2 things.

[Revolution]

So after a couple of months of not playing AoS, I played a match to see whats been going on.. Two extremely stupid things stuck out to me.

 

1. Towers should not have regen or at least very little. I took about a 5th of top t1 towers health, came back 3 waves later and its full hp again... That is dumb as flob.

 

2. The super creep every 3 waves is probably the most broken and retarded thing i have ever seen in AoS/sotis.. No, in any Moba. It's like a little lane boss every 3 waves. I tried to fight a nova 1v1 and would have won if not for the super creep taking half of my hp in 3 hits.

 

The game would be so much better without those 2 things.

[Midknight]

Towers don't regen naturally, afaik, but some heroes have ways to heal them via abilities. Toxi's mephitic armor comes to mind and I think there's one other but I can't remember what it is atm. Regarding the super creep wave, it just adds a layer of tactical planning; if you could take the guy except for the presence of the supercreep, but there's a supercreep... you can't take the guy.

[hbogyt]

Tower regen naturally unless I missed a patch note.

[aletoledo]

Towers regen on their own. I like it, because it gives purpose to saving a tower. If one gets down to it's last HP, then it's nice because you can babysit it for a few minutes to let it get back up in strength and then go back to help your team.

[Midknight]

I never noticed any regen significant enough to consider. I'll have to run a test on it, I guess.

[zeeeend]

Changelog 1.137

 

Towers

- HP Regen reduced to 2 from 3.

 

edit*

 

On the subject of bosscreeps, i agree ganking with one of those in lane just results in a death for the aggressor.

Edited December 18, 2013 by zeeeend

[aletoledo]

 

On the subject of bosscreeps, i agree ganking with one of those in lane just results in a death for the aggressor.

Which is why it really helps those of us that play non-ganking characters. If someone is absolutely dominating a lane, where I can't even get close to last hit anything, then my only chance to get any money is to farm when the boss creep is there protecting me. For those thinking that it's a mark of skill by the aggressive ganker, the problem is that it reduces the ability of support heroes to farm at all. In essence a support hero thats alone in a lane is "supporting" the boss cree, where otherwise he doesn't belong alone.

[Indo]

well you even have a good chance killing him but you need to leave the fight with more then 450 hp or the siegecreep will kill you with its uberrange ( its not the dmg nor the range, but the combination is just....)

[ShadowFlame]

The boss creeps really add a way for weaker laning heros to fight in lanes without getting harassed to death. I would like them, but their range should be decreased by 1, because I do find that extremely annoying.

[Revolution]

Which is why it really helps those of us that play non-ganking characters. If someone is absolutely dominating a lane, where I can't even get close to last hit anything, then my only chance to get any money is to farm when the boss creep is there protecting me. For those thinking that it's a mark of skill by the aggressive ganker, the problem is that it reduces the ability of support heroes to farm at all. In essence a support hero thats alone in a lane is "supporting" the boss cree, where otherwise he doesn't belong alone.

 

Thats called losing your lane. Your team should help your lane start to win not a OP flobing creep every 3 waves. That takes away a lot from teamplay. A "support" hero should never be in a lane alone because wtf is he supporting then? Nothing. Solo short lane should be a carry of some sort and solo long lane should be a person with a good escape ability or great wave clear. The real problem is the boss creep prevents ganks every 3 waves making the game more passive and reduces team play because you are relying on the creep to help you farm and not your team.

 

As for tower regen. The regen does not even close give a reason to save a tower.. Towers are what? Like 150-200 gold per player? The 2 reasons you save a tower is for map control and so your opponents don't get 1k global gold. The regen just drags out the laning phase substantially for no reason whatsoever.

[EterNity]

AoS is unique in its own way and that's how our developers like it.

 

They don't want to be imposer of DotA 2 or LoL.

 

The siege creeps is over-powered if you put it in DotA 2 or LoL and that's how it makes AoS unique compare to them.

 

The tower regen on its own but you cannot rebuild towers (That will be copying Hero Attack) so AoS is unique in this way.

 

Try to find the philosophy behind those changes and you will understand that AoS is trying very hard to be unique in its own way no matter the costs.

[Yaldi]

The recent spate of mibdless pushing strats have been cause by these ridiculous mega creeps.

 

If this game wants to be more unique go back to the old reasons people loved it. Tge fast paced gank centric tping everywhere for tower defending fighting at bosses which let you snowball etc game that it used to be. Rather than this pitiful meta that exists right now.

 

 

[Skydie]

The recent spate of mibdless pushing strats have been cause by these ridiculous mega creeps.

 

If this game wants to be more unique go back to the old reasons people loved it. Tge fast paced gank centric tping everywhere for tower defending fighting at bosses which let you snowball etc game that it used to be. Rather than this pitiful meta that exists right now.

 

Thing is, before Jungle was viable people used to QQ due to lack of it. Now we have far more neutrals, yet laning is dull. I honestly find most IH lanes mundane and the majority of the time (due to the heroes I play) when I'm actually laning (not too often) the lane phase is lame. Normally I'm vs a tower hugging solo and the only 'challenge' is last hits/denying creep - there's not point even pushing back or attempting to with super creep. Even during 2v2 lanes, the lane is often frigid and the back of the mind presence of a jungle instills that fear.

[Yaldi]

That is because the jungler is a high dps carry witha stun knife + easy initiation from one of their skills...

[Hogwarts]

Guys you have the honor of posting in a thread by a Tier 1 Zera player.

 

Now onto the topic at hand

 

You should of been here a few months ago revolt when towers had 5 hp regen. thats 300 health a min. Right now i think its 2 hp.

 

Aos has always had natural regen on its towers. But it was buffed because in an effort to decrease game time Eco reduced the artifact from 14k effective health / shield when implemented down to 6k effective health. Then people caught on that split pushing was a guaranteed win. You saw an explosion of Marr Mk Gara being spammed every game. People would even pick shadow for his amazing kit that is perfect to split push back door and get the transport talent on him. There only goal was to split push. And you simply could not lose. With this strat. Any dps hero could solo a tower if they had a wep speed item and shadow mourn. After a lot of complaints the Towers got a huge buff and they have been slowly nerfed to the current state. I think the artifact now has 8k effective health. Transport was nerfed and a lot of the pushing heroes got nerfed.

 

Then we got into the problem that people thought the games were lasting to long. So the devs put in these super massive walking towers. These ultras and Arcons had 4k hp at lvl 1 and dealt 150 splash dmg. Then around the same time the scaling of the creep was doubled. And still is to this day. So at the 20 min mark your fighting creep your used to fight at the 40 min mark. The point of these siege creeps with retarded tank and strength was to help push into the base to help end the game faster. But they caused all kinds of problems in the lane because there so incredibly strong devs didnt want MK to ult them so they were heroic for the longest time. So they proced all of the heroic passives on heroes. Like zera cloak, Leo speed. Rory stevie.. etc... Also because there heroic once the tower started attacking it it would not stop until it died. Allowing the enemy free reign to poke u attack u at your tower. Now these had 4k hp mind you so it took a long time for the turret to kill it. After many many complaints they were changed into the current units. Having around 1200 health and dealing like 130 dmg at lvl 1. And now there considered Massive like levi and aeon. There still annoying as crap but much better. And at least now when you attack them in the lane you don't proc all the neutral camps like you used to.

 

 

Well im done with this little history lesson. There absolutely far from perfect and horrible game mechanics. I agree

[Skydie]

Guys you have the honor of posting in a thread by a Tier 1 Zera player.

 

Now onto the topic at hand

 

You should of been here a few months ago revolt when towers had 5 hp regen. thats 300 health a min. Right now i think its 2 hp.

 

Aos has always had natural regen on its towers. But it was buffed because in an effort to decrease game time Eco reduced the artifact from 14k effective health / shield when implemented down to 6k effective health. Then people caught on that split pushing was a guaranteed win. You saw an explosion of Marr Mk Gara being spammed every game. People would even pick shadow for his amazing kit that is perfect to split push back door and get the transport talent on him. There only goal was to split push. And you simply could not lose. With this strat. Any dps hero could solo a tower if they had a wep speed item and shadow mourn. After a lot of complaints the Towers got a huge buff and they have been slowly nerfed to the current state. I think the artifact now has 8k effective health. Transport was nerfed and a lot of the pushing heroes got nerfed.

 

Then we got into the problem that people thought the games were lasting to long. So the devs put in these super massive walking towers. These ultras and Arcons had 4k hp at lvl 1 and dealt 150 splash dmg. Then around the same time the scaling of the creep was doubled. And still is to this day. So at the 20 min mark your fighting creep your used to fight at the 40 min mark. The point of these siege creeps with retarded tank and strength was to help push into the base to help end the game faster. But they caused all kinds of problems in the lane because there so incredibly strong devs didnt want MK to ult them so they were heroic for the longest time. So they proced all of the heroic passives on heroes. Like zera cloak, Leo speed. Rory stevie.. etc... Also because there heroic once the tower started attacking it it would not stop until it died. Allowing the enemy free reign to poke u attack u at your tower. Now these had 4k hp mind you so it took a long time for the turret to kill it. After many many complaints they were changed into the current units. Having around 1200 health and dealing like 130 dmg at lvl 1. And now there considered Massive like levi and aeon. There still annoying as crap but much better. And at least now when you attack them in the lane you don't proc all the neutral camps like you used to.

 

 

Well im done with this little history lesson. There absolutely far from perfect and horrible game mechanics. I agree

 

This is mostly stuff this year? You need to start in Non-member 2012, where the developers, against mumbles general perception, began radical LoL like changes. EKCO/Red clearly said they wished games to be shorter (in fairness some where huge), but push comps have overstepped the mark imho. You can do shap all game, and then just push. I remember an IH once where our team were getting owned by Queen repteadly spamming our towers and the other teams keeping us back on our T2 Protoss tower. After 10-20 mins of getting raped, losing 2/3 fights, we won one team fight. Using transporter/Maar all our team just teled into the other teams base and quickly won [before transporter nerf]. I think transporter was nerfed a few days after that - I think I still have the replay but that was the single best replay for showing the metagame being flawed. Losing for 3/4 of game? NP. Go tele and win.

 

Lessons of that example can still be learned today, if devs still played the game with us.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Skydie

[ginosaji]

This is mostly stuff this year? You need to start in Non-member 2012, where the developers, against mumbles general perception, began radical LoL like changes. EKCO/Red clearly said they wished games to be shorter (in fairness some where huge), but push comps have overstepped the mark imho. You can do shap all game, and then just push. I remember an IH once where our team were getting owned by Queen repteadly spamming our towers and the other teams keeping us back on our T2 Protoss tower. After 10-20 mins of getting raped, losing 2/3 fights, we won one team fight. Using transporter/Maar all our team just teled into the other teams base and quickly won [before transporter nerf]. I think transporter was nerfed a few days after that - I think I still have the replay but that was the single best replay for showing the metagame being flawed. Losing for 3/4 of game? NP. Go tele and win.

 

Lessons of that example can still be learned today, if devs still played the game with us.

 

You make it sound like the world has ended. Yes, I still think push/split push is a little too strong, but it's much better than before. The devs have listened to us on a few things, although it may have been slower than we liked. Noobdrafter has made some really good changes in the past few months that have really changed the IH meta, without him I don't think we would have gotten these changes. Many of the major pushers and all the tier 1 heroes have gotten nerfs. Before it was easy to draft, just worry about the 6 tier 1 heroes and then fill in an AA and a caster, whoever won the race to the tier ones would win. Now team composition, laning, push/counterpush/splitpush, CC, pull, counter initiation, Damage out/in, and teamfight strength are all important again. Yes, there's still work to be done, but it has improved in the last few months. It's especially apparent to me as someone who captains frequently, maybe 50-75% of the games I play. Captaining was so easy 3 months ago. Now I actually have to consider everything, it's really shown me that my understanding of the game isn't all that strong, I just knew how to outdraft for the tier ones.

 

@revolution

 

Regen: It usually doesn't make that big of a difference except in laning phase. Regen is still high enough to make it not really worth even trying to put damage on towers before you try to push it down, which is annoying. I advocated awhile ago to take regen off of T1s for that reason.

[DavidChan]

back then i could take 2 towers with micro alone when they ignored me for couple waves. GG when it was still sotis

[CrazySoldier]

back then i could take 2 towers with micro alone when they ignored me for couple waves. GG when it was still sotis

that is cause there is no tps

[Skydie]

It's especially apparent to me as someone who captains frequently, maybe 50-75% of the games I play. Captaining was so easy 3 months ago. Now I actually have to consider everything, it's really shown me that my understanding of the game isn't all that strong, I just knew how to outdraft for the tier ones.

 

 

I don't captain much. But when I do:

 

Edited December 20, 2013 by Skydie