Concerns about Tassadar's W

[Frozensoul]

Before the great patch that changed all the items Tassadar's W was a very strong ability.

 

But now his role of Dps is prevailing on the role of support. You might say that is the clone that has to use it but doing so would lose a great part of his Dps.

 

So my concern is: his W is still a relevant skill or it become quite useless?

[Lios]

Before the great patch that changed all the items Tassadar's W was a very strong ability.

 

But now his role of Dps is prevailing on the role of support. You might say that is the clone that has to use it but doing so would lose a great part of his Dps.

 

So my concern is: his W is still a relevant skill or it become quite useless?

 

That is a flobing 8s 48% or so slow right there.... And you can jungle with that huge heals easily... After you proc all your beast item with your q go for a double w and let your teammate get the kill or just ks it with your clone w and u aa constanly

[Moo]

 

 

That is a flobing 8s 48% or so slow right there.... And you can jungle with that huge heals easily... After you proc all your beast item with your q go for a double w and let your teammate get the kill or just ks it with your clone w and u aa constanly

The heal isn't that huge, but he can obviously still jungle, just like a ton of the other heroes.

[Lios]

The heal isn't that huge, but he can obviously still jungle, just like a ton of the other heroes.

 

A tons of hero can't jungle without machete and hatchet genius, tass don't need them because he have clone and heal ( Not as effective )

[Moo]

 

 

A tons of hero can't jungle without machete and hatchet genius, tass don't need them because he have clone and heal ( Not as effective )

Tassadar jungle will still have to get machette genius, since the heal doesn't heal enough to jungle effectively until it has some levels, and its cooldown is a bit longer than the channel so you won't be healing constantly.

[ginosaji]

On the secondary dispute of whether or not to get a machete on Tass jungle... Yes, you need it. It turns out to be economically more efficient to invest in the machete by the speed at which you are enabled to jungle.

 

To the primary point of the discussion: Tass W

 

Back before the items patch, ability proced item effects (BHM, Star's, Cerebro, Atom Smasher) were limited to Star's and BHM. BHM wasn't as viable because you need to build weapon damage for it to be successful and Tass is best built INT. Star's fury wasn't as strong and was more expensive, so it wasn't economically viable to go INT Tass. As a result, people went Tanky/initiator/spell DPS on him with items like Pyre, sliptide, Nitrogen, Organic, etc. With the new ability proc'ed items like (star's, Cerebro in particular) becoming much more powerful and for a cheaper price, it became very viable to go INT/ ability proced item builds on tass. The main reason for this is because he can proc those powerful items twice as effectively as any other hero with his clone. So... he became much, much stronger. His clone's health got nerfed by 50% to compansate for how powerful he'd become. Now people don't go Tank/initiator/utility/spell dps tass, they go INT burst Tass. That makes it much less likely for you to use your W, as you spend much less time near the enemy, since your survivability is low.

 

Hence, no one uses his W.

[Frozensoul]

I play with Quiddich's built: Tank/int. I can stay near the enemy quite long but the "proced attack" is better than use W, plus it's damage/heal is relatively low

[ginosaji]

I play with Quiddich's built: Tank/int. I can stay near the enemy quite long but the "proced attack" is better than use W, plus it's damage/heal is relatively low

 

He's built tankier than many INT heroes, but I wouldn't consider him all that tanky. As you said, there's no reason to try and use W when you have a swipe/proc you could be using. If you need the slow, just buy an atom smasher.

[Frozensoul]

He's built tankier than many INT heroes, but I wouldn't consider him all that tanky. As you said, there's no reason to try and use W when you have a swipe/proc you could be using. If you need the slow, just buy an atom smasher.

 

the built have atom smasher yet, it was only a precisation.

 

However instead of complain about the jungler's items and just say these ability is useless right now, some ideas for fix the problem?

[ginosaji]

the built have atom smasher yet, it was only a precisation.

 

However instead of complain about the jungler's items and just say these ability is useless right now, some ideas for fix the problem?

 

To be entirely honest I want his Q not to proc item effects anymore, and return his clone health to what it used to be (double what it is now). I also want an increase to the teather range on his pull by 1-2 units, as it's so short right now.

 

His W is a very strong ability in team fights, especially with two of them... it doesn't need to be changed. Tass used to be highly micro intensive and fun to play. Now all he is melee version of an anti-AA burster. He may as well be an INT hero, because that's what his role is right now.

[Jaysi]

Lol, machete and a hatchet to jungle... I see what Ecko did there...

 

In late game could you pick up atom smasher, make your clone, drop atom and pick up stars and then your current clone would proc atom and you would proc stars? Lol.

 

Also, I agree with you Gino. I enjoyed Tass more when he was a tank initiator/medium DPS than just an int no skill item procing hero.

[Hogwarts]

Lol, machete and a hatchet to jungle... I see what Ecko did there...

 

In late game could you pick up atom smasher, make your clone, drop atom and pick up stars and then your current clone would proc atom and you would proc stars? Lol.

 

Also, I agree with you Gino. I enjoyed Tass more when he was a tank initiator/medium DPS than just an int no skill item procing hero.

 

almost every one feels this way.

 

To be honest i have never heard any one say. Ohh man I love this new DPS Tass its just better!

 

Tass was a ridiculous hard hero to play with a high skill cap. That would solo the long lane and be used as tank initiator.

 

Now any baddie can play tass and carry with it. All they need to do is that that Epic Marine King mechanic. Box click and A move.

 

Just another instance where the game has been "dumbed" down

[Soundwave]

I think this ability is very underpowered. Simply because heal is low damage is low, and it is almost useless in teamfights. Usually if an enemy tries to escape he wont be standing in your face, so the slow only affect him for a very short time.

[Frozensoul]

We could remove the channel and heal/damage for let Tassadar make other actions, like attack the target; but it would be probably op

[ginosaji]

We could remove the channel and heal/damage for let Tassadar make other actions, like attack the target; but it would be probably op

 

The ability is fine and I like the way it works. The hero itself has been dumbed down because of items.

[TaxHaven]

The hero got nerved so much it's gay

 

Nerfed* god damn auto correct

Edited December 5, 2013 by TaxHaven

[ANARCHY]

i agree this whole saga about making a battle mage class has really ruined and dumbed down the game lately, please give us old tass back & for goodness sake nerf atom smasher while your at it

[Rogue]

On the secondary dispute of whether or not to get a machete on Tass jungle... Yes, you need it. It turns out to be economically more efficient to invest in the machete by the speed at which you are enabled to jungle.

 

To the primary point of the discussion: Tass W

 

Back before the items patch, ability proced item effects (BHM, Star's, Cerebro, Atom Smasher) were limited to Star's and BHM. BHM wasn't as viable because you need to build weapon damage for it to be successful and Tass is best built INT. Star's fury wasn't as strong and was more expensive, so it wasn't economically viable to go INT Tass. As a result, people went Tanky/initiator/spell DPS on him with items like Pyre, sliptide, Nitrogen, Organic, etc. With the new ability proc'ed items like (star's, Cerebro in particular) becoming much more powerful and for a cheaper price, it became very viable to go INT/ ability proced item builds on tass. The main reason for this is because he can proc those powerful items twice as effectively as any other hero with his clone. So... he became much, much stronger. His clone's health got nerfed by 50% to compansate for how powerful he'd become. Now people don't go Tank/initiator/utility/spell dps tass, they go INT burst Tass. That makes it much less likely for you to use your W, as you spend much less time near the enemy, since your survivability is low.

 

Hence, no one uses his W.

 

Oh damn we got an economics major in here : "economically more efficient"

 

I play with Quiddich's built: Tank/int. I can stay near the enemy quite long but the "proced attack" is better than use W, plus it's damage/heal is relatively low

 

Just out of interest, what is quidditch's build?

[Hogwarts]

Oh damn we got an economics major in here : "economically more efficient"

 

 

 

Just out of interest, what is quidditch's build?

 

you can find another tass thread here

 

if im ahead early in the lane phase this is how i build tass and i normally do extremely well in inhouses.

 

1. lost treasure

2. machete

3. lighting rod

4. ocelots revolver

5. turn ocelots into atom smasher

6. super heated mantle

7. nitrogen

8. sell treasure build gravity edge

9. sell machete for life tech

10. finish cebero from lighting rod

11. sell atom smasher and buy stars fury.

 

 

this gives you a crap ton of damage and makes you tanky as hell

 

But as every game has different variables you have to build reactive. this is just a loose guide.

 

I also wana note i have been skipping wealth and going a dif talent build

 

2/2/2 now

 

So i get wep dmg , speed, health, armor, movespeed, flat mana

 

Lost treasure was nerfed its not as great of a lane sustain item any more buy it or don't, shouldn't make much of a difference but i start with Hunters hatchet and the quantum spade. the 10 wep dmg item. and a health pot

 

then on my first port back i buy machete, and the quantum spade builds into ocelots. Just sell the hatchet when ever.

[ginosaji]

i agree this whole saga about making a battle mage class has really ruined and dumbed down the game lately, please give us old tass back & for goodness sake nerf atom smasher while your at it

 

Atom smasher is fine I think. Battle mage is a really fun way to play and has added an interesting dynamic to the game imo. The issue is Tass being able to double proc so easily. Remove the ability for his swipe to proc ability items, restor his clone's HP to where it was and he's fine.

 

 

Oh damn we got an economics major in here : "economically more efficient"

 

 

Makes sense in that aspect... Jungling neautrals is about math. You usually need an item or two to jungle well. What I meant in that case, what I meant was that the item will pay for itself and then some if you consider the increased speed at which you will be able to jungle because of it.

[Frozensoul]

Ok i will start a new post for the " Jungler's items issue " later -.-''

 

 

 

Now, returning to the original intention of the post....

 

 

 

Tassadar's Q is a skill designed to proc items (and slow the proc to # attack items like Stun Baton in the old version), even if deal decent damage with a INT built, removing the proc on the ability give me the feeling like using the Enterprise's engine for a city-car. Plus i like his battle-mage stile (don't hate me for this).

 

Another problem could be in his skill set: he have 2 carry abilities and 2 support abilities.

[XmAgic]

First,sorry for my poor English...I'm a Tassadar user from China.

I'm afraid there are tooooo many active equipments which can NOT enabled by the clone.

Even worse,U have little choice in the late game cuz most expensive equipments are active one.

Equipments with just unique effects are always powerless.

So,please add some powerful unique equipments,or turn some active effect into unique.

Great thanks.

[Jaysi]

First,sorry for my poor English...I'm a Tassadar user from China.

I'm afraid there are tooooo many active equipments which can NOT enabled by the clone.

Even worse,U have little choice in the late game cuz most expensive equipments are active one.

Equipments with just unique effects are always powerless.

So,please add some powerful unique equipments,or turn some active effect into unique.

Great thanks.

 

I disagree. The fact that he has a clone that does 100% damage and most non-actives is enough. He doesn't need the high level active items to do well at all.

 

There's what, Galactic Defender and Timesplitter that you might get? His E is already a mini Galactic by the time you build Int. You don't need Timesplitter if you get Atom Smasher and Taser(silence and 80% slow is equivalent to stun if not better). He doesn't need 4 stuns(if clone could activate TS).

Edited December 10, 2013 by Jaysi

[KDawgKilla]

almost every one feels this way.

 

To be honest i have never heard any one say. Ohh man I love this new DPS Tass its just better!

 

Tass was a ridiculous hard hero to play with a high skill cap. That would solo the long lane and be used as tank initiator.

 

Now any baddie can play tass and carry with it. All they need to do is that that Epic Marine King mechanic. Box click and A move.

 

Just another instance where the game has been "dumbed" down

 

actually the more effective way to attack with tass and MK is to press 3 then A click

[XmAgic]

I disagree. The fact that he has a clone that does 100% damage and most non-actives is enough. He doesn't need the high level active items to do well at all.

 

There's what, Galactic Defender and Timesplitter that you might get? His E is already a mini Galactic by the time you build Int. You don't need Timesplitter if you get Atom Smasher and Taser(silence and 80% slow is equivalent to stun if not better). He doesn't need 4 stuns(if clone could activate TS).

 

Tassadar are weak when facing STR heroes.

Could we get the old version's stun baton & Electric Mantle back at least?

that might approach to a balanced fight with STRs.

one more thing,there are few spell resist items suit for TAS,Sliptide Scythe is good since the recently version, Phantom Menace does little help especially in late game.