ANARCHY Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 the problem is and always has been that mineral bonus is too high & does not scale relatively to players lost; full team = 1 mineral every second (5 minerals per second combined) 4 people = 2 minerals every second (8 minerals per second combined) 60% increase 3 people = 3 minerals every second (9 minerals per second combined) 80% increase 2 people = 4 minerals every second (8 minerals per second combined) 60% increase 1 person = 5 minerals every second (5 minerals per second combined) i really cant fathom how anyone think this is somewhat even remotely plausible please fix it seriously we have had to put up with this for far too long and it will take you a matter of moments to change it worst case scenario revert back in the next patch if you feel its too much, but leaving it unattended for so long is just ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfb Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Fine as is. I love 1 vs 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekyKunt Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 its a feature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indo Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 how about an increase of 0.25, then 0.33 then 0.5 then1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muto Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 How about each team gets 5 minerals per second, divided between all the remaining players? Honestly this makes by far the most sense to me. Apocalyptic and MOTHER 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwarts Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 i have talked to eco consistently about how the leaver bonus is silly. I have expressed to him to keep the 5% buff to heroes but get rid of the money. The money is the real problem not the actual 5% buff. He knows its a problem but i dont think he has come up with a solution he wants to implement yet. He under stands there is no penalty for quitting games like there is in lol, And he doesnt want every game runied cause 1 or two people quit he still wants some sort of balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted October 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 i have talked to eco consistently about how the leaver bonus is silly. I have expressed to him to keep the 5% buff to heroes but get rid of the money. The money is the real problem not the actual 5% buff. He knows its a problem but i dont think he has come up with a solution he wants to implement yet. He under stands there is no penalty for quitting games like there is in lol, And he doesnt want every game runied cause 1 or two people quit he still wants some sort of balance. yeah but it doesn't stop him from balancing the mineral bonuses in the meantime then going foward from there, clearly as everyone can see 4v5 is a 60% increase in money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomulf Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Your argument is not completely valid because 5 money to 1 person is worth more than 3 each to 3 people, even though it's less in total, because it's concentrated on one person and they can get farther ahead. You can't just consider the total numerically. Ironsights 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Your argument is not completely valid because 5 money to 1 person is worth more than 3 each to 3 people, even though it's less in total, because it's concentrated on one person and they can get farther ahead. You can't just consider the total numerically. the main problem is every pub game 1-2 people drop early & this results in a much bigger then relative bonus & if you have less then 3 players it doesn't matter the game is over as you cant cover all lanes also i cant see how 5 money to 1 person is remotely useful, 5v1 is always fail unless enemy is complete noobs, if you think 5v1 is good is probably because you play shadow think your unstoppable get a good k/d then wonder why you lose and ruin everyone's game and waste everyone's time 5 team = 5 minerals every 5 seconds per player = 25 minerals every 5 seconds per team 4 team = 8 minerals every 5 seconds per player = 40 minerals every 5 seconds per team (as you can see here quite clearly 4v5 is way imbalanced they get almost twice the mineral gain for their whole team) 3 team = 9 minerals every 5 seconds per player = 45 minerals every 5 seconds per team 2 team = 8 minerals every 5 seconds per player = 40 minerals every 5 seconds per team 1 team = 5 minerals every 5 seconds per player = 25 minerals every 5 seconds per team Allstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 i have talked to eco consistently about how the leaver bonus is silly. I have expressed to him to keep the 5% buff to heroes but get rid of the money. The money is the real problem not the actual 5% buff. He knows its a problem but i dont think he has come up with a solution he wants to implement yet. He under stands there is no penalty for quitting games like there is in lol, And he doesnt want every game runied cause 1 or two people quit he still wants some sort of balance. It seems its only NA server issue. I mean really, each time when I go NA around 6-7pm NY time (when on EU there is not enough players anymore), its almost impossible to get 5v5 pub. There is always plenty of leavers. Some of them leaves at very beginning, have no idea why. Maybe someone took the only hero they can play, they don't want to play against some specific hero, or simply they recognize some enemy/their teammates which they don't want to play against or with. After next few minutes there another wave of leavers - RQ-ers. Its really like plague. I never had similar experience on EU. After 8pm London time there are many 5v5, long pubs going on. Maybe hour is factor here and there are more stupid kids online at specific time. Or because AoS is more popular on NA server, so there are more casual players there. Doesn't really matter, what I'm trying to say is that necessary change shouldn't be skipped only because one server mentality... GENLORDZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muto Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Post retracted. BestPlayer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwarts Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Yeah, but when I tried to convince people that EU and SEA was a better server it caused Hogwarts to get defensive and rage about how "NA beats EU every game". Although, I am personally amazed that he actually found something in the game to be imbalanced (especially something that effects pretty much pubs alone), that must be a first for him im not sure why your insulting me but reported! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muto Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 im not sure why your insulting me but reported! Calm down man, no need to take offense. Juts giving you a bit of a ribbing as you usually do complain about people complaining about balance. I'll remove the post if it offends you so much, but people in glass houses ought not to throws tones. I've seen you do a fair share of insulting people on this forum. Ironsights 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figgonson Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 If you really want to avoid leavers and RQer's you ahve to play at really weird hours of the night. Like 12:47 am. Only the hardcore players play that late, and i can usually get a couple of games with no shadow players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EterNity Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Its a feature. It's intended. The developers want you to be able to enjoy your game even all your teammates have quit because your enjoyment is the most important thing. You don't even have to surrender because no one likes to take a lose. With the leaver bonus, you can actually win by yourself since it takes away the weakest part of the game - teammates. I am all for buffing the leaver bonus a bit more so it will make it easier for team with only 3 players to win the game since they already have to cop with the handicapped situation and it is not really fair to them because they cannot choice their own teammates. It will be a good idea to reduce the re-spawn time as well since 3vs5 is extremely hard to achieve. I'd say for each leaver on the team, reduce the re-spawn time by 20% up to 60% will be a good balance. However, that's just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Its a feature. It's intended. The developers want you to be able to enjoy your game even all your teammates have quit because your enjoyment is the most important thing. You don't even have to surrender because no one likes to take a lose. With the leaver bonus, you can actually win by yourself since it takes away the weakest part of the game - teammates. I am all for buffing the leaver bonus a bit more so it will make it easier for team with only 3 players to win the game since they already have to cop with the handicapped situation and it is not really fair to them because they cannot choice their own teammates. It will be a good idea to reduce the re-spawn time as well since 3vs5 is extremely hard to achieve. I'd say for each leaver on the team, reduce the re-spawn time by 20% up to 60% will be a good balance. However, that's just my opinion. You just stated the real reason leaver bonus is a problem. The people that leave are the ones that bring the team down, yet the other team without leavers still has their weaklinks. The difference in money gain makes up for the lack of cc, waveclear, and the fact that the death timer is not scaled. The thing that makes it over the top is that the team with leavers normally has their good players still there, and the other team has their good players and the 1-2 feeders. This gets the enemy super fed off you noobs and the bonus money. The bonus money is the thing that pushes the problem over the top IMO though, so if you scale the money bonus to the amount of people like suggested I think that leaver bonus would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchacker Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 You just stated the real reason leaver bonus is a problem. The people that leave are the ones that bring the team down, yet the other team without leavers still has their weaklinks. The difference in money gain makes up for the lack of cc, waveclear, and the fact that the death timer is not scaled. The thing that makes it over the top is that the team with leavers normally has their good players still there, and the other team has their good players and the 1-2 feeders. This gets the enemy super fed off you noobs and the bonus money. The bonus money is the thing that pushes the problem over the top IMO though, so if you scale the money bonus to the amount of people like suggested I think that leaver bonus would be fine. I think you are right, I just had a game where the enemy team had 3 instant rages, then our team got stomped by tosh and mk as they fed on our noob ling, in the end we just couldn't hold back against a fed tosh with the pushing power of mk to back him up. It was a sad game indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buggy Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 i have talked to eco consistently about how the leaver bonus is silly. I have expressed to him to keep the 5% buff to heroes but get rid of the money. The money is the real problem not the actual 5% buff. He knows its a problem but i dont think he has come up with a solution he wants to implement yet. He under stands there is no penalty for quitting games like there is in lol, And he doesnt want every game runied cause 1 or two people quit he still wants some sort of balance. A 60% increase in income to each player for the loss of one player is an extraordinary "balance" though. If you're winning a game decisively, and two people leave from the other team, sure I can understand some kind of balance taking place, but right now against certain hero comps your decisive victory becomes tedious because suddenly their shadow has crit gear, a shinobi, and a galactic defender and their gravitus has organic, lifesuit, and warp shard, and etc. I agree with you that the income gain is the problem, but it's also magnified by the bonus they get stacking with the items they can more rapidly afford.. Right now if you play in pubs push comp is the only reasonable team comp unless you want dragged out games that start 5v5, one team is getting decimated, and then it becomes a 3v5 where an AA, a gravitus, and a vergil are suddenly far outgearing you. You still win, but it's extremely tedious and doesn't make sense because they were performing very poorly before they got the bonus, but suddenly are huge force to be reckoned with, where in each fight you have to outplay them by a much wider margin than you should have to considering how poorly they were doing just 5 minutes ago to come out on top. Leaver bonus is the most hated mechanic in AOS but it's loved by certain people who never play pubs because they want the pub experience to be as bad as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overkill Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Remove the mineral bonus, all it's doing now is ruin a good game. One minute your destroying them suddenly 3 of them rage and the other 2 are left with a huge bonus and you end up losing the game. This is so unethical and unpractical and I question why this was even implemented in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 im in favour of keeping the leaver bonus otherwise pubs would be ruined just make the minerals scale correctly pchacker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buggy Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 im in favour of keeping the leaver bonus otherwise pubs would be ruined just make the minerals scale correctly Can you prove that pubs would be ruined without the mineral bonus? Seems like it should be tested rather than assumed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted October 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Can you prove that pubs would be ruined without the mineral bonus? Seems like it should be tested rather than assumed. i said to keep the mineral bonus please read before you make assumptive comments, but currently it gives 60 -80% more then it should if you have 3-4 players on a team full team = 1 mineral every second (5 minerals per second combined) 4 people = 2 minerals every second (8 minerals per second combined) 60% increase (you lost only 1/5th of your team why do you suddenly get 2 minerals per second instead of 1.25?) 3 people = 3 minerals every second (9 minerals per second combined) 80% increase (you lost only 2/5th of your team why do you suddenly get 3 minerals per second instead of 1.67?) 2 people = 4 minerals every second (8 minerals per second combined) 60% increase 1 person = 5 minerals every second (5 minerals per second combined) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomulf Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Your argument is not completely valid because 5 money to 1 person is worth more than 3 each to 3 people, even though it's less in total, because it's concentrated on one person and they can get farther ahead. You can't just consider the total numerically. Anarchy please read please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANARCHY Posted October 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Your argument is not completely valid because 5 money to 1 person is worth more than 3 each to 3 people, even though it's less in total, because it's concentrated on one person and they can get farther ahead. You can't just consider the total numerically. Anarchy please read please. i did, found it useless, but if you insist that i reply; you cant just consider that 1 person will play well with the added concentrated bonus if the rest of his team leaves, by the same analogy that you used your argument is not completely valid now please consider posting something of value next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buggy Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 ANARCHY, I understand what you're saying, but I'm disagreeing with your claim that completely removing the mineral bonus would ruin pubs. It's untested so there's no way to say that, all we know is that currently, the mineral bonus is harming pubs. It would be better to completely remove the mineral gain and then if necessary, add a small one, than to keep the mineral gain in a nerfed form, since if it's still bullshap, it'll take years for the devs to adjust it again. I'd rather having less players be an actual disadvantage in a pub than having people tell me "i'll leave so you guys get the money!" With the money bonus removed, the team with leavers would still have bonuses to their damage and durability, and because of the nature of pubs, could still win if they outplay the team with no leavers/feed on the weakest links of other team. Leaver bonus shouldn't be balanced for IH it should be balanced for pubs, since that's where it applies, and in pubs if the 5 man team is all really good and you have a leaver, you should lose, but if the 5 man team has weak links and you have a leaver, you might win. Right now this is how it is, except it's way too exacerbated, and needs to be toned down a whole lot, so that teams who are losing badly don't suddenly find themselves at the advantage BECAUSE they had leavers. If you are already losing a game and then someone leaves, you shouldn't suddenly be winning, you should still be disadvantaged because you were already losing the game before your teammates left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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