NeVeRWiN Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 So I have a question about LZ and his ulti. I stopped using LZ since imo they nerfed the crap out of him and changed his ulti and entire game style up. Anyways I'm back into LZ but am very confused on HOW his ulti works. I get the just of it, but am unclear on what, why and how it works. I get it gives shields temporarily, but that's it. My question is how does this ulti work and when is a good time to use it and what's the best way to utilize his ulti? Also are you able to augment his ulti with items like most other chars in the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 LZ is still one of the best characters in game imo. His ultimate gives him alot of benefits, and can also give your team the ability to survive with the shields from his ultimate. If your a full tank, you use the ultimate, by the time they kill the shields off, u'll most likely have regen the hp if you have carapace and can give you time to prepare other skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeVeRWiN Posted October 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 So it acts as a buffer for health almost? I see people use it at the end of the battle which I don't get. Are there benefits to using it after you have lost substantial health from an engagement? So the way I'm getting from what you said it you would lose health, but gain shields? Hopefully you regen the health lost from the ulti? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figgonson Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Shields are essentially temporary health, so they are a buffer. The best time to use it would be at the beginning of a teamfight when you have full health so that you get the maximum amount of shields. Using it towards the end of the teamfight is not as useful, but it will still certainly help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 You should use your ulti just as the enemies' carries are starting to deal their damage to your team, or before a big burst of damage on your carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 There are reasons for doing it early, and for doing it late. Early: if you do it before LZ takes damage, he gives more shields to allies around him, so you get a net total of more health for your team, than if you do it later, Late: Leech + Healing. Just like how an AA carry should not use galactic before they are at least half hp, so that they can leech back hp while shield is being destroyed, as opposed to not leaching anything back, seeing as they are at full hp, though their effective hp is getting reduced with each hit on the shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysi Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 There are reasons for doing it early, and for doing it late. Early: if you do it before LZ takes damage, he gives more shields to allies around him, so you get a net total of more health for your team, than if you do it later, Late: Leech + Healing. Just like how an AA carry should not use galactic before they are at least half hp, so that they can leech back hp while shield is being destroyed, as opposed to not leaching anything back, seeing as they are at full hp, though their effective hp is getting reduced with each hit on the shield. Early: As far as I know his ultimate works off of maximum health and not current health so I don't see why you would gain more from using it before you take damage. Late: I feel like not a lot of carries utilize leech anymore because the current leech items just arn't that strong or there is better items. If you have a Balrog on your team, then go for it. Also depends what healing heroes you might have on your team such as erekul, medic, egon, etc. Timing also can be separated or added with Spell Buffer's active(+500 shields to yourself and allies) which is a good item on LZ. In my experience in playing LZ in probably half of my 100 IH or so games, the best time to use your ultimate is as soon as you know the enemy team is committed to the team fight. If you use it too early, they can easily back out for the 8 or 12 seconds that it lasts and then engage when your team has lost a huge asset. Use it too late and you could have lost a team mate or the shield never ends up getting consumed and they lost a good chunk of health for naught. Identifying when the other team is committed can be very difficult. It is usually marked by enemies being caught out of position and unable to flee, or using certain abilities with long cool downs(An enemy vorpal surge and ulti into your team is a dead giveaway). I believe AwesomeClock came up with the strategy of just stacking straight health on LZ which improves his ultimate and his role as a tank. A good build therefore would be Miner's Goggles and building them into Korhal and Spell Buffer for team support items as well as improving your resistances and health, and then buying the health/Strength components of items like Organic, Lifetech, DST, etc. LZ's main role in IH is to use his W for utility in either trapping opponents, separating targets(pushing a team mate one way and enemy the other way when they are being chased), or even separating yourself from the outside world. Then he uses his Q for escape generally but sometimes as chase in combo with W. His R is his bread and butter though, usually he is picked to counter AoE heroes like Virgil and Vorpal with his ultimate. I would agree he is not as strong as he was prior to the item update. He use to be a first round pick or ban and now he can go through the whole draft process with nothing. Not sure if it is his lack of utility compared to other tanks/supports or that his ultimate is just not as strong as it was in the former meta. I am not a pro with LZ but I feel like I have played him enough in the competitive scene to have gained enough tips and tricks from better players to at least know what I am talking about. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeVeRWiN Posted October 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Would putting a pyre or any other dps items be useful on lz? As he is basically a tank but to utilize his passive e a bit more when he sollaces someone? Or should he be played as a straight tank with str items and ignoring any type of dps on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Would putting a pyre or any other dps items be useful on lz? As he is basically a tank but to utilize his passive e a bit more when he sollaces someone? Or should he be played as a straight tank with str items and ignoring any type of dps on him? As far as I know, a very good build is 5 tank/support items and pyre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figgonson Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 I always thought that his ulti worked off of his current health, not total. Am i wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 I always thought that his ulti worked off of his current health, not total. Am i wrong? You would be correct, it sacrifices some of his current hp, which is why there is a debate over whether to use it at the beginning or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeVeRWiN Posted October 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 You would be correct, it sacrifices some of his current hp, which is why there is a debate over whether to use it at the beginning or not. Has no one not tested the theory of max health or current for his ukti yet? On a side note, I had a feel it was primary tank with a pyre, being it gives the most weapon speed for a single item, as well as damage based upon str and his passive e. Thank you moo for confirmation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Has no one not tested the theory of max health or current for his ukti yet? On a side note, I had a feel it was primary tank with a pyre, being it gives the most weapon speed for a single item, as well as damage based upon str and his passive e. Thank you moo for confirmation What do you mean by your first sentence? I already told you that it sacrifices a percentage of his current hp, not maximum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeVeRWiN Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well I could have sworn someone said there was an argument about if it's on max or current. But I mis interpreted it. The argument is whether it's better before a battle or mid/late team fight battles. That's why I said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Lz can kill himself with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysi Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 So I just ran some tests on LZ ultimate. Full hp: Started with 4330, ultied to 5143 hp(Shields and hp). 4330*.75 + 4330*.25*1.75 = 5141.875 Health Lost: 1082.5 Shields Gained: 1894.375 So that's working correctly. Lowered hp: 735 out of 4330, ultied to 1350 hp(Shields and hp). 735*.75 + 735*.25*1.75 = 872.8125 However, in game, I came out with 1350 hp(Shields and hp). Tested Lowered hp again: 837 out of 4330, ultied to 1473 hp and shields If someone wants to test with two people to determine the actual amount of shields given to an ally at lower hp that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Lz can kill himself with it. This is because of the damage resist calculation. At set intervals, the game deals small amounts of damage to heroes to calculate damage resist, then heal it back very quickly. Whenever someone dies, but no one is given the kill (it just shows assists) it is because of resist calculation damage. Now if it says -name of whoever is playing lord z- has killed himself, that is a bug and should be reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysi Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 This is because of the damage resist calculation. At set intervals, the game deals small amounts of damage to heroes to calculate damage resist, then heal it back very quickly. Whenever someone dies, but no one is given the kill (it just shows assists) it is because of resist calculation damage. Now if it says -name of whoever is playing lord z- has killed himself, that is a bug and should be reported. It happened a lot in the past. Only happens now very rarely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 How many bugs have been reported without fix? Get me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 How many bugs have been reported without fix? Get me? Doesn't mean you shouldn't report it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 So I just ran some tests on LZ ultimate. Full hp: Started with 4330, ultied to 5143 hp(Shields and hp). 4330*.75 + 4330*.25*1.75 = 5141.875 Health Lost: 1082.5 Shields Gained: 1894.375 So that's working correctly. Lowered hp: 735 out of 4330, ultied to 1350 hp(Shields and hp). 735*.75 + 735*.25*1.75 = 872.8125 However, I came out with 1350 hp(Shields and hp). so basically the difference between doing it at 4k hp to 1k hp is around 300-400 shields..... something is very wrong here but i wont always ult at start anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysi Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 @Anarchy Well actually the difference is bigger than that for my examples. For whatever reason, you either gain more shields or lose less hp than you are suppose to at a lower hp. Since the UI restricts me from seeing how much actual shields I gain unless I have an ally, I'm assuming the full hp shields worked correctly and have no idea on the shields at lower hp. I might have to test again without Eternity, that might've somehow healed me? Lol. But I should've went down to 551 hp and gained 321.56 shields, instead I went to 1350 total. So either I'm gaining 799 shields(1k difference from full hp) with correct hp loss or losing less hp than I'm suppose to and still gaining more shields than I'm suppose to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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