the way he is, good teamwork n all takes him down. just ward and dont be ganked and you'll be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indo Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Nah zera is fine the way he is, good teamwork n all takes him down. just ward and dont be ganked and you'll be fine yes and good teamwork beats bad teamworks seriously I'm sick of this shap talking about teamplay and all If one hero is doing a way bigger trubble to a whole team than most initiators, there is something wrong, its like drakes ulti, without dmg but also without and risk for zera, he can simply walk away while the spellscasters and ranged dps of his team flob all your mates inside of it, then go on to the rest of you guys Zera is suppost to get focused down? well he doesn't need to be in your range, why is it supposed to be him that is the treat? if you focus him down, his team will propably have killed 1-3 of the dudes in bubble [ rory is a pretty bm thing since stun is way longer in the bubble ( 5 times as long) and his stevie works a normal speed for the ones that didn't know this yet just incase there still are some] A hard burster shouldn't be supposed to have such good initiator potential, nor to literally aoe disable half a team When you say that good teamplay will counter his ulti, good teamplay will counter your teamplay countering his ulti Edited January 5, 2014 by Indo ShadowFlame and MOTHER 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaldi Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 No, get a taser. John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginosaji Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) yes and good teamwork beats bad teamworks seriously I'm sick of this shap talking about teamplay and all If one hero is doing a way bigger trubble to a whole team than most initiators, there is something wrong, its like drakes ulti, without dmg but also without and risk for zera, he can simply walk away while the spellscasters and ranged dps of his team flob all your mates inside of it, then go on to the rest of you guys Zera is suppost to get focused down? well he doesn't need to be in your range, why is it supposed to be him that is the treat? if you focus him down, his team will propably have killed 1-3 of the dudes in bubble [ rory is a pretty bm thing since stun is way longer in the bubble ( 5 times as long) and his stevie works a normal speed for the ones that didn't know this yet just incase there still are some] A hard burster shouldn't be supposed to have such good initiator potential, nor to literally aoe disable half a team When you say that good teamplay will counter his ulti, good teamplay will counter your teamplay countering his ulti Every single point that you've both brought up is nearly 100% subjective conjecture based on the combination of what you've experienced and how your mind stored and processed that information. This is what we post on the forums, none of us are perfectly objective. That said, I'd like to bring up that all 6 of the best players/ players with the most experience agree that zeratul is balanced. Davidchan, Highdrater, Quiddiitch, Destroyer, John, and Residente (although he's not been around for a few months) all think he's balanced, unless they've changed their opinions recently. Edited January 5, 2014 by ginosaji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydie Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 That said, I'd like to bring up that all 6 of the best players/ players with the most experience agree that zeratul is balanced. Davidchan, Highdrater, Quiddiitch, Destroyer, John, and Residente (although he's not been around for a few months) all think he's balanced, unless they've changed their opinions recently. Dat list lol. Didn't know it was April fools yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) yes and good teamwork beats bad teamworks seriously I'm sick of this shap talking about teamplay and all If one hero is doing a way bigger trubble to a whole team than most initiators, there is something wrong, its like drakes ulti, without dmg but also without and risk for zera, he can simply walk away while the spellscasters and ranged dps of his team flob all your mates inside of it, then go on to the rest of you guys Zera is suppost to get focused down? well he doesn't need to be in your range, why is it supposed to be him that is the treat? if you focus him down, his team will propably have killed 1-3 of the dudes in bubble [ rory is a pretty bm thing since stun is way longer in the bubble ( 5 times as long) and his stevie works a normal speed for the ones that didn't know this yet just incase there still are some] A hard burster shouldn't be supposed to have such good initiator potential, nor to literally aoe disable half a team When you say that good teamplay will counter his ulti, good teamplay will counter your teamplay countering his ulti Why do you think zera is not a popular pick in tourneys? Because good teamwork counters him even if zera's team also has good teamwork. The reason zera can do more than other initiators is that he is the squishiest of all initiators and has a high skillcap. The reason zera should be focused down is that he is very squishy, has to get close, and can dish out a lot of damage if left unchecked. There are heroes in this game that take priority when choosing who to focus, like kitty, shadow, zera, and other squishy hard carries that can dish out a lot of damage, that doesn't make those heroes OP. Zeratul would be the easiest hero in the game to kill if he did not have bubble. I would venture to say that he would be more underpowered than current egon unless they replaced his ulti with another mechanism for survival. Edited January 6, 2014 by Moo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescossey Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 zera bubble is good now. if you have decent movement speed you can get out of it. ling(ulti), tosh(ulti), predator(with his movement speed ability active) can run out of it no problems. then most other heroes with 2 movement speed items can run out. ive seen ppl use parallax generater get out no problems but I fail to see how that should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indo Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 zera bubble is good now. if you have decent movement speed you can get out of it. ling(ulti), tosh(ulti), predator(with his movement speed ability active) can run out of it no problems. then most other heroes with 2 movement speed items can run out. ive seen ppl use parallax generater get out no problems but I fail to see how that should work. The people you planar into the bubble are stunned for 4-5 seconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwarts Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Dat list lol. Didn't know it was April fools yesterday. Iono man the last time i played with you, You said you could only play nova or vergil. We ended up drafting you kerry. An easy as crap hero to play and you fed like 1-100. Just saying. I dont really appreciate the disrespect. The list Gino provided are all real solid players who browse and post on the forum. I dont think he was trying to come up with a list of who his tier 1 players are. But a list of people who are well respected and actually use this forum to back up his point. Onto zera. I think the points Moo brought up were pretty spot on. The hero can be extremely strong in the right hands. Quite honestly the only two people iv seen play Zera like a beast that makes me want to Nerf him is, WhaleTits and Highdrater. But they both have above average mechanics. In the hands of the average Joe. They hero is fine and most times under powered. Even Divineshashi's zera wasn't anything to be afraid of. And he had better mechanics then most. David could possibly have a pretty intense zera but i never seen him play it. But david normally plays what he finds fun. Or he finds the new OP flavor of the month and spams that hero in ever ih. Once a hero is tweaked or change into a nerf he wont touch it. and finds the new op. Take a note im talking about actual game mechanics. Not game experience and knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydie Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Iono man the last time i played with you, You said you could only play nova or vergil. We ended up drafting you kerry. An easy as crap hero to play and you fed like 1-100. Just saying. I dont really appreciate the disrespect. The list Gino provided are all real solid players who browse and post on the forum. I dont think he was trying to come up with a list of who his tier 1 players are. But a list of people who are well respected and actually use this forum to back up his point. 1-100? 1-7 in beta on Kerry trying out int style.. I've never fed like a 1-12 (such as you in an actual IH) with Kerry then hardcore blamed team. I've not seen the majority of the listed players play Zeratul (some don't often go carries in IH). I'd rate a few EU players far better, African/Zeeend for example and add in Titties. Plus I only play Nova/Darpa now :D More fun to BM the other team when you inevitably KS your whole team and get a nice score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbogyt Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 1-100? 1-7 in beta on Kerry trying out int style.. I've never fed like a 1-12 (such as you in an actual IH) with Kerry then hardcore blamed team. I've not seen the majority of the listed players play Zeratul (some don't often go carries in IH). I'd rate a few EU players far better, African/Zeeend for example and add in Titties. Plus I only play Nova/Darpa now :D More fun to BM the other team when you inevitably KS your whole team and get a nice score. Indeed, it was probably bad team mates like Quidditch who quit on and ditched you in team fights. Skydie is the true professional here. No sarcasm intended. Skydie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mus Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I've witnessed Skydie's Darpa first hand. He went 1v1 vs Medic and had to run because he was losing. 'Nuff said. Rogue and skwar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuZ Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Stick to the topic please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EterNity Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Zera isn't a problem if you have a team that know how to play the game correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
residente Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Zera isn't a problem if you have a team that know how to play the game correctly. I guess no one is a problem if you have such team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EterNity Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 The posts in the balance debate should base on 2 balanced team against each other not common public teams. You don't change the rules of professional sports like basketball or baseball base on that community league that your neighborhood put together. Also, you don't put your community team against NBA or MLB teams and then complain about certain aspects of the game being unfair. Hogwarts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 The posts in the balance debate should base on 2 balanced team against each other not common public teams. You don't change the rules of professional sports like basketball or baseball base on that community league that your neighborhood put together. Also, you don't put your community team against NBA or MLB teams and then complain about certain aspects of the game being unfair. Shall we balance for the majority or minority? ShadowFlame and MOTHER 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.