Regarding Armour and Spells

[hbogyt]

In the current version, physical resist is abundantly available in the form of Dark Steel Titan. Coupled with Organic Carapace, tanky casters are practically impervious to physical damage late game making DPS heroes more or less irrelevant.

 

Here are my spontaneous thoughts on addressing this imbalance incorporating certain ideas from Dota 2.

 

1. implement more armour reduction mechanisms and strengthen their effects. There are only 1 item with such effect right now, the Contaminated Shard. Making Nova's Scoped passive scalable would also nelp.

 

2. level the playing field by making an item with an active effect of giving the owner temporary massive spell resist, akin to the Black King Bar of Dota 2, except that this would not be debuff immune.

 

3. Increase critical strike damage or have ways of doings so. Preferably to roughly the same extent as in Dota 2, around 200% - 400%.

Critical-striking against DST still does paltry damage.

 

4. Scale mana costs of spells more steeply. This focuses players on mana management more and makes certain spells less spammable.

[MOTHER]

I don't think AA heroes need any more help, most of them are good, even great where they are now.

[zeeeend]

Pyre, sliptide, cont shard, bhm lesser extent cerebro and timesplitter

Loads of ways to ignore pyshical resist.

Only heroes i ever have trouble with as dps are ere justicar micro and drake

[Jaysi]

I'd like an item that reduces armor/physical resist that scales with the enemies armor and physical resist. That way the item is situational and only better than other items if the enemy is stacking armor/physical resist.

[Moo]

Darksteel just needs a nerf, which I heard being talked about on mumble yesterday, so hopefully this is coming.

[ginosaji]

TBH I think resist is decent. I think Darksteel needs to take longer to fully stack, which would make it less viable for lower HP heroes. Basically, if there's a Justi, Drake, Micro, LZ, or more than one STR hero building tanky, every AGI AA will go pyre early mid game and contam shard early late game. Unless they're way behind, it does pretty well.

[Lios]

A single AA never gonna be able to take down a tank ( Say the tank build all of his item for his own good, not aura items ) or either a caster. I think the only stat that need nerf is spell resist... Galatic is kinda a problem for burst caster too.

[Moo]

A single AA never gonna be able to take down a tank ( Say the tank build all of his item for his own good, not aura items ) or either a caster. I think the only stat that need nerf is spell resist... Galatic is kinda a problem for burst caster too.

Are you saying that a single aa hero will never be able to take on a tank or a caster 1v1? Spell resist should not be nerfed IMO, there are only a few spell resist items that are good as it is.

[Lios]

Are you saying that a single aa hero will never be able to take on a tank or a caster 1v1? Spell resist should not be nerfed IMO, there are only a few spell resist items that are good as it is.

 

It's rare for an AA to get a tank that got a bit of damage by him/herself. Say like drake and Tychus. So as caster, can't beat a tank with full items. I feel like Str heroes is kinda too strong.

[Moo]

 

 

It's rare for an AA to get a tank that got a bit of damage by him/herself. Say like drake and Tychus. So as caster, can't beat a tank with full items. I feel like Str heroes is kinda too strong.

I agree with you on tanks, but the way he worded it made it sound like an aa hero cannot 1v1 a caster, which is just not true, so i guess I will just give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he misworded it.

[hbogyt]

Pyre, sliptide, cont shard, bhm lesser extent cerebro and timesplitter

Loads of ways to ignore pyshical resist.

Only heroes i ever have trouble with as dps are ere justicar micro and drake

 

Thank you for reminding me of those items. They must have escaped my mind. I get owned by tier 2+ tanks on a regular basis.

 

TBH I think resist is decent. I think Darksteel needs to take longer to fully stack, which would make it less viable for lower HP heroes. Basically, if there's a Justi, Drake, Micro, LZ, or more than one STR hero building tanky, every AGI AA will go pyre early mid game and contam shard early late game. Unless they're way behind, it does pretty well.

 

And/or its stacks need to dissipate faster, so as to allow meaningful engage-disengage-reengage combat sequences. Even with Pyre and Shard, no AA can reasonably deter a tanky Justicar, Drake or Micro from doing their things, several times.

 

On another note, Nova's ult is too situational. Darpa is by far everyone's favourite. I suggest changing it to a crit damage passive akin to Dota 2's Phantom Assassin's Coup de Grace and having the Ill Intent passive only give crit chance.

 

There is a general lack of resist reducing spells/items in AoS as compared to Dota 2. I recommend porting over the Desolator with adjustments from Dota 2.

 

Also, when is Nighthawk cumming out?

[SourDiesel]

Personally, I think at 3500 DST is just too cheap of an item. I'd bump the price up to 4500K-5000K. At that price, Casters and AA heroes think long and hard about the lost damage items or going for a cheaper alternative for survivability. A price increase would probably move it back in a tanks build to a later game rather than an early item that instantly forces opposing AAs to go pyre/shard.

[atomheartman]

The price of DST is fine. If you want 5000price so it should be buffed. DST will not help you against burst damage in ganks anyway

[EterNity]

The armor from DST can be countered by prye, Shard, and Scythe.

 

The slow from DST can be countered by a single piece of CoA from your teammate.

 

Let's not jump onto the "Let's nerf this item because it makes me impossible to kill this tank as a carry one verse one" train too fast because AoS is a MOBA and you ain't suppose to solo kill every single living thing in the game.

[hbogyt]

The price of DST is fine. If you want 5000price so it should be buffed. DST will not help you against burst damage in ganks anyway

 

How many ulti's does it take to burst down a Justicar with just SHM, Organic and DST?

[atomheartman]

How many ulti's does it take to burst down a Justicar with just SHM, Organic and DST?

Wait while his R is activated. 2-3 ppls will kill him anyway.

[hbogyt]

I just tried a silly build to counter mass physical resist in a pub. I ended up with: Shinobi Style, Khali Blade, Black Hole Magnum, Energy Sabre, Sun Flare Gun and Galactic Defender, on Nova.

 

I one-shot Darpa and Cyprus.

 

It's clearly silly, but too hilarious not to share.

[Moo]

I just tried a silly build to counter mass physical resist in a pub. I ended up with: Shinobi Style, Khali Blade, Black Hole Magnum, Energy Sabre, Sun Flare Gun and Galactic Defender, on Nova.

 

I one-shot Darpa and Cyprus.

 

It's clearly silly, but too hilarious not to share.

How does khali, galactic, or energy saber counter physical resist? A silly build to counter mass physical resist is pyre, cerebro, stars fury, gravity edge, yamato, and timesplitter.

[GENLORDZ]

How does khali, galactic, or energy saber counter physical resist? A silly build to counter mass physical resist is pyre, cerebro, stars fury, gravity edge, yamato, and timesplitter.

Those items kinda do since they allow you to get more damage.

[hbogyt]

Nah I got up to 700 damage and upto 1k crit. With Hurty it can go higher. Then you hit them BHM. If they have no armor except DST. It could do up to 2k in one shot taking into account spell damage and crit. Then you Flare them. It basically doesn't give DST time to stack before it does all its damage. You then waltz away and come back in 4 seconds. What other nuker can do 2k damage every 4 seconds? Lol

 

Also, since I rushed E Sabre fast, I could flash farm with Nova's Q.

[ginosaji]

Nah I got up to 700 damage and upto 1k crit. With Hurty it can go higher. Then you hit them BHM. If they have no armor except DST. It could do up to 2k in one shot taking into account spell damage and crit. Then you Flare them. It basically doesn't give DST time to stack before it does all its damage. You then waltz away and come back in 4 seconds. What other nuker can do 2k damage every 4 seconds? Lol

 

Also, since I rushed E Sabre fast, I could flash farm with Nova's Q.

 

Except most Tanks will have at least 60% resist and 5500 hp without DST stacked, so the combo only does 800 damage if your numbers are correct. And you have no weapon speed, so there's no sustain dps there. That and you have zero HP and very little spell resist.

 

I could see how this works if you got fed, but anything works when you get fed. I've seen INT shadow work in pubs before because people are so bad.

[ginosaji]

The only good way to partially counter tanks early is pyre. The problem wih pyre is that it becomes almost entirely useless late game other than the weapon speed (which is obviously nice) because tanks have so much spell resist. Straight AGI/damage builds with a Contamination shard are the best counter to tanky heroes late game for Hard carries. AGI is best because it gives you the most for your money (weapon speed, armor, Damage). The ideal scenario would be for a semi-carry on your team to go pyre relatively early to help your team's mid game anti-tank, then for your Hard carry to pick up a contam shard late game after feeding on the squishies through early and mid game.

[hbogyt]

Except most Tanks will have at least 60% resist and 5500 hp without DST stacked, so the combo only does 800 damage if your numbers are correct. And you have no weapon speed, so there's no sustain dps there. That and you have zero HP and very little spell resist.

 

I could see how this works if you got fed, but anything works when you get fed. I've seen INT shadow work in pubs before because people are so bad.

 

But He can't negate the 1.25*700 spell damage from BHM nor the 1k- Flare shot. I normally ended up with just above 1.7k hp and 1.00 weapon speed with this build, but you can activate the Defender in a pinch. Regardless, I think this is fun to do in pubs where you one shot AA and int heroes.

[ginosaji]

But He can't negate the 1.25*700 spell damage from BHM nor the 1k- Flare shot.

 

Spell resist applies to item effects/actives too. He cannot negate the damage entirely as spell resist works on diminishing returns, but he can highly mitigate it (%65 or more for a late game tank).

 

Even with energy saber, you wouldn't have nearly as much energy as an INT hero with sunflare. I doubt the sunflare does any more than 500-600 damage.

[hbogyt]

Spell resist applies to item effects/actives too. He cannot negate the damage entirely as spell resist works on diminishing returns, but he can highly mitigate it (%65 or more for a late game tank).

 

Even with energy saber, you wouldn't have nearly as much energy as an INT hero with sunflare. I doubt the sunflare does any more than 500-600 damage.

 

I know. I thought you meant physical resist.