Anti back door solution?

[Etd]

I'm getting pretty sick of shade back dooring the artifact in pubs. There isn't enough team work to stop it. Why not include at least a temp fix until a better solution can be implemented.

 

Something like if your main base still has 2 towers make the artifact immune to damage...

[Moo]

The buff to artifact hp last patch was definately enough, I disagree with you.

[Figgonson]

What do you mean Shadow backdoors in pubs? It is pretty hard to tank the tower damage no matter how fast you can attack.

 

People always complain about how shadow backdoors and stuff, but i have yet to actually see any char "backdoor"

[TaxHaven]

Cough Maar MK Unix mass tele backdoor op

[Adamantium]

What do you mean Shadow backdoors in pubs? It is pretty hard to tank the tower damage no matter how fast you can attack.

 

People always complain about how shadow backdoors and stuff, but i have yet to actually see any char "backdoor"

 

I have seen many people backdoor, both as a team and alone. When alone, you probably won't kill it in one go, but you can wear it down quickly within a few attempts. Just FYI about a month ago as Penthos, I challenged the artifact to a 1v1 and won.

[Etd]

Well moo I disagree with you.

 

I just played a game, a shade took down the artifacts shields to around 200 shields in one to. It was an hour and 10 into the game but still. We had all but 1 of their towers gone with 5 people and the where 3. Once minute we had 3 towers left (inner base towers), the next second someone pinged and shade was in our. By the time we ported back, shade was dead and the tower had gone from perfect shields to 200. We had to keep 2 people on base defence for the rest of the game and we still lost. Shade just suicided the artifact on his next spawn.

[Etd]

Someone also asked me shades items in game. Organic, khali, energy sabre, that shield thing with 80dmg, contain shard and time splitter.

[MOTHER]

The artifact buff is not enough. AA heroes especially shadow can still 1v1 towers, much earlier and much easier than they are supposed to.

 

Solution: Tower Fortify consumable (price 500-750 minerals). Bought like a potion and once consumed, all towers (and artifact) gain bonus X shield for Y seconds.

 

Can be consumed anytime anywhere if it is in your item slot. Multiple Tower Fortify consumables do not stack.

 

This will give you time to get back to base and a realistic counter. Backdooring is not the problem, it is a viable strategy. The problem is that there is no feasible and timely counter-strategy besides luck.

[barwick]

Solution:

Tower - Reduced to 4000 shields, 3000 HP

Tower - Gains hardened shields ability - All damage to tower (after resists) is automatically reduced to 20 damage.

 

This forces you to get a creep wave in there to damage it significantly.

[Moo]

Well moo I disagree with you.

 

I just played a game, a shade took down the artifacts shields to around 200 shields in one to. It was an hour and 10 into the game but still. We had all but 1 of their towers gone with 5 people and the where 3. Once minute we had 3 towers left (inner base towers), the next second someone pinged and shade was in our. By the time we ported back, shade was dead and the tower had gone from perfect shields to 200. We had to keep 2 people on base defence for the rest of the game and we still lost. Shade just suicided the artifact on his next spawn.

Heroes should be able to backdoor, just not as easily as they were doing before the artifact shield buff. Shadow is a backdoor hero, and even so, if you look for him backdooring as you should when facing him, you won't have much of a problem. Only in uber lategame where the backdooring hero has full build and all potions does backdooring really become a problem, and even then smart play beats it, you just can't go as 5 down mid when playing against a shadow and expect good things to happen. Shadow is the king of lategame backdoor, and you should treat him as such by watching the lanes for a shadow pushing, and then sending a counter pusher or another hero to defend. If you notice that shade is pushing your base once he has already killed a tower then it is your fault for not be map aware vs a shadow.

[WhitetrasH]

Why not just make towers invulnerable untill an enemy creep comes within lets say 20 units of it (i can't remember your units of measurement so units may be to much, but you're smelling what i'm selling). Then with the artifact, you make it so that there has to be creep within your base, meaning that if there is an enemy creep within the walls of your base, there is no invulnerability.

 

Now when i say creep i mean lane creep, not nuetral (from nuetral camps) or hero creep (like MK marines, queens ultra or raynors marauders)... just regular plain lane creep. This way maar can still do his mass tele & kill a tower/artifact but backdooring in general would be stopped.. This way you're not stopping a viable strategy with maar but stopping this cheap ass exploit.

 

If memory serves ( & it may not), Sotis 6.x (AoS V1.x) use to have a similar component to it, where we could attack the tower when creep wasn't there & it would take damage, but would take less damage because of armour/shields but the minute creeps came into range of the tower, the tower buff would subside & you would go back to doing your regular damage to the tower.

[barwick]

Heroes should be able to backdoor, just not as easily as they were doing before the artifact shield buff. Shadow is a backdoor hero, and even so, if you look for him backdooring as you should when facing him, you won't have much of a problem. Only in uber lategame where the backdooring hero has full build and all potions does backdooring really become a problem, and even then smart play beats it, you just can't go as 5 down mid when playing against a shadow and expect good things to happen. Shadow is the king of lategame backdoor, and you should treat him as such by watching the lanes for a shadow pushing, and then sending a counter pusher or another hero to defend. If you notice that shade is pushing your base once he has already killed a tower then it is your fault for not be map aware vs a shadow.

 

Um, shadow doesn't appear on the minimap. That's part of the problem.

 

It's easy enough to drop an item and go on a 2 minute warding adventure across the map, but when shadow doesn't show up on the minimap, it's pointless.

[Yaldi]

He does with detection... try using truesight wards they are op ie onlyvwards worth having. Also if shadow is fully itemized as a hard carry he should be able to back door. As usual the best couter to this gripe is learning to play. And not being surprised that shadow is split pushing...

[atomheartman]

Hp scaling on tower. With creeps it deals 10%hp as damage.

Without creep - 20%.And i think overall damage should be increased because when creeps is here its to easy to focus temple - it is hard to kill all creeps to defenders what gives backdoor hero lots of time. let temple to 1 shot default creep.

[Moo]

Hp scaling on tower. With creeps it deals 10%hp as damage.

Without creep - 20%.And i think overall damage should be increased because when creeps is here its to easy to focus temple - it is hard to kill all creeps to defenders what gives backdoor hero lots of time. let temple to 1 shot default creep.

The game would never end if the temple one-shot creeps, since if you try to push into the base the temple would kill all of your creeps in 5-10 seconds depending on whether the wave was snowballed. @barwick You have to be actively moving your screen to watch for shade backdooring, but not all the time, you can get wind of it by watching the creep wave dots to see if it is dying faster, and if it is scroll over to that lane and look to see if shadow is there. If a shadow is on the other team you have to actively be doing this, get ts wards as yaldi suggested, which also solve the problem. You can't just play normally vs a shadow, you have to be more map aware. It is pretty much the same thing when facing unix, garamond, penthos, and a few other heroes. Just as you need to look out for micro teleporting in for a throw to get away from him, so must you watch for heroes splitpushing.

[Moo]

Accidental double post.

[atomheartman]

The game would never end if the temple one-shot creeps, since if you try to push into the base the temple would kill all of your creeps in 5-10 seconds depending on whether the wave was snowballed.

Disagree. when there is 40 creeps and 5-7 ultralisks... even if there is the whole defending team. they just cant leave the base because there is too much creep at home.

[hbogyt]

Regarding Shadow's ability not to appear on the mini-map, as suggested, it is easily remedied by true sight wards. AoS players have got into an unhealthy habit of insufficient warding. The map is small enough already, there is no restock timer on wards and true-sight wards grants a reasonably large field of view on their own. It is not at all excessive to ward the entire map late-game.

[TaxHaven]

Strider told me a fully geared ling or shade can kill the artifact without dying.

[DoubleGGueswhos]

Ling is king of soloing towers fast and without an lost of health because his zerlings get attacks first.Well i guess zera can aswell with ulti and yamato.

 

I think the forify on towers is a pretty solid and good idea.U won't be able to negotiate heavy push-compositionss, but it will help to deal woth em in some way.

[Lios]

Pubs ? GET THE DAMN JAKKS, when shade comes, boom. Literally got like 13 kills in jakks pub this way :/

[Revolution]

Well moo I disagree with you.

 

I just played a game, a shade took down the artifacts shields to around 200 shields in one to. It was an hour and 10 into the game but still. We had all but 1 of their towers gone with 5 people and the where 3. Once minute we had 3 towers left (inner base towers), the next second someone pinged and shade was in our. By the time we ported back, shade was dead and the tower had gone from perfect shields to 200. We had to keep 2 people on base defence for the rest of the game and we still lost. Shade just suicided the artifact on his next spawn.

 

Honestly this just sounds like poor play on your teams part. If the game was 5v3 and your team had the 2 man advantage there is no reason you should have lost late game. Especially if shadow died. He's dead for about 60+ seconds and 5 people can push against 2 players and 5 people can outpush 1 hero.

 

@barwick

 

From what he was saying the shadow was backdooring towers too, which give detection. So the entire time shadow was backdooring he was visible on the map, they just realized to late.

[SayMyName]

Losing to splitpush 5v3? What a terrible game.

 

Pubs or people with lack of knowledge are crying about leaver bonus being op, but hearing about losing to splitpush 5v3 not that often.

 

With correct teamfights with deathpush or correct never ending splitpushing according to situation and there is basicly no way to lose 5v3 if team only know what basic stuff to do.

______________________________________________

 

 

About bd protection. Yes i know from experience there need to be some kind of protection (help, not counter) to be able to deal with splitpush in some degree. Game should have included some mechanics. There are many possible solutions.

 

For me good solution would be as someone said, more res to towers without creeps (maybe even +more dmg/range but only "maybe") with reasonable value.

With addiction of some kind of protection/glyph/fortification. I would like to see some kinda of mechanic like paying some amount of gold for certain amount of protection on towers (like for example 20-80 gold per sec, maybe estimated according to game lenght with some maximum value) -> this would enable winning team to be able to deal in some degree with splitpush.

 

I also feel that respawn time is little too low in the game.

 

We don't wanna kill the splitpush possibilty (esp for early game) and this kind of strategy, but to prevent it from being retarded.

[Lios]

Losing to splitpush 5v3? What a terrible game.

 

Pubs or people with lack of knowledge are crying about leaver bonus being op, but hearing about losing to splitpush 5v3 not that often.

 

With correct teamfights with deathpush or correct never ending splitpushing according to situation and there is basicly no way to lose 5v3 if team only know what basic stuff to do.

 

Also, if they're leaving means they gonna missing role like tanks for cc and carry for dps vv.... Losing is kinda bad indeed

[SayMyName]

Also, if they're leaving means they gonna missing role like tanks for cc and carry for dps vv.... Losing is kinda bad indeed

 

Yes If ur playing 5v3 U have way more options, possiblities. This is way higher advantage that some miserable few percentages on stats for 3 heroes.. Way more stuns, or splitpush heroes, or tank + dps, more reasonable compositions being able to achieve. Even if U talk about pure stats and pure power its still 5 v 3 with some more perecentages from leaver bonus

 

 

ADDITIONAL STUFF/OOT

People are just mad cause losing, trying to blame everything else, when playing the game not correctly to what it is- as a team. And also not understanding it enough, with timings, options, decisions, positioning, map control, trades, benefits, cons. situations etc

But that happens when somebody plays the game with presumption of it being 1v1 kill frag game, more dmg/be godlike- immortal or do whatever U want and still winning (cause some people can't lose no matter what, right? Then the game must be wrong), often with like 0 to 5 month experience of game, thinking he knows everything. There are and will be always diffrent people playing the game (only thing to try to change this in some degree are good guides/sources/explanations/defnitions ez to understand with ez way to find and access)

 

There is only one good solution to this if U wanna keep playing (but overall 3 options) -

1) keep arguing/blaming making person-urself and people around feel worse

2) leave game and go/do something else that fits better Ur needs

3) grow up, start to want to improve, with listenening, trying to keep understanding more game and just go start playing more competetive (as a team vs team game, cause that what this game is)

 

This two underlined sentences are 2 main things pub players are struggling with the most.