Mineral & Leaver Bonus

[ANARCHY]

i will keep it short and simple as i know there are other threads in the past on this;

 

please balance mineral bonus so it scales correctly;

there really is no reason why the losing team should get a 60-80% bonus of minerals over the other team because 1-2 of their players left

and on top of that the original amount is being redistributed to less players which means its just excessive

 

Currently

5v5 = 5 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 25 minerals every second)

4v5 = 10 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 40 minerals every second) 60% increase

3v5 = 15 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 45 minerals every second) 80% increase

2v5 = 20 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 40 minerals every second)

1v5 = 25 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 25 minerals every second)

 

Proposed

5v5 = 5 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 25 minerals every second)

4v5 = 6.25 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 25 minerals every second)

3v5 = 8.33 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 25 minerals every second)

2v5 = 12.5 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 25 minerals every second)

1v5 = 25 minerals every 5 seconds per person (total of 25 minerals every second)

 

if you cant add a counter for half minerals etc just carry it till the next available time slot i.e.;

4v5 = 6 minerals every 5 seconds + 1 mineral every 20 seconds

 

 

Leaver Bonus

I'm in favour of keeping leaver bonus as it plays a big part in making pubs viable but i would like a small change to it & one interesting point i see that never comes up & i guess its now a lot more relevant in this current meta then before (tanks op);

we have 3 basic hero classes, tanks, dps, casters

 

leaver bonus gives you 5% physical and spell resist, how effective do you think that is on a tank vs a caster or dps?

 

why doesn't leaver bonus also give bonus physical and spell dmg? wouldn't that seem a bit more fair if the bonus attributes fitted all the hero classes instead of just favouring one?

sure all heroes benefit from the leaver bonus i'm not discrediting that, i just find that a 5,000 hp hero can do a lot more with 5% resist then a 2-3,000 hp hero (especially if that hero has a skill set of abilities that are for tanking)

 

ofcourse i don't expect it to stay at 5% bonus if it was changed to buff 4 attributes but i feel its a lot more balanced

[Jaysi]

So the 5% stronger bonus is actually only 5% damage resist? I really doubt that considering how resists dont stack linearly currently... That would be a very insignificant difference for people to complain about so much.

 

I always thought it was just invisibly added to your overall damage and overall resist(of course this is with no testing or anyone ever saying this lol)

[ANARCHY]

So the 5% stronger bonus is actually only 5% damage resist? I really doubt that considering how resists dont stack linearly currently... That would be a very insignificant difference for people to complain about so much.

 

I always thought it was just invisibly added to your overall damage and overall resist(of course this is with no testing or anyone ever saying this lol)

 

im pretty sure most people just complain about the mineral bonus rather then the leaver bonus, but nevertheless if your going to have a leaver bonus it should still be equal & balanced to each hero class instead of favouring tanks

and to clarify no it doesn't add 5% damage, thats the problem

[NeVeRWiN]

Anarachy, I have to say I'm not sure about the leaver bonus not being balanced. I say this because whenever I have experienced the leaver bonus and as most people know there's basically 1 leaver out of every 3 games from every pub, it tends to be from lack of player experience on one side generally. So my experience leaves me distasteful but yet fair. Fair in the sense that when I have the leaver buff I'm playing against newer players who get slaughtered by us. Or I'm with newer players on my team, where im solo and usually and we are playing good opponents who have good composition and sometimes we can finagle a win. So my experience leaves me in a weird position to say that I feel it's hard to say anything about this as I haven't played it in a fair position where both teams are good. Where the outcome was determined by leaver buff, and not just good old out playing them. Any thoughts to this, anyone? I wanna say it needs a nerf in some way, how I'm uncertain, but I don't know how many have truly experienced a leaver buff loss with good allies against new players who purely won because of the buff. I'm curious as to what people think of this and what they have to say. I'd truly like to see because if it is unbalanced then it should be reworked.

[Moo]

Anarachy, I have to say I'm not sure about the leaver bonus not being balanced. I say this because whenever I have experienced the leaver bonus and as most people know there's basically 1 leaver out of every 3 games from indie pub side of the coin. So my experience leaves me distasteful but yet fair. Fair in the sense that when I have the keaver buff I'm playing against newer players who get slaughtered by us. Or I'm with newer players on my team solo usually and we are playing good opponents who have good composition and sometimes we can finagle a win. So my experience leaves me in a weird position to say that I feel it's hard to say anything about this as I havebt played it in a fair position where both teams are good. Where the outcome wad determined by leaver buff, and not just good old out playing them. Any thoughts to this anyone? I wanna say it needs a need in some way, how I'm uncertain but I don't know how many ha e truly experienced a leaver buff loss with good allies against new players who purely won because of the buff. I'm curious as to what people think of this and what they have to say. I'd truly like to see because if it is unbalanced then it should be reworked.

It is really broken IMO. It almost doubles the passive income you would be gaining if you had 5 people if you have 3. The bonus should be made so that the passive mineral gain stays the same overall as anarchy is saying.

[NeVeRWiN]

I see what your saying. I just feel on my end I've had bitter experiences because the team's wrrent fair to begin with. By fair I mean 4 good players against 5 good players with balanced team comps. But I must say sometimes I feel like the games I have lost potentially were due to the buff. But I feel like I'm making excusing for my lack of playing by blaming it on a buff as opposed to my lack of abilities. If that makes sense.

[ANARCHY]

I see what your saying. I just feel on my end I've had bitter experiences because the team's wrrent fair to begin with. By fair I mean 4 good players against 5 good players with balanced team comps. But I must say sometimes I feel like the games I have lost potentially were due to the buff. But I feel like I'm making excusing for my lack of playing by blaming it on a buff as opposed to my lack of abilities. If that makes sense.

this is what im getting at though, currently not only does it move the mineral distribution that would be split between 5 people and then give that total to 3 people which would buff them to the equal amount if they did not have those players it also then gives an extra 80% on top of that

aswell as leaver bonus of 5%

 

its never a fair match to begin with, but that doesnt mean the losing team that had people RQ should get an 80% bonus on top of their normal bonus...

[Moo]

I see what your saying. I just feel on my end I've had bitter experiences because the team's wrrent fair to begin with. By fair I mean 4 good players against 5 good players with balanced team comps. But I must say sometimes I feel like the games I have lost potentially were due to the buff. But I feel like I'm making excusing for my lack of playing by blaming it on a buff as opposed to my lack of abilities. If that makes sense.

It does make sense, but plain, old logic should make this a no-brainer. If you have more than 1 person and less than 5, you have more passive mineral gain, and therefore your team gets more money overall. The more money is also distributed between fewer people, so it is more influential. This gives an unfair advantage.

[NeVeRWiN]

I see what your saying. I can't disagree there.

[Doom]

5% buff is somewhat annoying when heroes with huge scaling get involved (balrog, drake and ling are particularily unpleasant) but I don't mind it so much.

 

Minerals on the other hand are complete bs. 1 mineral/ second should be the rule no matter what, and no money given from leavers.

[GENLORDZ]

5% buff is somewhat annoying when heroes with huge scaling get involved (balrog, drake and ling are particularily unpleasant) but I don't mind it so much.

 

Minerals on the other hand are complete bs. 1 mineral/ second should be the rule no matter what, and no money given from leavers.

Then when it goes down to 1v5 i dont find any way that the guy can have enough money to vs 5, cause 1 mineral/ second for a 1 team = 1mps(Mineral per second) while the team with 5 gets 5mps...

[Ironsights]

I don't personally mind the mineral bonus at all...seems fair, really, since they are playing 'man-down' to have a little extra income.

 

I find the leaver's buff to be OP, in that the heroes are usually stronger than their items would suggest, meaning a strong early game hero with a leaver buff is brutally effective and able to snowball much too fast...making it almost better to have one or two leavers if you are playing as, for instance, nova.

[GENLORDZ]

I don't personally mind the mineral bonus at all...seems fair, really, since they are playing 'man-down' to have a little extra income.

 

I find the leaver's buff to be OP, in that the heroes are usually stronger than their items would suggest, meaning a strong early game hero with a leaver buff is brutally effective and able to snowball much too fast...making it almost better to have one or two leavers if you are playing as, for instance, nova.

Not lol, apparently the leavers buff only buff your physical resist and spell resist by 5%...

[Etd]

Arg the grammar in your poll is annoying.

[Moo]

I don't personally mind the mineral bonus at all...seems fair, really, since they are playing 'man-down' to have a little extra income.

 

I find the leaver's buff to be OP, in that the heroes are usually stronger than their items would suggest, meaning a strong early game hero with a leaver buff is brutally effective and able to snowball much too fast...making it almost better to have one or two leavers if you are playing as, for instance, nova.

The reason for people being stronger with leaver buff is that they will be an item ahead of you if you are not very fed and they are not very underfed. The buff mostly shows when facing tanks, probably because it apparently only affects resists.

[TaxHaven]

Then again, they are a man or two or three or four down, meaning you have an extra set of skills or heroes with items to outclass them. Maybe four vs five, but the rest ie three v or two v or 1v should be won easily by the full team.

[Jaysi]

Beginning of game leavers:

Team gains very little minerals from leavers items.

Team gains significant minerals per second.

Team gains significant resist for early game(go from base 15% to 19.25% resists for 1 leaver)

 

Outcome: stronger lanes except for whoever has the 1v2, may have gotten a stronger starting item with slight minerals gained from leaver. If not ganked or harassed by the extra team mate then the leaver team should end up snowballing with the income and higher resists.

 

Mid game leaver:

Significant bonus to current minerals. Leads to large item advantage.

Decent increase in minerals per second.

Decent increase in resist(say you're at 30% at this point, goes to 33.5% for 1 leaver).

 

Outcome:

Gain large item advantage. Usually out of laning phase. If the team with leavers still has a good team composition(hasn't lost their tank, carry, and CC) then they will probably pull ahead in team fights.

 

Late game leaver:

Significant increase in current minerals.

Insignificant increase to minerals per second.

Insignificant increase to resists(50% goes to 52.5% for 1 leaver)

 

Outcome:

If you're maxed on items then you gain nothing from minerals and increased income. Resists gained for tanks is extremely insignificant. Carries and supports gain more reasonable resists. Team with non-leavers should easily win being able to split push and team fight better.

 

I feel like that approximately summarizes the current effect of leaver bonus.

 

@Anarchy

And to your point about tanks gaining more from the resists. Yes, tanks make more use out of resistances. However, a tank gains way less bonus resist from it than a carry or support. A tank at 50% and 70% goes to 52.5% and 71.5% resist. A carry at say 30% and 35% goes to 33.5% and 38.25%.

[Lios]

Beginning of game leavers:

Team gains very little minerals from leavers items.

Team gains significant minerals per second.

Team gains significant resist for early game(go from base 15% to 19.25% resists for 1 leaver)

 

Outcome: stronger lanes except for whoever has the 1v2, may have gotten a stronger starting item with slight minerals gained from leaver. If not ganked or harassed by the extra team mate then the leaver team should end up snowballing with the income and higher resists.

 

Mid game leaver:

Significant bonus to current minerals. Leads to large item advantage.

Decent increase in minerals per second.

Decent increase in resist(say you're at 30% at this point, goes to 33.5% for 1 leaver).

 

Outcome:

Gain large item advantage. Usually out of laning phase. If the team with leavers still has a good team composition(hasn't lost their tank, carry, and CC) then they will probably pull ahead in team fights.

 

Late game leaver:

Significant increase in current minerals.

Insignificant increase to minerals per second.

Insignificant increase to resists(50% goes to 52.5% for 1 leaver)

 

Outcome:

If you're maxed on items then you gain nothing from minerals and increased income. Resists gained for tanks is extremely insignificant. Carries and supports gain more reasonable resists. Team with non-leavers should easily win being able to split push and team fight better.

 

I feel like that approximately summarizes the current effect of leaver bonus.

 

@Anarchy

And to your point about tanks gaining more from the resists. Yes, tanks make more use out of resistances. However, a tank gains way less bonus resist from it than a carry or support. A tank at 50% and 70% goes to 52.5% and 71.5% resist. A carry at say 30% and 35% goes to 33.5% and 38.25%.

 

When you're max and got spare monay :

- Sell 1 Item, fill the map with ward, get sum food that are taking neutral

- Consumable....

[Jaysi]

 

 

When you're max and got spare monay :

- Sell 1 Item, fill the map with ward, get sum food that are taking neutral

- Consumable....

 

If they're maxed then they have TS Elixer so taking that much time to ward outweighs the potential rewards because they can clear as they go. Once I have my final items I have no trouble keeping enough money for consumables.

[Lios]

 

 

If they're maxed then they have TS Elixer so taking that much time to ward outweighs the potential rewards because they can clear as they go. Once I have my final items I have no trouble keeping enough money for consumables.

 

In case this is the team that have the leaver bonus which max out first, ward works for a certain of time before someone get elixir

[EterNity]

Is this the 2515150th post about Leaver bonus?

 

The developers do NOT want to change it. Period.

 

No amount of posts or complains can change that.

 

This thread should be locked as well since every point, every suggestion, and everything related has been discussed to death.

 

*Edit* For people that cannot read sarcasm.

[ANARCHY]

Is this the 2515150th post about Leaver bonus?

actually its the 1st post i think i have seen in a long time that tries to discuss both leaver and mineral bonus in depth instead of just flaming

The developers do NOT want to change it. Period.

wow we get a new person in to balance the game and within a few days you know his entire plan?

No amount of posts or complains can change that.

 

This thread should be locked as well since every point, every suggestion, and everything related has been discussed to death.

leaver bonus and mineral bonus always seem to get jumbled together and called the same thing, so no one generally knows which you are actually referring to

(it even shows with the first line of your post, clearly this thread is also about mineral bonus)

[Ironsights]

even if it does only effect resists, its still the problem in my eyes. Boosting the defense of a hero changes a clean kill into a "how the f*** did you survive that?!" moment, and that is where the issue lies in my mind.

 

The money says "oh, you are out numbered, so lets have you get to better gear faster for a fighting chance"

The buff says "oh, you are out numbered, so lets make you more durable to compensate"

 

Honestly, one or the other would be fine, but both together is overpowering, and in my opinion if one has to go and one has to stay, I would say to keep the money and drop the buff.

[Lios]

even if it does only effect resists, its still the problem in my eyes. Boosting the defense of a hero changes a clean kill into a "how the f*** did you survive that?!" moment, and that is where the issue lies in my mind.

 

The money says "oh, you are out numbered, so lets have you get to better gear faster for a fighting chance"

The buff says "oh, you are out numbered, so lets make you more durable to compensate"

 

Honestly, one or the other would be fine, but both together is overpowering, and in my opinion if one has to go and one has to stay, I would say to keep the money and drop the buff.

 

Money love no one, money would never say that

[Ironsights]

Money love no one, money would never say that

 

so long as the Fed keeps printing 'free' money to prop up the economy, the money will say whateverit has to to make you spend it.

 

SPEND, SPEND FOR YOUR COUNTRY!