oXide Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 I want everyones opinion on the change i suggest for zeratul's ult that increases the skill required slightly and makes it more of a skill shot instead of just R click on whole enemy team. My suggestion would be to decrease the radius of his bubble by half or even more but change it back to a 1000% time bubble where u cant move at all and prob decrease how long it stays up. this will be a nerf/buff nerf to its radius and time but a buff that they can no longer just walk out of the bubble or be pulled out of it as easily ( all pulls will move very slowly until they reach a target). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxHaven Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 Nty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowFlame Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 Just change it completely, I don't like the ability. It is lame and fun-killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captcpc Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 This would actually lower the skill required by increasing his damage output and increasing his precision so that there's less of a risk of catching allies. Currently there's enough counters to it, even in pubs. Though I'd personally love to see Chronograph again. Fun ultimate, if not completely broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lios Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 His E is already high skill cap enuf, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomheartman Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 The problem of bubble is a player skill. We can see lots of badass bubbles in pubs - thats why i think it is bad ultimate, lots of mates were stuck in bubble and got killed by enemy. And lots of mates was saved by allied Zera, Drake or Boros. The only one counter for bubble is a team play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysi Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 The only one counter for bubble is a team play. Once caught in bubble yes(along with activating E Mantle, which will buy time). But there are still ways to avoid being caught. Such as predicting when they are going to planar or bubble and avoid it or just tasering the Zera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphynx Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) I think in-house Zera is just fine. While Pub Zera is a little strong. Due to the ease of catching and killing heroes. I think a good in-house NON-nerf and PUB Nerf would be to remove his passive cloak ability. This would lower his survivability early game for "out of position" players (pubstar assassins), but would change relatively little for in-house players. Edited December 9, 2013 by Sphynx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 its even more annoying when your hero is completely out ranged by the bubble, IMO it should be reduced in size just slightly as its really not fair that even if your working as a team you still cant help your team mate because you don't have enough range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oXide Posted December 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 im more wanting the radius reduction more then anything and any competent zera player won't catch his whole team in a bubble. and his E is easy to use. My whole balance change is really focused on the ih scene not pub. Reducing the radius like anarchy said would allow ranged heroes to actually help out the hero in the bubble instead of getting stuck just like they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) im more wanting the radius reduction more then anything and any competent zera player won't catch his whole team in a bubble. and his E is easy to use. My whole balance change is really focused on the ih scene not pub. Reducing the radius like anarchy said would allow ranged heroes to actually help out the hero in the bubble instead of getting stuck just like they are. its not even the fact that getting stuck in the bubble is the problem, its that your outside the bubble right on the edge and you cant even get enough range to place a spell on him or your ally & just end up walking inside the bubble instead Edited December 9, 2013 by ANARCHY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lios Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 im more wanting the radius reduction more then anything and any competent zera player won't catch his whole team in a bubble. and his E is easy to use. My whole balance change is really focused on the ih scene not pub. Reducing the radius like anarchy said would allow ranged heroes to actually help out the hero in the bubble instead of getting stuck just like they are. 1 - 18, you have failed. Good luck next time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTHER Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Definitely in favor of a slight reduction of the bubble radius but nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yamato Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Definitely in favor of a slight reduction of the bubble radius but nothing else. Wouldn't reducing the radius slightly, in some ways, be a buff to Zera? Unless you plan to buff him!? The less radius it has, the better chance your team won't get caught in it. Honestly though, Zera feels like a wildcard Hero just because his ultimate can be very difficult and risky to use. Edited December 11, 2013 by Yamato Yaldi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Wouldn't reducing the radius slightly, in some ways, be a buff to Zera? Unless you plan to buff him!? The less radius it has, the better chance your team won't get caught in it. Honestly though, Zera feels like a wildcard Hero just because his ultimate can be very difficult and risky to use. no because any decent zera will not bubble his own teammates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Wouldn't reducing the radius slightly, in some ways, be a buff to Zera? Unless you plan to buff him!? The less radius it has, the better chance your team won't get caught in it. Honestly though, Zera feels like a wildcard Hero just because his ultimate can be very difficult and risky to use. I would be in favor of buffing zeratul in some way, but I don't think this would be enough to make him a good/decent pick in inhouse, I think he would still be subpar and I'm not sure if it would help him that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indo Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 i think a dps carry should have 1 skill to initiate at the most, its kinda unfair that zera can planar and bubble people while 1 of this skills is more then anough for a carry. And I think that is the problem with him unlikeother carrys, he can shut down a target by jumping on him and then bubbling him and when a second one tries to help his m8 he planars him inside to and the stun will be longered by the bubble. Then he can save teammates with both bubble and planar to and use both of them for escaping. I think completly redisigning either planar/bubble or removing silence from it is the solution for the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Zeratul is already a weak hero because of his extremely high skill threshold, squishyness, low range, and the fact that other heroes can put out just as much cc with less risk. He also has a very weak laning phase and doesn't jungle very well (but it is the best place for him because he can at least survive in jungle). He needs his two powerful cc abilities to even keep him viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EterNity Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 There are still time to vote guys! Vote yes! They are only outnumbered us by 20 votes so far. We still can catch up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayMyName Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Zeratul is already a weak hero because of his extremely high skill threshold, squishyness, low range, and the fact that other heroes can put out just as much cc with less risk. He also has a very weak laning phase and doesn't jungle very well (but it is the best place for him because he can at least survive in jungle). He needs his two powerful cc abilities to even keep him viable. Hero is not weak or strong because skill cap/threshold but what the hero gives, bring to table, what are his options- true pros and cons. <- This is diffrence Btw its always funny how people stating that zera R is no brain no skill ability, when truly its one of highest skillshots in the game if You play competetive, good game. He have one of worst early game, not the best lategame (he isnt one of best hardcarries late, meele, lack of dmg compared to scaling tankiness of other heroes) for how much You need do invest into him. He have good midgame if fat, but many other heroes have good midgame if they are fat. Bubble is ok (with some lineups), but not amazing. Bubble doesnt bring any dmg by itself, isnt even full lockdown and its not high chance You will catch key targets or 3 enemy hereos in bubble vs teams that know how to play. Btw. amazing poll :) Edited December 12, 2013 by SayMyName Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lios Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 There are still time to vote guys! Vote yes! They are only outnumbered us by 20 votes so far. We still can catch up! Over - popped ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaldi Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I felt bad for the guy so I voted yes CoolNoob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Hero is not weak or strong because skill cap/threshold but what the hero gives, bring to table, what are his options- true pros and cons. <- This is diffrence Btw its always funny how people stating that zera R is no brain no skill ability, when truly its one of highest skillshots in the game if You play competetive, good game. He have one of worst early game, not the best lategame (he isnt one of best hardcarries late, meele, lack of dmg compared to scaling tankiness of other heroes) for how much You need do invest into him. He have good midgame if fat, but many other heroes have good midgame if they are fat. Bubble is ok (with some lineups), but not amazing. Bubble doesnt bring any dmg by itself, isnt even full lockdown and its not high chance You will catch key targets or 3 enemy hereos in bubble vs teams that know how to play. Btw. amazing poll :) I would normally agree with you upon the skillcap not affecting strong a hero is, but if there is a hero who has a very high skillcap but isn't as rewarding as other heroes with similar roles and a lower skillcap, then I think that the skillcap does make him worse, as it is easier to misplay/ get outplayed on a high skillcap hero than a low skillcap one. I feel that zeratul's roles ( can be played as initiator or carry) are done better by many heroes, and he has one of the highest skillcaps in the game to add to not being as good as other heroes. His initiation can just as easily get his own team killed as the other team if you don't execute correctly, and he is the only hero like that that I can think of currently, except perhaps if Maar uses ulti for a gank and the whole enemy team is there I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lios Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Get his own team killed This thing is not hard to do, I can kill you as my teammate anytime I want.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oXide Posted December 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 i guess this kinda got off what i intended. I dont think zera is op or up I just think he's a nuiscance and the suggestion on the radius decrease was so ranged heroes and casters could actually cast on him and he wont catch 3-4 enemy's in a bubble and them get steamrolled. and every ih that a zera has been in I've only seen 1 time that a zera really caused a problem for his team and that was when SpeedoGuy fed me a monsterkill and if the bubble would have been reduced 1. his team wouldnt have gotten caught in it 2. only 1 maybe 2 people from my team would have gotten caught in it giving both teams better chances at a teamfight instead of being stuck in zera's bubble the whole time. and if getting your own team killed is yalls main thing just like lios said you can get ur own team killed with many many heroes ( cow wall, dial micro throw and ect) I was hoping this thread would turn into a thread where there would be realistic suggestions given on how to change zera so he wasnt such a nuiscance but oh well lol. Can a mod please close this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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