[Chuck.TBone v1.150] Bursting pubs with toilets

[Straighter]

Chuck.Tbone

 

 

 

 

 

Introduction:

After reading a guide how to play cow about 1 month ago, i played and learned him. Reading that guide again i thought there is so much more to say about him, thats why ive decided to write my first post here.... (dont be too hard to me if some things are wrong, i have almost no IH experience)

Chuck is a tanky burst caster that can take take out groups of enemies with a well placed combo. If played well he offers great mobility, cc and instant damage to your team. While he can support any hero at any time due to his global ultimate, offering burst damage and healing at the same time he can still fullfill as 2nd role as tank or dps output.

 

 

Talents:

 

Might (+15 weapon damage)

Fitness (+180 health)

Integrity (+6 armor)

Prodigy (+12% cooldown reduction)

Swiftness (+6% movement speed)

Wealth (+200 starting minerals)

 

It is also possible to take Youth (+200 maximum energy) instead of Integrity (+6 armor)/Prodigy (+12% cooldown reduction) but i rather like to take the +14% physical resist instead of 200 energy, because i usually have enough mana thanks to ultimate/ihan/pots.

 

 

Skill build:

There are different possibilities how cows skills can be played but most of the time you should go Q->W->Q->E and max Q followed by E, that way you have a good anti push potential and you can take fights with creeps around/ farm better (compared to max W before E).

It is also possible to skill W and E earlier, the idea behind this is to farm better because of the lower cooldown/manacost. But in that case u would not have a good damage output vs other heroes.

 

Item build:

Start with lost treasure and farm your way up to power stone into ihan. You can either get flare gun or dial as your next item, flare will add some burst damage dial adds mobility and his cc. I dont have good experience with rushing sunflare because it is kinda weak that early game and only helps vs one opponent, i would rather rush gravity if u want to rush a "big" item. Nitrogen gives some more health but its unique doesnt help that much because of his burst style.Far more important is Yamato in my opinion since it give him +25% spell damage/8 seconds, what really fits his burst style If u need to be more tanky u should consider buying carapace that will also add some weapon damage.

 

Final item list:

[+ Ihan stacks]

 

Abilities:

Q: a good damage source with cc, fully charged you create a V-wall.

W: allows you to get clips for low mana/low cooldown, its also your source of mobility (with 2 clips).

E: more damage while fighting creeps/ enemies near creeps/group of enemies.

R: global ultimate allows to do much burst damage in a medium area, also enables to support teammates with its regenration

 

Early game:

His main abilities early is his wall/ V-wall in order to do spell damage and trap enemies. As always try to last hit as best as u can.... and another important aspect early is his "consume 1 Capacitive Clip charge" ability to do +125% weapon damage, which is quite a lot to harass other heroes or last hit creeps. That ability also allows to play him very very strong early as dps hero.

 

Mid game:

Support your team and use offensive combos to do as much burst damage as u can. After u did one combo u should usuall pull back until your ultimate is ready again. As long as u didnt fail early game u should survive nearly everytime long enough to return to safety without dying. In teamfights you are usually behind the tank, ready to run in and use your abilities, after thats done there is not much you can do.

You can also try to flank the enemies in order to attack the squishy casters.

 

Late game:

Your combo is getting longer late game, because u have to use Items too, usually i always try to maintain 2 clips while being alone in order to be able to escape vs fast carrys.

While being in a team there isnt much difference to mid game.

 

General notes:

- its important to always know how many clips you have

- always try to use your ulti with 2 clips otherwise your cooldown is too long. (you should only use your ulti without ´2 clips when u have a safe kill/ u really need it)

- your ulti can kill opponents with low health anywhere on the map (so even if theyre "safe" near a tower).

- try to kill squishy opponents

-if you recall/respawn the first thing u should do is to use your ultimate if a teammate needs the health+mana regenration

-with 2clips u can use your ulti on creeps because the cooldown isnt that big

-usually i only use V-wall vs firebat camps or if i can trap one enemy

- in "dangerous" positions: always try to maintain 2 clips

-when the game starts you should use fill your clips and "consome clip"-charge in your base

-you can determine the degree between your two walls if u cast a V-wall, trough aiming near cow or further away

 

Combos:

In a "safe" situation:

a) 0 clips: W in -> Q -> ulti -> heal/back off

b) 1 clip : " consume 1 Capacitive Clip charge" then a)

c) 1clip: Q ->ulti -> heal/back off

d) 2clips: W-> (charge into single squishy enemies) -> Q -> use clip/ulti(if have a safe kill)

 

If u are in a "dangerous" position (for example: players are mia/ss or/and u attack an enemy tower) -> always try to maintain 2 clips to be able to W out of danger)

e) (if u want to use Q) 2clips: " consume 1 Capacitive Clip charge" -> Q -> (in danger) W

f) (if u want to use ulti) 2clips: ulti -> q -> w (!still 9 seconds cooldown until u can use W again!)

 

2nd role:

As mentionend cow can also be played with a 2 role: either more tanky or with more dps.

 

If your team needs you to be more tanky get carapace earlier, its possible to follow that up with DST/whats needed.

 

When u want to play with a higher dps, u should start with a soul engine and Veteran (+1,5 levels)+Fury (+15% weapon speed)and at least 2 pots, the "consume one clip" ability allows you to last hit very very easy, and allows u to have a huge damage output early game compared to other heroes.

I dont have much experience what to do next but i would recommend Energy Saber and Cerebro.

 

Replays:

http://drop.sc/366392

(pub,was trying some different things and was pretty easy but still at least an impression how to play tbone)

 

GL&HF

 

Hope u enjoy your stay, would like to have some feedback.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Straighter

[Mus]

This is a very nice guide for a first time post.

 

I disagree with the skill build. Personally I am of the opinion that E should be maxed along with Q, with just one point in W. E takes priority due to the farming potential it provides, and it helps cow fulfill one very important role which is pushing/counter-pushing lanes from a distance with his ultimate.

 

In pubs it is very easy to go mid during the mid-game, and time your ultimate for when the enemy pubstars advance with their creep wave. Maxing out E definitely pays off here.

 

Also, in pubs I tend to go Treasure into Edge. By staying in the back and letting my team mates go in first (and die) I can survive quite easily, and get easy kills. Rushing the Edge makes me snowball, after that I pick up Ihan and sometimes the HP component of Nitrogen (complete this item later) if I need extra HP at this stage.

 

Your item choices are pretty good. I would also consider Cerebro and Star's Fury. It's not good to rigidly stick to one particular build. There might be games where you don't need the Carapace at all, so why bother buying it? Having multiple items on your list to choose from increases your versatility.

[Moo]

I agree with Mus, nice guide. Another reason for maxing E along with Q is that it keeps mana costs lower so you won't run out of mana very often.

[Straighter]

This is a very nice guide for a first time post.

thank you :)

 

I disagree with the skill build. Personally I am of the opinion that E should be maxed along with Q, with just one point in W. E takes priority due to the farming potential it provides, and it helps cow fulfill one very important role which is pushing/counter-pushing lanes from a distance with his ultimate.

I recommended to max Q first then E while having one point in W. Thats pretty much the same u wrote but i dont agree with E before Q because E only helps if creeps/multiple enemies are around and isnt strong vs single targets.

 

In pubs it is very easy to go mid during the mid-game, and time your ultimate for when the enemy pubstars advance with their creep wave. Maxing out E definitely pays off here.

If u max out E u have to hit your opponents always with 4-5 enemies to pay off. And good opponents wont let u do that, in pubs that should be doable

 

Also, in pubs I tend to go Treasure into Edge. By staying in the back and letting my team mates go in first (and die) I can survive quite easily, and get easy kills. Rushing the Edge makes me snowball, after that I pick up Ihan and sometimes the HP component of Nitrogen (complete this item later) if I need extra HP at this stage.

well ihan gives cow what he needs health energy and regeneration, if u play gravity first u cant take damage or have to use ultimate to heal yourself all the time, i think crystal is at least vs good opponents the better choice.

 

Your item choices are pretty good. I would also consider Cerebro and Star's Fury. It's not good to rigidly stick to one particular build. There might be games where you don't need the Carapace at all, so why bother buying it? Having multiple items on your list to choose from increases your versatility.

well if u play dps i think stars fury/cerebro/energy saber seems to work, but i they dont really support a burst role as much as others would do, i think its better to either go burst caster or dps. Carapace is to get more hp and some strength late game, if u are fine without that u can ofc add other items instead.

[ginosaji]

Yea, I prefer to replace Nitro with DST and usually go Star's Fury over Sunflare, but that's dependent on team's need. Star's will proc for like 600 while sunflare does around 1100.

[ANARCHY]

flare is a great first item its so cheap, even if you decide not to keep it in your final build

 

i also dont think you have to rush grav edge;

i find getting a movement speed item much more effective as cows walls early game basically ensures death for any hero out of posistion

 

 

here is a nice replay of me having some fun as movement speed cow in a pub, i know its not as viable in IH as there will be more spell resist on heroes so you would need to balance the build differently but movement speed is definetly worthwhile

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gd0888feb20c7e55b999421007b4b30128f83b19b7

[Moo]

flare is a great first item its so cheap, even if you decide not to keep it in your final build

 

i also dont think you have to rush grav edge;

i find getting a movement speed item much more effective as cows walls early game basically ensures death for any hero out of posistion

 

 

here is a nice replay of me having some fun as movement speed cow in a pub, i know its not as viable in IH as there will be more spell resist on heroes so you would need to balance the build differently but movement speed is definetly worthwhile

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gd0888feb20c7e55b999421007b4b30128f83b19b7

I don't think you should rush movespeed on cow, but lion's bane is very good as one of your last items IMO.

 

Lions bane*

Edited November 28, 2013 by Moo

[ANARCHY]

I don't think you should rush movespeed on cow, but lion's bane is very good as one of your last items IMO.

 

Lions bane*

a successful initiation gives at least 50% more chance of a kill then an equivalent amount of money spent on int

think of it this way;

if boros, micro or drake initiate you how many seconds are you in the crap for? 2-3?

if cow initiated your stuck for a good 5+ seconds while your whole team wails on them

[Moo]

 

a successful initiation gives at least 50% more chance of a kill then an equivalent amount of money spent on int

think of it this way;

if boros, micro or drake initiate you how many seconds are you in the crap for? 2-3?

if cow initiated your stuck for a good 5+ seconds while your whole team wails on them

I wouldn't get movespeed to do that though, I would just buy impact dial, which is more versatile than movespeed, almost as cheap, and gives good stats for cow, tankiness and some int.

[Straighter]

flare is a great first item its so cheap, even if you decide not to keep it in your final build

 

i also dont think you have to rush grav edge;

i find getting a movement speed item much more effective as cows walls early game basically ensures death for any hero out of posistion

 

 

here is a nice replay of me having some fun as movement speed cow in a pub, i know its not as viable in IH as there will be more spell resist on heroes so you would need to balance the build differently but movement speed is definetly worthwhile

http://www.fileconvo...4b30128f83b19b7

 

I dont like to get flare gun as first item, it does add only a little burst damage that early, i would nearly always take power stone first. Iadded dial in the guide it really helps early, its not needed because u have a good source of mobility with 2clip-W but its still really helpfull in many situations e.g if u can trap enemy heroes.

[Lios]

Flare gun on cow is just not good, unless health talents get nerf or your opponent don't use it...

[hbogyt]

Bursting with toilets? I usually burst toilets with my diarrhea.

[TaxHaven]

Bursting with toilets? I usually burst toilets with my diarrhea.

 

Too far dude...

 

Sunflare is great on cow, it adds amazing burst on him

[Mus]

Straighter:

 

You misunderstand the whole purpose of Cow. His role is to push and counter-push lanes, therefore maxing E first is key. The damage he does to a single target with Q is largely irrelevant, and quite frankly it's nowhere near as important as the lane pushing.

 

When it comes to team fights Cow's role is to hit as many targets as he can with his ultimate, or a single high profile target. Usually you will have a good team composition to help Cow land the toilet on more than one target. His Q is mainly used for utility, not damage. This is another reason why maxing Q is not a good idea.

[Lios]

Straighter:

 

You misunderstand the whole purpose of Cow. His role is to push and counter-push lanes, therefore maxing E first is key. The damage he does to a single target with Q is largely irrelevant, and quite frankly it's nowhere near as important as the lane pushing.

 

When it comes to team fights Cow's role is to hit as many targets as he can with his ultimate, or a single high profile target. Usually you will have a good team composition to help Cow land the toilet on more than one target. His Q is mainly used for utility, not damage. This is another reason why maxing Q is not a good idea.

 

Isn't Q and W cd get reduce as you level them up ? 2 passive stack + W = huge mobility... Plus the topic name is "Bursting pubs with toilet", not IH stuff....

[Mus]

Oh well if it's for pubs then don't bother reading anything then, because anything goes in pubs.

 

Pubstars don't perform well in inhouse games unless they use inhouse builds. Eventually people will have to start reading a real build for Cow if they ever want to play him in an inhouse.

[Straighter]

Straighter:

 

You misunderstand the whole purpose of Cow. His role is to push and counter-push lanes, therefore maxing E first is key. The damage he does to a single target with Q is largely irrelevant, and quite frankly it's nowhere near as important as the lane pushing.

 

When it comes to team fights Cow's role is to hit as many targets as he can with his ultimate, or a single high profile target. Usually you will have a good team composition to help Cow land the toilet on more than one target. His Q is mainly used for utility, not damage. This is another reason why maxing Q is not a good idea.

 

I didnt missunderstand cow, his role is to counter push, not push, actually he's not a good pusher he has no physical output and no skills that would help to take down towers faster.

So lets do the math, if u play him the way i recommend u start have all 3 skills at level 4 anyway so we'll start after that.If u level q first u add +50 spell damage per level to all enemies u hit with your q, if u level E u add +10 damage to nearby enemies (i dont know the exact range but i dont think that is too high). So if u level Q first u have a consistent +50 spell damage/level, if u level E u need to hit at least 5 enemies that are close to each other to be worth it, and i dont think u can hit more than 5 enemies in a teamfight without creeps. Q is more relieable than E. I might be wrong if the echo damage has a high range but i havent tested that yet ... but even if im wrong i dont see why u should level E first, the best advantage would be slightly more spell damage to creeps. The only real reason to level E first would maybe be if i would lane vs unix/mk or maybe bio.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Straighter

[Mus]

Cow's role in team fights is to deal huge damage with his ultimate, and maxing E is the only way to increase the damage from his ultimate. You do not need creeps to be around, but they do help of course. Hitting 3 enemies with the ultimate and having E maxed is a lot better than having Q maxed. I don't think you will find any good Cow player who will max Q over E in a competitive scene.

 

Cow is not supposed to do huge amounts of damage with his Q wall, he is supposed to use that for utility. Utility means trapping enemies and restricting movement.

 

Maxing E allows Cow to clear creep waves quickly with his Q R combo, this is can be used to counter-push an advanced enemy creep wave, or it can be used to push your own creep waves towards a tower. The creeps will deal damage to the tower, not Cow himself. In fact Cow can push two lanes at once, he can use Q W in the lane that he is in and use R to push a different lane. E being maxed out first is what you need in order to do this.

 

 

Basically I cannot see any situation where anyone who has any skill with Cow would want to max Q over E.

[Straighter]

Hitting 3 enemies that are really close to each other with R (what is a good hit) will result in doin a maximum of +30 spell damage to each of them, makes a maximum of 90 per R. Using Q and also trapping enemies(what will usually also hit them) with q results in +50 spell damage to each target u hit. Im havent played IH often as i said but i cant imagine u wont use your Q in teamfights IH? and if u cant trap and enemy, which is quiet often if the fight starts u will use your Q just for doing damage, what would mean that if u hit 2 enemies with Q would be enough to do +100 spell damage/level. Does anyone know how far the echo hits? because if its only as close as i think it is, it will not be worth it, only if your enemies walk around realla clumped up.

[Mus]

The lane pushing is more important than the extra damage in team fights.

[Straighter]

If u level Q first u have : +50 spell damage/level/creep

-2s cooldown

 

If u would level E first u have: +10 "echo" damage to nearby enemies

 

if u would always hit about 5 creeps with the echo of your Q u would do about +100 total spell damage/level of E with Q every 22seconds + around 60-70 spell damage to creeps if u use your ulti every 40 seconds

with Q u would be able to use Q more often and do around +250 total spell damage/level if u hit 5 creeps with your wall, and u would have be at least even in teamfights.

 

I mean i might have made a mistake but i cant understand the logic of levelin E first

[Mus]

I'm out of this thread.

 

Cannot be bothered to repeat my arguments over and over and over again.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Mus

[Straighter]

I'm out of this thread.

 

Cannot be bothered to repeat my arguments over and over and over again.

 

U said its more important to do more damage in lane? yea and u cant explain how he shall do more damage in lane with maxing E first. most ppl just say stuff like that if they dont know an answer and arent men enough to say the truth. if u have an arguement how he shall do more damage with maxing E first, fine then tell me.

i may seem a little bit rough but im kinda sick of ppl in pubs that argue the same way, u cant talk with such ppl. all they say is that everything they dont say is trash nothin else

Edited December 6, 2013 by Straighter

[Moo]

The reason you don't max Q first, besides all the points Mus brought up, is that cow is extremely mana hungry, and E costs no mana, whereas maxing Q first will make you run out of mana in a few spell casts, which in turn means your wave clear will be lower. Also, maxing E gives damage on your W and R as well as Q, and W is very good at clearing waves when you max E first, and you can't do that if you max Q first, since W will deal very low damage.

[Lios]

The reason you don't max Q first, besides all the points Mus brought up, is that cow is extremely mana hungry, and E costs no mana, whereas maxing Q first will make you run out of mana in a few spell casts, which in turn means your wave clear will be lower. Also, maxing E gives damage on your W and R as well as Q, and W is very good at clearing waves when you max E first, and you can't do that if you max Q first, since W will deal very low damage.

 

That's why straight rush ihan after treasure.... And his toilet have low cd if used with 2 stack, if that's the case then use your spell smart, if u cant do that then buy mana consumable... You CAN'T run out of mana if you go for the right talent.