grunty ultimate

[DeMolitionNR]

I used to love gruntys old ways how he could regain hp and mana ontop of speed and I think weopon speed aswell may I suggest that we bring it back and the 3 marrine dropping items. Was he to op? I left for a few months and it changed but idk how

 

[Moo]

I think grunty is a good hero right now, so he doesn't need a buff like that. I am extremely horrible at him though, so perhaps a good grunty player's opinion would be more credible.

[Adversary]

The hp/mana/attack speed bonus in river made him too powerful of a ganker. He already has the best movement speed in the game (in the river and lvl 3 ult) and not to mention some items that make his auto attack hit HARD. The rocket nerf was unnecessary IMO, if you stand in the same spot and expect Grunty to not rocket you, run in and shotgun you back to your death... you need to learn how to play... For now though I recommend getting the item that gives you charges to gain health/mana based on how many last hits you have gathered, and grab Haste talent to get that extra attack speed (and some more movement speed) and you pretty much have old Grunty!

[DeMolitionNR]

:-D

[Indo]

I think grunty is a good hero right now, so he doesn't need a buff like that. I am extremely horrible at him though, so perhaps a good grunty player's opinion would be more credible.

 

why do you even post when you yourself think that you have no idea of what its about?

 

edit: @Adversary: you know what was fun, when you used rocket, then teleport to tower where enemie attacks---> people would wait close to your warp point and get hit by rocket--> then you would show up and finish him while he bms at you and says flob this

It was hilarious but only worked in pubs + molgloo hits fromt the other side by luck was some hilarious shap when they died to a single creep wave early, or sending the rocket from your pool to enemie neutrals--> neutrals would kill them before the stun was off

Edited December 20, 2013 by Indo

[Moo]

 

 

why do you even post when you yourself think that you have no idea of what its about?

I did not say I didn't know anything about grunty, I said I was horrible at him. I am also horrible at garamond, yet I know that he can solo a tower with just CoA and shadowmourne without any creeps. I am horrible at Maar, but I know that the shields, damage from his drain ability, waveclear, and his ulti's utility are extremely powerful. Being horrible at a hero does not mean you know nothing about a hero, don't assume things that are not true.

[ginosaji]

His Ult is fine... It places him more firmly in his position as a mid game dominant, snowball, gank, splitpusher, rather than a true hard carry like darpa or Nova. The speed is more useful in early and mid game when battles happen around the river more often.

[Indo]

I did not say I didn't know anything about grunty, I said I was horrible at him. I am also horrible at garamond, yet I know that he can solo a tower with just CoA and shadowmourne without any creeps. I am horrible at Maar, but I know that the shields, damage from his drain ability, waveclear, and his ulti's utility are extremely powerful. Being horrible at a hero does not mean you know nothing about a hero, don't assume things that are not true.

 

i was simply wondering WHY THE flob YOU EVEN POST when you can't help the tread to find an answer( besides troll what i can 100% understand).

 

Srsly get yourself some hobbys besides posting totally asumed stuff that just shows how you don't understand the game

[ginosaji]

i was simply wondering WHY THE flob YOU EVEN POST when you can't help the tread to find an answer( besides troll what i can 100% understand).

 

Srsly get yourself some hobbys besides posting totally asumed stuff that just shows how you don't understand the game

 

Why is he not allowed to have an opinion? This entire site is one large accumulation of opinions. None of us can ever hope to achieve objectivity in our judgement or understanding. To do so would necessitate that we become the thing itself, therefore we would cease to be "us." Since none of us will achieve objectivity, we govern ourselves through a group theory pseudo-truth.

 

Are you the one who has finally seen the sun and returned with Truth to our humble cave? We here, unfortunately still cling to our reflections and echos, unable to truly see.

 

Your tone assumes you have the answers. Do you? You can have an opinion of a hero without being the preeminent player of said hero. Understanding of a hero is based much more on the capabilities of said hero when played to it's fullest, rather than actually being able to play the hero near it's skill cap. Maar is one that comes to mind for me. I can't play Maar at an IH level... I fear a great Maar player more than possibly any other hero in the game when played to his fullest extent. I've played with and against the best Maar players in the game. I know what Maar can do to a team if played properly. I know he's a strong split pusher, zoner, counter-push, utility, ranged caster, even an INT hyper carry. I know the ins and outs of what he can do. Does that mean I can't have an opinion on how to balance him?

 

I am not the authority on game knowledge either, I acknowledge that other people can have a better understanding of things than myself. That said, I think I have a pretty good understanding and I would wager I have much more experience in competitive games than you. I disagree with what you have to say far more often than I disagree with Moo. Does that mean everything I have to say is better than what you say? No, it doesn't. But I can say I probably have a better understanding of competitive games in general than you.

[Skydie]

Why is he not allowed to have an opinion? This entire site is one large accumulation of opinions. None of us can ever hope to achieve objectivity in our judgement or understanding. To do so would necessitate that we become the thing itself, therefore we would cease to be "us." Since none of us will achieve objectivity, we govern ourselves through a group theory pseudo-truth.

 

Are you the one who has finally seen the sun and returned with Truth to our humble cave? We here, unfortunately still cling to our reflections and echos, unable to truly see.

 

Your tone assumes you have the answers. Do you? You can have an opinion of a hero without being the preeminent player of said hero. Understanding of a hero is based much more on the capabilities of said hero when played to it's fullest, rather than actually being able to play the hero near it's skill cap. Maar is one that comes to mind for me. I can't play Maar at an IH level... I fear a great Maar player more than possibly any other hero in the game when played to his fullest extent. I've played with and against the best Maar players in the game. I know what Maar can do to a team if played properly. I know he's a strong split pusher, zoner, counter-push, utility, ranged caster, even an INT hyper carry. I know the ins and outs of what he can do. Does that mean I can't have an opinion on how to balance him?

 

I am not the authority on game knowledge either, I acknowledge that other people can have a better understanding of things than myself. That said, I think I have a pretty good understanding and I would wager I have much more experience in competitive games than you. I disagree with what you have to say far more often than I disagree with Moo. Does that mean everything I have to say is better than what you say? No, it doesn't. But I can say I probably have a better understanding of competitive games in general than you.

 

I have had good experiences with Indo in EU IH. He RQed during draft (lol :D). He is a fellow member of the EU clan 'bm' of which I am a member. The clantag is [ursist] - our motives are obvious.

 

Understanding of competitive games means shap. I am on nice terms here with both 'Moo' and 'Indo' but I partially agree with what both have to say. On the one hand I am slightly peeved that the forums has turned to a 'noob-fest' with many unintentional troll builds being posted that are counter-intiuitive. But on the other hand it's true to a point that you can be bad at a hero and still critcise/give tips (think the general public critiquing football players in the Champions league).

 

Gino makes a point, although I disagree with most of the content of what he has said. But that's the beauty of the forums - each to their own. Unfortunately he did slip into ad-hominem territory by directly calling out Indo which makes me less inclined to agree with him - I for one have never learned Maar and refuse to do so. However as a result I don't comment on the balance of Maar (except occasionally his ultimate which requires very little knowledge).

 

As a side note I am officially the tome of knowledge of competitive games after my thrashing of Highdrater (1-0). I have offered DarKs and other teams 1 on 5 tuition on lessons including; Mind games, trolling, fake bans, player mentality and post game BM. Contact my agent Notoogien or my scribe Mus for details and pricing.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Skydie

[TaxHaven]

Your scribe needs to be fired. He typed 'One the one hand' instead of 'On the one hand'.

[Indo]

Why is he not allowed to have an opinion? This entire site is one large accumulation of opinions. None of us can ever hope to achieve objectivity in our judgement or understanding. To do so would necessitate that we become the thing itself, therefore we would cease to be "us." Since none of us will achieve objectivity, we govern ourselves through a group theory pseudo-truth.

 

I am not the authority on game knowledge either, I acknowledge that other people can have a better understanding of things than myself. That said, I think I have a pretty good understanding and I would wager I have much more experience in competitive games than you. I disagree with what you have to say far more often than I disagree with Moo. Does that mean everything I have to say is better than what you say? No, it doesn't. But I can say I probably have a better understanding of competitive games in general than you.

 

i was just thinking that the statement : "he does not need any change" without any reason for the why or anything in general is just unnecessary.

It would also be nice when people actually state why they think so in forums or it can't be discussed or rethinked.

[Moo]

 

 

i was just thinking that the statement : "he does not need any change" without any reason for the why or anything in general is just unnecessary.

It would also be nice when people actually state why they think so in forums or it can't be discussed or rethinked.

If that is really why you got so uptight, just ask me why....

[Indo]

If that is really why you got so uptight, just ask me why....

 

your opinion didn't really interest me... its just the kind of post you did.

 

Only saying yes/no and thats it.. whats so hard about actually doing posts that are valuable

[Mus]

Looking for work as a scribe. Recently unemployed. PM me for my resume. References from my previous employer (Skydie) are not available upon request. Thanks.

[Moo]

 

 

your opinion didn't really interest me... its just the kind of post you did.

 

Only saying yes/no and thats it.. whats so hard about actually doing posts that are valuable

If my opinion doesn't interest you then why did you want me to explain why? I did not just say yes/no, quit saying things that are simply not true. Seriously, just because you don't like something I say/do does not mean you should be BM and insult me.

[Indo]

I think grunty is a good hero right now, so he doesn't need a buff like that.

I did not just say yes/no, quit saying things that are simply not true.

Now let me explain why this was totally bullshap

 

Where is he talking about a buff? wasn't he just asking to "bring it back" or change it so that it doesn't only give movespeed?

Then you only state: no he does not he is good becaus of what? cuz you think he simply is.

and now you tell me you didn't simply say yes or no?

 

I also didn't insult you yet, insult looks way different. What i did was simply asking you to make your post more productive when you have to spam the forums the way you do

[Mus]

PropaGandalf in action! Let me see dat bm.

[Moo]

 

 

Now let me explain why this was totally bullshap

 

Where is he talking about a buff? wasn't he just asking to "bring it back" or change it so that it doesn't only give movespeed?

Then you only state: no he does not he is good becaus of what? cuz you think he simply is.

and now you tell me you didn't simply say yes or no?

 

I also didn't insult you yet, insult looks way different. What i did was simply asking you to make your post more productive when you have to spam the forums the way you do

Giving Grunty extra attack speed and regen in the river is a buff. I did not just say yes/no, I basically said that I do not think the change should be implemented because grunty is already a good carry and a buff is not needed.

 

 

i was simply wondering WHY THE flob YOU EVEN POST when you can't help the tread to find an answer( besides troll what i can 100% understand).

 

Srsly get yourself some hobbys besides posting totally asumed stuff that just shows how you don't understand the game

This is an insult.

 

I have already had this discussion with others, but I suppose I can say it again. I do not post to spam the forums. I post to contribute to discussion, reply to posts directed at myself, to agree/disagree with something, and to welcome people to the forums on introduction topics. I post to keep things moving on the forums. I am one of few that post to help people in creating their heroes. I always make sure to give feedback on everything that I can, because if only a very small amount of people post anything, the topic dies from lack of discussing and the person's question can remain unanswered. I do not post for a higher post count, and I wish people would quit accusing me of this just because I post a lot.

[TaxHaven]

Yea we had this argument too.

[Indo]

Giving Grunty extra attack speed and regen in the river is a buff. I did not just say yes/no, I basically said that I do not think the change should be implemented because grunty is already a good carry and a buff is not needed.

 

 

why shouldn't the movespeed it gives be decreased while adding attackspeed and regen? its not said anywhere that it isn't or is.

 

seriously if you can't help the topic, don't contribute to it. If you want to state your opinion, ok.

 

But atleast:

 

1) state the reasons why you think so if you have to do this on every single topic

 

2) do this in the same post as where you stated your opinion,

 

3) edit them if you want to add something instead of adding another post

 

4) if you want to know what insults really are, pm me since I'd get banned if I'd do this in public

[ginosaji]

@Indo

"I also didn't insult you yet, insult looks way different. What i did was simply asking you to make your post more productive when you have to spam the forums the way you do"

"i was simply wondering WHY THE flob YOU EVEN POST when you can't help the tread to find an answer( besides troll what i can 100% understand).

 

Srsly get yourself some hobbys besides posting totally asumed stuff that just shows how you don't understand the game "

 

This is pretty insulting, I probably should have warned you to be entirely honest. The post that you're so enraged about Indo is a perfectly reasonable response to the thread topic. No offense to the OP, but none of the competitive community think Grunty needs a buff and no one else has talked about changing him. The OP admitted himself that he's been away for a few months. It's been a really long time since grunty's Ult was different from the current version, in fact, I don't ever remember it being different and I've been playing about a year now. So, It seems to me that the OP downplayed how out of the loop he was. To be entirely honest, the opinion of someone that's been away from the game for an extended period really isn't valuable to help balance... It may actually be destructive because it detracts from informed discussion. I would never censor something simply because it's uninformed, freedom of speech and all. All I'm saying is that this topic is pretty uninformed and won't really go anywhere because the OP is out of the loop and the mumble community isn't backing what he says. To get things done around here, you need broad mumble support and a decent forum response. Moo responded to an uninformed thread topic by saying that he thinks that grunty is "a good hero right now" i.e. balanced. Op is saying, "hey let's change this hero." Moo's response is saying, no don't change it, he's balanced. Moo responded with just as much content as the OP posted in the thread topic. How could moo's response go into detail when the thread topic post didn't go into detail?

 

Giving Grunty weapon speed, mana, and hp regen seems like a buff, although the OP wasn't very specific.

 

I've had this discussion with more than a few of you as well... I've had my eye on Moo's posting over the past months because initially his post count alarmed me. His posting is fine, look at his post history, then compare it to anyone else on the forum. His history contains the same distribution of low, medium, and high content posts as anyone else. On top of that, he posts content heavy remarks in suggestions sub-forum and goes out of his way to point intro threads in the right direction. Very few if any of you in here can claim to contribute more to the the forum than he does. Not only does he contribute, but he doesn't get upset after nearly endless harassment from the older members of the forum for the frequency of activity. I've followed up on dozens of accusations that he's been spamming and maybe one was a very low content post. Simply put, the handful of you that keep accusing him of spamming are wrong. Your accusations are misplaced. You're participating in nothing more than a witch hunt. Not only has Moo responded honorably, defending himself amiably, he hasn't reported or complained a single time about all the misplaced accusations. He's stood his ground, taken it, and sought to refute the claims against him while refraining from stooping to the level of BM that his accusers have.

 

TL;DR

Leave the moderating to the Moderator's. Vigilantism promotes witch hunting, which is what is going on here. Our job as moderators is to maintain the forum. Let us do our job. Yes, moderating has been shaky lately, we've brought on some new people, but we all want the same thing, don't forget that. If you have a concern about a post or a user, report them or pm a mod about it, refrain from circumventing the system.

Edited December 28, 2013 by ginosaji

[Skydie]

No offense to the OP, but none of the competitive community think Grunty needs a buff and no one else has talked about changing him.

 

Disagree. Grunty when played right is OP, at the moment Shadowmourne is a beast item on him. I believe in the current IH 'league' that Shadowmourne + Grunty is underused, it's an excellent carry for T3-T5 players who are likely to let Grunty farm up and decimate. True in higher tier games Grunty is locked down, but then again have we even had one of those in the past few months? People are just too scared to pick Grunty in IHs at the moment to see his power.

[ginosaji]

Disagree. Grunty when played right is OP, at the moment Shadowmourne is a beast item on him. I believe in the current IH 'league' that Shadowmourne + Grunty is underused, it's an excellent carry for T3-T5 players who are likely to let Grunty farm up and decimate. True in higher tier games Grunty is locked down, but then again have we even had one of those in the past few months? People are just too scared to pick Grunty in IHs at the moment to see his power.

 

The problem there lies with Shadowmourne imo, not grunty.

[jamescossey]

in the right hands grunty even with out shadow mourne is very strong. but you have to be good with him. rocket stun, run behind enemy and shot gun them away from safety. most ppl freak out and just try and run to their tower which grunty is blocking. with shadow mourne it just makes grunty really strong dps with out needed fear tactics. but yes shadow mourne procs his passive for like 180 true damage at level 18.