Talents

[atomheartman]

Hi there. I want to discuss a bit about talents.

As far as i can see there are lots of useless talents now. If i remember it right old talent tree was much better, isn't it.

Some useless talents:

 

undying - noone pick it, same as new Hand of Mengsk - #1 talent and item in game to not pick/buy.

 

5%spell damage - as our pro-players says it is crap

 

transport talent - a bit useless due to that CD, only few heroes pick it. for example you go 15dmg, 180health, cdr, mana, +200minerals and sometimes transport but i think there is lots of more usefull items.

 

As i can see in guide section leech talent is very rare - i dont understand it at all, compared with no leech item, how you play? is it so useless? i don't think so. Want to know why you dont like it?

 

OFF tree. Lots of guide recommend to go dmg, AS and veteran but in many games you will not see any advantage with veteran at lvl10 with same farm.

 

Same with +200 starting minerals - this early game advantage can be reached buy 1 creep camp farm - you will loose 1 creep wave in lane but you will be able to choose another talent which will help you in mid/late game.

 

For me it s better to go weapon dmg, leech, AS, health, armor/resist and MS as carry or some more survivable talents for casters instead of picking 200mins.

 

Dont you agree that veteran and 200minerals is a bit useless and there are much better options?

 

 

P.S. waiting for duran's pendant at start is ridiculous.

[TaxHaven]

No the wealth talent allows the user to start with lost treasure which is a great lane sustain item.

 

Veteran is very good, allows a quicker ulti timing. Eg boros

 

 

[atomheartman]

No the wealth talent allows the user to start with lost treasure which is a great lane sustain item.

 

Veteran is very good, allows a quicker ulti timing. Eg boros

 

 

I pick treasure often but isn't it better to start with 650 and buy it ASAP.

Veteran advantage is very situational, if you will be ganked or staying in a bad lane versus strong combo you wasting time and exp.

[Spooky]

I pick treasure often but isn't it better to start with 650 and buy it ASAP.

No, because if u want to buy it ASAP u have to TP back to base for it and that means u missing creep wave and experience. That may put u behind in levels early game and eventually u may loose lane. On more competitive environment u shouldn't do that. However in pubs there is nothing wrong with that.

[TaxHaven]

That's why you take veteran on jungles such as boros or grunty or Leo.

 

As for undying and spell damage I agree, but HoM is bought quite frequently on a few agis.

 

As for leech, it's true there are less leech items around now, but a machete will usually suffice until you are able to buy another leech item, so I rarely take this talent.

[ginosaji]

Both wealth and Veteran are highly used, as others have said. They both offer slight edges to early game that can be capitalized upon by a good player. I almost never get leech. There are just better options out there. Think about it... 400 weapon damage (.6)(0.06)=14.2 leech per attack. The .6 represents a 40% physical resist opponent. The 400 is an arbitrary example of an early late game weapon damage value. 40% is about what INT heroes have early late game when around their team. Now imagine an AGI or tank with 70% resist 400(.3)(0.06)= 7.2 leech per attack.

 

7.2-14.2 leech per attack depending on the armor value. The value in leech talent is just too low. Almost every hero will take Might, Fitness, Swiftness. That leaves 3 talents to mess with. Leech just doesn't give you any real benefit other than lane sustain.

 

Useless Talents:

Haste

Spell Damage

 

Rarely used:

Undying

Overlord

[John]

If you refer to the previous talent thread it was a big joke we're u'd have same talents with all heroes, why? Cause it was OP on ALL HEROES.

[Gwolla]

I get leech on toxi, combined with machete its very good early game imo.

You can solo a lane, get neutrals and heal back pretty fast.

Since his range and ms is awesome you should not be harrased too much by enemy heroes while healing back.

[John]

Fortify op on all heroes, inb4 nerf.

[Loki]

Overlord is a very powerful talent. There are some obvious hero's that significantly benefit from it such as bio or kerrigan or any hero with any type of minions. I use it on micro. Early in game when a carrier wave comes and because of your aura it survives in the back of your wave then you have a supper DPs unit behind you. All I have to do is throw a unit next to my carrier and watch it shred the enemy hero into pieces.

[iatebambi]

DEF>OFF imo. I will always put majority of my points into the defence tree, with 2 or so talents in ms and/or as.

[Lios]

Mana regen... No one need this when lost treasure exist...

[Moo]

Overlord is a very powerful talent. There are some obvious hero's that significantly benefit from it such as bio or kerrigan or any hero with any type of minions. I use it on micro. Early in game when a carrier wave comes and because of your aura it survives in the back of your wave then you have a supper DPs unit behind you. All I have to do is throw a unit next to my carrier and watch it shred the enemy hero into pieces.

I agree that overlord is a good talent, but I would like to point out that it does not affect minions created by heroes.

[ginosaji]

Mana regen... No one need this when lost treasure exist...

 

I get it on Maar sometimes... only one I can think of at the moment though.

[SayMyName]

Many talents are viable now and are situational which is good sign in proper balance.

 

Talent is very strong talent, mainly in splitpush and countering splitpushing strategies.

Overloard is also very strong (at least have it on one hero in comp) talent that helps with push. Esp strong and scalling with pushing lineups (and good to have vs push lineups)

 

 

Talent that is completly understimated is undying. Heroes already have short respawn time. With undying + HoM its even shorter. Shorter to the point in can be pain the ... to break a base and win a game vs "hugging" lineups and splitpushing lineups. Its funny for me how people are not already abusing this combo.

 

 

As for veteran and items like lethal barb etc. I don't like them cause they are being greedy- too much snowball oriented. Have too small window timing. Are too much risk factor oriented.

U basicly need to make kills and snowball for them to pay off.

 

 

+gold is safe pick. It gives early game + later timings. Thats why its picked so often.

Cause You can buy with it this lost treasure that covers Your laning regen and give You gpm from start for midgame and lategame. You dont need to buy other regen items (pots for example) You don't need to pick regen talents (2 ) You can trade hits on lane.

 

Greedy- "strongest " talent tree for straight fighiting purposes is defense tree. Practically for example- 7% resist will beat, be more value than +7% dmg (don't wanna go more further into that). Also the fortify with +50% resist is the strongest talent for a fight You can have. But then You dont have this gpm and regen from rushing lost treasure or snowball potential than with other talents like from atk tree (+atk speed, veteran- faster dmg potential timing). Still You won't die so often. You need to not lose laning phase and the midgame comparing to +gpm/regen rush.

[TaxHaven]

Gino you should try haste shadow in a pub with something like

Yamato

HoM

Galactic

Shinobi

Shadowmourne

Timesplitter

 

My gawd ulti and yamato and haste its so awesome.

[Hogwarts]

Both wealth and Veteran are highly used, as others have said. They both offer slight edges to early game that can be capitalized upon by a good player. I almost never get leech. There are just better options out there. Think about it... 400 weapon damage (.6)(0.06)=14.2 leech per attack. The .6 represents a 40% physical resist opponent. The 400 is an arbitrary example of an early late game weapon damage value. 40% is about what INT heroes have early late game when around their team. Now imagine an AGI or tank with 70% resist 400(.3)(0.06)= 7.2 leech per attack.

 

7.2-14.2 leech per attack depending on the armor value. The value in leech talent is just too low. Almost every hero will take Might, Fitness, Swiftness. That leaves 3 talents to mess with. Leech just doesn't give you any real benefit other than lane sustain.

 

Useless Talents:

Haste

Spell Damage

 

Rarely used:

Undying

Overlord

 

this is strong on queen. but not really worth on any other char. but with the recent mana increase on banes i normal skip this and go 1-5 or 2-4 in the defense / utility tree

 

 

/////

 

i think there is an obvious problem with the talents how we have some that are absolutely required if you don't get them you just lose and we have even more talents that are pretty much useless.

[SayMyName]

And as for talents i forgot to mention here that one of most no brain picks for talents for me is just health from defense (but still You can go also +money and buy googles or smth :P if really want + health)

I would propably try to lower 180health for something like +120.

 

I feel that people are too tanky in this game. Esp early game including laning stage, that game is not enough competitive and too much newbie friendly :)

[MrGrim]

I thought overlord was a somewhat broken talent in that people didn't really know if it actually applied to minions like mkp's or tosh's. Has it been clarified/fixed?

 

And leech is prolly necessary for junglers primarily since post-machete and in lane you don't need more than that for health sustain as a carry.

[Adversary]

Both wealth and Veteran are highly used, as others have said. They both offer slight edges to early game that can be capitalized upon by a good player. I almost never get leech. There are just better options out there. Think about it... 400 weapon damage (.6)(0.06)=14.2 leech per attack. The .6 represents a 40% physical resist opponent. The 400 is an arbitrary example of an early late game weapon damage value. 40% is about what INT heroes have early late game when around their team. Now imagine an AGI or tank with 70% resist 400(.3)(0.06)= 7.2 leech per attack.

 

7.2-14.2 leech per attack depending on the armor value. The value in leech talent is just too low. Almost every hero will take Might, Fitness, Swiftness. That leaves 3 talents to mess with. Leech just doesn't give you any real benefit other than lane sustain.

 

Useless Talents:

Haste

Spell Damage

 

Rarely used:

Undying

Overlord

Haste is not useless, it is great for neutral farming on AA heroes. The cooldown is low so it allows junglers to take creep very quickly, and create a gank faster.

[pchacker]

^^ Cooldown low? I thought it was like 2 mins or something.

[Moo]

I thought overlord was a somewhat broken talent in that people didn't really know if it actually applied to minions like mkp's or tosh's. Has it been clarified/fixed?

Overlord does not affect hero minions.

[atomheartman]

Overlord does not affect hero minions.

Oh no, i always picked it when playing MK, Tosh, Unix and Bio.... Kill me sayin that CoA doesnt affect aswell... What is the point of that talent then?

[TaxHaven]

Doesn't affect hero minions.

 

But when pushing, it does affect normal creeps, so its harder to kill off normal creep allowing for more pushin!!!!

[Moo]

Doesn't affect hero minions.

 

But when pushing, it does affect normal creeps, so its harder to kill off normal creep allowing for more pushin!!!!

Yep, so accidently picking it on heroes with minions meant to push isnt actually that bad.