MK Queen unix gara bio op comp

[FinalEnd]

Title says all game ends in 25 minutes or less.... pushers op

[Jaysi]

Can also probably push a tower down before creep even spawn.

[EterNity]

We, In House, community already noted the developers of this situation.

 

Though, a bit of resistance on the overall nerfs of what so called "pushers" in AoS as some developers do not want to follow a more traditional way of approach like DotA 2 or LoL.

 

"Pushers" is unique to AoS and because of that, it should be kept that way according to one developer.

 

However, a number of changes are going to be in future patches, as long as the other developers agree with Highdrafter, such as the MK aura giving only 50% to creeps (Both Highdrafter and me think it should be 0% but that got shut down rather quickly), and Queen's heals.

 

As far as Gara and Bio goes, I haven't hear anything about them besides the auto ban of the item SM on Gara.

 

Keep it in mind that "real" AoS game is played on a draft system with a balanced team.

 

A team will never get all those hero as the enemy team will notice the intentions and ban them prior.

 

However, in pub, we all agree with that anything can happen. The pub games ain't really being considered when balancing the game since it is "All-Picks" not "Drafts." Plus, public lobbies are more of "for fun" type of casual games and not very serious.

[Sphynx]

The pub games ain't really being considered when balancing the game since it is "All-Picks" not "Drafts." Plus, public lobbies are more of "for fun" type of casual games and not very serious.

 

To be completely fair.

 

Although Pub games mean "nothing" to the in-house community.. I think some facts need to be stated here:

 

1) The in-house community is TINY. Seriously.

2) I know most AGI or INT Burst carries are complained as being "OP" in pub games, because anyone who can get a lot of kills can snowball… But there are changes that could be made that would result in a "nerf" to a pub hero, but NOT a nerf to an in-house player. (something to affect their starting strength, but not really affect their mid/late game).

example: Zera Cloak means little in-house due to wards/team knowledge of scanners etc

In Pub games, Zera is extremely strong with that auto cloak. Almost no one gets wards/scanners to deal with it. It is fine on the ghost, because the ghost is support and not an assassin. Zera is a hero assassin that cloaks… Remove his cloak, and the noobs will do MUCH worse with him.. While in-house, he will mostly be unaffected

3) I think the creators should consider pub games when balancing just for the idea of player retention and overall enjoyment to the community.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Sphynx

[Ironsights]

AoE casters such as null can counter this.

Explosive Retrofit on any decent AA can help tremendously.

Push comps are a viable option, not over powered, and massive nerfs are NOT warranted.

[EterNity]

The In House community is tiny, yes, so does the NBA and MLB when you compare them to the total sum of players.

 

If Pub is ever considered for balancing, we may as well marge with Hero Attack since that map is all about the casual players.

 

Team pushes is too strong and will be nerfed on future patch and that's the fact I am stating. Like it or not, it is coming.

[GuZ]

Guys, this will never happen in IH, if it does, you pick cow, summers, grunty maybe nova or darpa plus vorpal or drake.. and you just wait or turtle in your tier 3.. once your darpa and grunty are feed enough!!.. it's over for them.. they are not heroes for late game.. ;) this mode I call "AOS tower defense". And also this shouldn't happen normally in IH you ban MK and Queen since one is the stronguer pusher and the other the best healer.

[John]

This shap gets tricky if you exchange one of the pushers with maa, as you won't have any time whatsoever to react on the pushes due to his ulti, and NO transport talent aren't going to save a tower as it will be melted down within seconds.

 

The laningphase is pretty much a no brain mode with this comp, and if they don't manage to get any towers early on, they sure will get it together with maar once he's lvl 6.

 

The downside is that they'll have to finisht the game somewhat quick, but usually they'll snowball due to all the towers and map controll gained.

 

Due to the huge map controll advantage, aeon and levi's are easy to get. Not to mention that you can just bait enemys out from tier3 towers to prevent a levi, and tp to a tier3 tower and melt it.

 

From a pub perspective, ur flobed if ur up against a premade doing this, epesically given the average skill lvl.

 

If ur up against this in an inhouse, go kill ur drafter, cause the game is going to be a boii even if you have good "antipushers"

[highdrater]

L2draft and coordinate vs push comp. all you can really do. The teleport was nerfed to only porting on siege creeps so map awareness can be very useful in deciding when someone can try to port and split push. Summers null maar kerrigan.. Pushers even counter pushers.. And even burst aoe like rancor nukes and cow wall toilet can counter pushing very easily. If a team picks Unix Gara you better get a counter push with teleport as well. Split pushing is a cheese but it's counterable. And please why is Zera and pub vs ih being brought up in this topic sphynx lol.

 

Edit: any comp that has both mk and queen in it would probably be considered an outdraft at the current state of the game.

Edited November 30, 2013 by highdrater

[mynhauzen]

Few months ago Rapha talked about this problem in the forums but you guys said that few items counter pushers. Riiight. :) dps doesnt counter pushers, cause by the time they get retro t1-t2 are gone and the game is almost over. 3-4 pushers means you can push all 3 lanes and you can kill them but still lose a tower. And income in aos is everything. Im still not sure why devs kept buffing lane pushers..

[Yaldi]

any comp that has both mk and queen in it would probably be considered an outdraft at the current state of the game.

 

Well if this is the case that getting 2 heroes wins any draft. Maybe the guy in charge of balancing shiuld do something about it

 

[highdrater]

Edit: trying not to swear at you on the forums. Already known that there is imbalance with the heroes..Kind of implied in the previous post. Working on the balance of the two, k babe?

Edited November 30, 2013 by highdrater

[WhaleTits]

Edit: trying not to swear at you on the forums.

 

o.o what happened to the carrrrl we all know and love....

[Yaldi]

Edit: trying not to swear at you on the forums. Already known that there is imbalance with the heroes..Kind of implied in the previous post. Working on the balance of the two, k babe?

 

Thanks sweetie

[EterNity]

All the sudden, there are flowers and rainbows all over this thread. <3

[FinalEnd]

This shap gets tricky if you exchange one of the pushers with maa, as you won't have any time whatsoever to react on the pushes due to his ulti, and NO transport talent aren't going to save a tower as it will be melted down within seconds.

 

The laningphase is pretty much a no brain mode with this comp, and if they don't manage to get any towers early on, they sure will get it together with maar once he's lvl 6.

 

The downside is that they'll have to finisht the game somewhat quick, but usually they'll snowball due to all the towers and map controll gained.

 

Due to the huge map controll advantage, aeon and levi's are easy to get. Not to mention that you can just bait enemys out from tier3 towers to prevent a levi, and tp to a tier3 tower and melt it.

 

I agree with everything you said, I set this up to counter most of the arguments that i knew would be stated, "like pick anitpushers" or ban those hero's". But you spilled the beans early :p... Maar is op with any pusher. For all he needs to do is ultra on the spawning creep from base and tp on to the creep that are already in the lane with a pusher, and that tower is gone no ifs and or buts about it. Someone go test this and see how fast you can take down the tier 3 tower. Just with basic in lane farming, No mineral boost no nothing.............. Last point you can not ban all the pushers every game and expect your team not to get out drafted. Can you?

 

Edit: trying not to swear at you on the forums. Already known that there is imbalance with the heroes..Kind of implied in the previous post. Working on the balance of the two, k babe?

 

Just make an item that somewhat counters them. Like an item that reduces spell and physical resist to non-heroic units or something

[Hogwarts]

Pushers are extremely strong. The problem is besides melting towers they off to much damage and cc / utility in team fights. Iv also won several games with pure push comps. Iv lost some too. But Iv won more then i have lost.

 

Add in a Maar as John said its almost impossible to lose.

[WhitetrasH]

@Eternity - maybe i misundersood you but to the best of my knowledge a lane pusher or "pushers" is not a unique machanic only to AoS, i believe there are a few of pushers in dota, not to sure about lol but as for dota there's furion (natures prophet), Dark seer, brood mother, death prophet, kotl (keeper of the light) & to a lesser extent drow ranger (due to her passive E which buffs creeps too) & luna (due to her bouncing glaives, similar to kerrigan) too, which are both dps/carries. The differense between the 2 games is that in dota you're able to actually stop/couner them with a bit of teamwork... even in pubs.

 

@sphynx - balancing for pubs will never happen, stop asking for it... plain & simple. you migh play pubs, the majority of the players might play pubs... but to think that balance in pubs is possible is a pipe dream. Other moba titles might be more popular but they too don't balance for pubs... to give you an example, in dota warlock is flobing powerful in pubs to the point of broken but is most often to none looked over in competiive play, same with sniper, strong in pubs but very seldom even looked at in competiive play. Balance in pubs is more a learn to play problem than a balancing problem.

 

Edit - My T key on the keyboard is buggered... :( forgive

Edited December 1, 2013 by WhitetrasH

[Jaysi]

Do you think maybe we should not allow Maar to teleport creep with ultimate? I know it makes the game less interesting, but I don't see any fairness in the ability to instantly take a tower like that.

 

Also, in Highdrater's defense, he hasn't been in charge of balance that long. He's gotten like what, one patch in? Have to think how long some of these pushers have been the way they are. He has started to nerf them.

[Ironsights]

it would seem pretty obvious the imbalance lies with Maar, not with the pushers

 

you can also maar-port blindly into a base with a dps or two, or hell the whole team, and just auto win.

 

Maar-porting should definately require vision, at least.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Ironsights

[Adversary]

As we all know pushers are extremely strong. Maar might be a little strong as well due to his amount of CC/DMG/Healing/Backdooring ability.

So here's what I propose to fix the problem:

 

Maar:

• Add a sound that is audible to everyone in the game when Maar is teleporting with his ulti. This can warn teams to fall back or be careful of a incoming gank.
  

OR

• Make Maar visible for enemy team when he is using his ultimate teleport.
  

Both of these will make it so enemy teams have a chance to get into position to counter the backdoor or possible gank.

 

Queen:

• Ultralisk should not be able to hit the tower or should get a damage reduction. I've seen the Ultra go to town on the tower and do far more damage than any hero can do...
  

 

Marine King:

• His ulti (pet) should not be able to hit the tower or get a damage reduction. As you know the firebat increases dmg (correct me if I'm wrong) on the target it's attacking, and it does a shap load of dmg.
  

 

Garamond:

• His towers should not be able to hit tower or again... get a damage reduction. He has his SCV's going to work for him, and 2 towers? Too much pushing power.
  

Edited December 1, 2013 by Adversary

[MOTHER]

Maar-porting should definately require vision, at least.

 

The fact that it still doesn't is the biggest WTF I have since I started playing a year ago. Such a skill would be OP in ANY MOBA. It needs to require vision.

[Yaldi]

@Eternity - maybe i misundersood you but to the best of my knowledge a lane pusher or "pushers" is not a unique machanic only to AoS, i believe there are a few of pushers in dota, not to sure about lol but as for dota there's furion (natures prophet), Dark seer, brood mother, death prophet, kotl (keeper of the light) & to a lesser extent drow ranger (due to her passive E which buffs creeps too) & luna (due to her bouncing glaives, similar to kerrigan) too, which are both dps/carries. The differense between the 2 games is that in dota you're able to actually stop/couner them with a bit of teamwork... even in pubs.

 

A few you forgot: Juggernaut, enchantress, chen, enigma. Ss, dk, pugna, sylla bear

[WhitetrasH]

i only menioned a few off the bat... & how i could forget pugna is beyond me but anyway, the point's been made.

[Lios]

A few you forgot: Juggernaut, enchantress, chen, enigma. Ss, dk, pugna, sylla bear

 

- Slark, Anti Mage, Phantom Lancer, Riki, Venomancer, Zeus, Clinkz, Reaver, Death Prophet, Night Stalker.... Anything with "escape mechanism" and damaging tower real hard can push

 

The fact that it still doesn't is the biggest WTF I have since I started playing a year ago. Such a skill would be OP in ANY MOBA. It needs to require vision.

 

Nature Prophet : Shut the flob up

Edited December 1, 2013 by Lios