AOS Mineral Interest Concept

[Hanedog]

So,

 

I have been thinking a bit about this and this it would be an awesome idea and a great way to add a bit more of a challenge to AOS. The idea is to allow for interest to be given to those who decide to not spend their minerals but allow them to save up for a bit. It would change buying patterns, the laning phase, risk assessment during ganks and counter ganks and would even put more emphasis on taking down Aeon and Levi. I believe all of this to be good things! Here is how it would work (obviously would need tweaking):

 

THE INTEREST CONCEPT:

Starting minerals unless leavers or talents are involved - 650

 

The Idea: Every 1 minute, if banked minerals is >500 (the 'initializer'), 1% of total minerals gets added to the 'bank'.

For programmers and nerds it looks like:

if (bank>=500)

{

bank=bank+bank*.01;

}

else()...

 

Reasoning: If the initializer limit is too high, then pushers and farmers gain far too many resources compared to support heroes like Egon and Sniper. The limit of 500 also allows for a player to make a few small beginning game purchases and still accrue interest at the first 1 minute game start mark (this is 1 minute after 1st creep wave spawns).

 

Game Changes:

1. Greater variety of early game mineral spending paths which means a complete change to the typical int/agi/str and pots/smoke that are commonly bought early on.

2. Heroes that stay in lane longer or successfully gank will gain larger reward if they choose to save the banked funds. This means there is more emphasis put on last hitting, denying and early game harass of lane enemies.

3. For pub games, gives higher importance to support healers

4. More aggressive decision making on Aeon and Levi timing- puts more emphasis on taking these monsters down and thus makes the typical game plan a little less 'typical.'

5. Rewards both individual and team play- a good thing for individuals in pubs with terrible players, a good thing for team play in IH

6. Has the potential for games to end sooner based on compounding interest concept and a players purchase timing.

 

 

The whole goal here is to reward smarter gameplay and decision making without tipping the game outcome too much one way or the other. Let me know what you guys think!

[CheekyKunt]

no

[Hanedog]

Cheeky- how bout you add some reasoning into your answer. People like you should be banned for unproductive forum input.

[Doom]

One of the largest late-game problems is that when everyone is maxed, there is nothing to do with your minerals. I think before you hugely increase that amount, someone better figure out what you spend them on.

[Moo]

The problem with this is that snowballing would be retarded with this concept. This would make late game come much, much faster, destroying some timings where heroes are supposed to be strong. This would not add strategy, it would just make everyone pick heroes that scale super well into lategame.

[Gwolla]

Say you have 3000 minerals and gain interest over a period of 10 min. That would grant you what? Around 320?

Thats like 1 kill worth. Why not buy an item for that 3k and kill 2 people instead?

[ginosaji]

I like your goal (helping supports), but I don't think incentivizing unspent minerals is a good idea. As it is GP10s build into some pretty usefull items; Korhal, Buffer, Symphonic Seed, COA, Chilling. All those items are support items and can be viably carried by the vast majority of support and even semi-support heroes. It's not uncommon for a support to have at least one, sometimes two GP10s for the first 30 minutes of a game. I think supports do relatively well with GP10s as is.

 

They are out-paced by late mid game, but that's how it is in every Moba and I think it's relatively balanced right now. A GP10 is 5 Min/10 seconds, so 300 Minerals/ten minutes. At thirty minutes in, that's about 900 minerals. At this point in the game carries usually have around 100-130 creeps and supports somewhere around 60-70. A difference of 40 creeps, assuming 30 minerals/creep is 1200. If you're a hard support or Tank you can get two GP10s and not worry about last hits at all really. Drake, Micro, Justicar can go both Treasure and Miner's, which helps them stay even.

[Skydie]

One of the largest late-game problems is that when everyone is maxed, there is nothing to do with your minerals. I think before you hugely increase that amount, someone better figure out what you spend them on.

 

Only in pubs.

[Hanedog]

So, to answer a few concerns about this concept-

 

DOOM-

One of the largest late-game problems is that when everyone is maxed, there is nothing to do with your minerals. I think before you hugely increase that amount, someone better figure out what you spend them on.

I think if we step back and look at the real reason there are such large amounts of minerals at endgame (as Skydie said, this is true really just in Pubs), we see that game length is the main contributing factor. This method SHOULD (I obviously haven't tried it) decrease game length because it adds one more layer of separation between bad, poor, mediocre, good, great, and best players. The key is to not get out of control with the interest given to the bank but 1-3% seems reasonable. And as I said, the faster the game ends, the less 'mineral runaway' we will see in each game.

 

Moo-

The problem with this is that snowballing would be retarded with this concept. This would make late game come much, much faster, destroying some timings where heroes are supposed to be strong. This would not add strategy, it would just make everyone pick heroes that scale super well into lategame.

 

I don't think this will cause a 'snowball' effect. Think about it like this... For the sake of the argument make Support heroes strong early game, tanks- midgame and agility/carries-late. If we look at each of these hero types as a metaphor for a kid on a swing each category gets shifted in a positive direction-

 

Support heroes- Big initial push with potential to have heavy impact on late game

Tanks- Consistant laning allows tanks to grow at a rate that is more on par with a carry's pace

Carries/Agi- early game won't be easy BUT, late game they will still rule if the game goes that long.

 

My point is that right now support viability drops off heavily towards the very late game as tanks and carries seem to rule the land. But with this suggested game change, Support can have the potential to affect early game enough to change the outcome of late game.

 

And I don't think agility ever has a problem being viable after around the ~15min mark so carries don't need to complain about this change.

[herman]

Even more so than the inherent snowballing this could/would cause, it promotes an idea that will cause newers players to adhere to. If this system or really anything close to it is added to the game it will cause every new player to not buy items at all until they can buy them outright. It will cause people to go shadow, nova, rancor, raynor, well lets face it really any agi or int based chars to have zero effectiveness in laning or in team fights. I understand that you are trying to make role-playing chars a more popular choice, but as gino said there are already gp10 items that effectively do the same thing as what you are suggesting. Think of it this way how many chars out there do you see getting wealth as a talent and then immediately getting lost treasure as their first item. Lost treasure and googles can be built into a variety of different options for a variety of different chars. Lets not promote ideas that cause feeding and lack of teamplay. This is my opinion though.

[CoolNoob]

Maybe another slot for items would be usefull

[Hanedog]

I see there may be some issues to work out but I don't think this is 'anti-teamwork.' The goal is to figure out ways to get the money you usually do (which includes teamwork) and laning longer and ganking together for more effective tower dives etc. doesn't seem to me to be anti-teamwork. In fact its the opposite. But yes, another item slot would be nice haha.

[Moo]

I see there may be some issues to work out but I don't think this is 'anti-teamwork.' The goal is to figure out ways to get the money you usually do (which includes teamwork) and laning longer and ganking together for more effective tower dives etc. doesn't seem to me to be anti-teamwork. In fact its the opposite. But yes, another item slot would be nice haha.

The quick, safest, most assured way to get money is to sit in a lane pushing the creeps, let your creeps go to their tower and kill some jungle, then go back to the lane and kill the next wave, then rinse and repeat (this is for heroes that can clear a jungle camp quickly solo without losing too much hp), and this is the opposite of teamwork, as you are sitting there farming while not taking objectives with your team.

[ginosaji]

Implementing something like this would also discourage building components of mid/late game items (assuming it was economically advantageous) which is an important part of any Moba.

[hbogyt]

This may be viable if heroes lose minerals on death.

[ginosaji]

So you encourage people to save up money, but also discourage them from doing so because they lose it on death? I simply don't see the point of the mineral interest with the advent of GP10s. The entire stated goal of the thread was to give support the ability to get decent farm. They already have that in the form of GP10s. Why add a redundant system that works against other basic mechanics and metas of the game?

 

If you don't think gp10s are effective enough, you'd be wrong for the most part. Most heroes can keep up to 60-80% pace with the average AA's farm through mid game depending on the hero, just with GP10s alone.