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Need item vs Pushers like gara, unix, MK...


Raphael
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I think, we should have item vs pushers like old Shrapnel Cloak.

How it should work.

 

+250 HP

+10% CD

[unique] Give 10% resist for towers.

[Active] Kills everyone no-heros and no-creeps units enemies (like Marins from MK or Unix) in a 10-unit radius. 60 second cooldown.

 

Cost: 2000

 

Because Pushers now OP, look at this:

 

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Something to counter pushers or to make them worthelss? We should find the medium term.

Why worthless??? MK, Unix have a low CD for make new minions... Gara don't have cd for make scv...

This item just give u a chance to protect push and just only 1 time, after 60 sec CD... and pushers can do push again...

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Good that pushers see play and games are shorter or some of them. U have counters to pushers- counter pushers- aoe long range heroes/area denial that are already in a game. I see hard pushing line-up like 3 hard pushers vs no counter pushers still winning game at 35 min mark.

 

And U have explo retrofit for Ur carry

Forget about explo retrofit, pushers make game early, then u will have it. I about item for support hero vs pushers for def towers in early game...

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Lol, why forget? This item is really strong for the job. And as I said - U should have counter pushers to help u handle the pushers. Draft this game was horrible. No counterpushers picked and allowing 3 of them- the pushers, with scaling each other (mk) - understimating them and strategy completly.

 

I dont see anything wrong here. I see a thing, a strategy that works correctly at moba.

 

Still at AoS (considered "fast paced moba" lol ) hardcore pushers strat winning at 35-40 min mark.

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Its not stupid, its correctly. If U cant win even with 20 kills (it was not 20 kills btw) that means U fu... up really hard and dont know how to play vs this. Esp U lost draft. Its a moba. U should draft better.

 

Pushing is very important aspect of Moba. This game involves towers and taking main bulding- that's the main goal. Its not quake arena. Because it's strategy U should have diffrent ways achieving that.

 

What U wanna do is remove competetive aspect. U wanna "herp dont matter what "support" hero i pick, We don't need counter pushers and they can draft whatever cause i can still just buy item"

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LoL, this item dont counter pushers on 100%, its just give u a chance to counter, no more... And game don't be so scale of pushers... Enemy capt should to know, if he pick mass pushers, he lose, cuz, enemy team will buy this item... And he should pick max only 1 pusher and 4 another heroes. It is balance.

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LoL, this item dont counter pushers on 100%, its just give u a chance to counter, no more... And game don't be so scale of pushers... Enemy capt should to know, if he pick mass pushers, he lose, cuz, enemy team will buy this item... And he should pick max only 1 pushers and 4 another heroes. It is balance.

 

Ur thinking is wrong on so many lvls.... That I really would need to make again one of my "essay" posts.

 

NO ITEM should hard counter completly 100% something ez-pz- I mean esp an entire strategy U choosed (and an item for 2k???????? ) From what Ur saying- U wanna remove pushers from game and drafting impact and reduce hero roles (that would be result of Ur demands) which already was at some period of time in this game. Cause U don't like pushers? U don't like them cause U don't know how to play vs them? U don't like them cause Ur used to making frags in game?

 

I repeat this game is not a Quake arena. Its moba. Ur goal is to win game. To win moba game U need to take towers and "throne". U can get it for example by taking gold advantage (farming or pickoffs/ganks, or teamfights etc) to obtain easier/possible push/taking those towers or just take those towers straight by pushing, map control, rotation, map advantage. U could even inseminate so much fear and psychological factors/plays/mindgames in competetive match, that the opponent stops knowing what to do, start making mistakes, choose wrong strategy or surrender- but that can happen mostly when teams/players have already high diffrence in skill/expierence. Draft and picks are very important for a win in competetive moba. They are first decisions that outlines ur strategy, way of play, Ur options (cut some off them, some add, some "buffs", some "nerfs")

 

 

Who said that "he should pick only 1 pusher, 1 certain hero " and 4 rest diffrent. If U, Ur team cant handle this- its then Ur fault. Mainly cause of lack of knowledge and bad draft (which is result again cause of lack of knowledge and expierence and communication in team). Maybe U are afraid but ill tell U - there are ways (already in game) to counter this type of strategy. U need at least decent draft and know what to do in game.

 

Pushers are important! Stupidly important at moba. I hope U start to understanding it in some degree already from what i posted here (but my other older posts in diffrent topics could help to understand it more). But I will explain it more also here.

 

Pushers give a stronger early-midgame timing in mobas. And help (even late) to obtain the main goal - take down towers. Esp after pickoffs. If U don't have pushers/pushing in moba, game is ez to obtain into lategame. Ur cutting, deleting the option of diffrent hero picks, of diffrent strategies. Pushers help to balance everything's out.

 

Yes it's good to have at least one decent pusher at comp, that will enable Ur team to have option of splitpush, of trading tower after lost teamfight, or enables U to take towers faster after obtaining a kill or just help U to get easier tier3 and finishing the game. Still farmed good lategame carry will provide U the same, with much more dps in teamfights. Thats how proper moba works.

 

In other games, if U pick hard push lineup- they know what they do, and enemy have NOTHING to play against it. Games end at 85% of time at 15-20min mark if some really bad mistakes were not made, beside the draft.

 

Counter pushers (heroes with long range aoe abillities, or area denial abillities) helps to balance pushers out. And Balance the team not being able to take only retarded lategame. Sadly in this game many of the counter pushers scales retardly strong into lategame. Even beating normal standard aa-dps carries (which leaded into normal carries being "midgame" carries, with crits etc). Thats the kinda non-logical non strategic benefical mechanic and metagame this game had and still have. Thats why U didnt saw hard push lineups before. Good teams knew how to handle it. Pushers got a little buff. And thats good.

 

Regarding to Explo Retrofit, this item is amazing at handling with the pushers. And very good at its own for farm AND dps. Its 70%!!!!! Aoe magical dmg, even for RANGE aa (late game true aoe magic dmg rules this game). U can even make some amazing wombo combos with Ur carries with this item. At least this item doesn't have too huge aoe splash/cleave range. Cause it would be retarded.

 

But people don't buy this item much. It is strong situational item. And its perfect (maybe even too strong).

People don't buy this item vs pushers (or buy it too late). Many teams don't pick correct heroes vs certain startegies, compositions, this includes pushing lineup. And teams don't know how to play and what to do in game vs certain strategies, including pushing lineups.

 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________________________

TL:DR:

 

I can quarantee U that this game have possiblity, and have counters to hard push lineups, but U don't see it cause people don't use it, don't play correctly.

 

U showed example of diffrent strategies, one beating other one. With complete outdraft and not-knowing what to do from one team. I don't see anything wrong here.

 

If U don't believe, cause I don't wanna argue- I can show U after the tournament with a team, some of my friends vs any Ur or any decent team that will pick hard push lineup how to beat this strat. I needed 3 minutes to think about strategy, line-up that will decimate this strat. And i needed 2 minutes more- 5minutes overall to think and know the diffrent compositions and possible drafting processes. But for this I needed not to rage, have experience of this game and mobas, and put work- think for some time.

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Ok, show me. I want to see it.

Plz forget about Explo Retrofit and any another item. U will have 1 item or max 1,5 items and will lose game vs mass pushers... and its retard, imao...

I think will be nice, if some support hero will have good item vs mass pushers.

For example, spell buffer don't counter Casters on 100%, but can help for protect.

And why don't we have item like it vs Pushes...

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Ur thinking is wrong on so many lvls.... That I really would need to make again one of my "essay" posts.

 

NO ITEM should hard counter completly 100% something ez-pz- I mean esp an entire strategy U choosed (and an item for 2k???????? ) From what Ur saying- U wanna remove pushers from game and drafting impact and reduce hero roles (that would be result of Ur demands) which already was at some period of time in this game. Cause U don't like pushers? U don't like them cause U don't know how to play vs them? U don't like them cause Ur used to making frags in game?

although somewhat unrelated

we still have this magical item called dark steel titan

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Chilling artifact + counter pusher works nicely. Playing against 3 pushers with so little counterpushers should result in loss

 

I mean you have boros: very bad aeo namely spellstorm

Darpa: no aeo

Vorpal: surge ulti but has to get personal so meh at best

brine: 0 aeo

rory: pyramid and rebounder only go so far

 

Against

Mk: insane pusher

unix: insane pusher energy hungry but still a beast

Gara: Insane pusher

 

They had the 3 best pushers ingame and you had nothing

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You need single target and aoe spells or items that do little-moderate damage but do bonus damage against summoned units/minions.

 

Then you should introduce an item that summons extra units (like DotA's necronomicon). This favors both pushing and counter pushing and is besides having a balanced hero composition to counter pushers.

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You need single target and aoe spells or items that do little-moderate damage but do bonus damage against summoned units/minions.

 

Then you should introduce an item that summons extra units (like DotA's necronomicon). This favors both pushing and counter pushing and is besides having a balanced hero composition to counter pushers.

 

??????????????

Necronomicon favours pushers, its an item for pushers, or splitpushers not for carries or other heroes. Pushers have some kind of auras often that buffs minions.

 

Carries doesnt go items to spawn minions and items scaling the minions, but items that enables scaling themselves, increase their dps, survivability, mobility etc.

 

U have already stupid amount on scaling of aoe spells in the game

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to be honest I dont think it is possible to fight 2-3 pushers. If u get 4 pushers + a good carry that will farm, it will be impossible to win vs that team. You can get a tank from one - two pushers and mule can carry too.

If you look at the math. To be equal with pushers money wise u need to get 5-7kills per every tower money wise (not to mention all the experience). Not to mention aeon that will probably gonna get pushed too, which is 6-8 kills. If u push 6 towers and wont let em push any towers, pushers will have 6k + possible aeon. Which is another 1.125. It is absurd and impossible to stop without lots of antipushers. Not to mention that with this much of pushers they can split and die and still win the game, cause 1-2 will die pushing few towers a little bit, and the last pusher will destroy the one tower that is left without dps hero. Retrofit should be 1st item on dps, and still it wont help much, because by the time 1-2 dps will have em, 2-3 t1 towers will be gone making it almost impossible to win.

 

It it complete imbalance and I dont rly know why people do free pick when it is so stupid right now. 2 pushers should be max for any composition, otherwise team gets OP.

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