Darpa v. Zera

[MrGrim]

I've been playing a lot of darpa recently and hes quickly become one of my favorite heroes. He's extremely versatile and I believe if you play him right he can fit any lineup and go toe to toe with any hero.

 

The only major problem I have is Darpa vs Zera in lane. Early stages darpa owns but when mid game comes around and zera has ocelots, another item and ulti up it gets pretty difficult. I've been playing him in the offlane/short(?) and if he catches you out of tower range, he can burst down darp pretty easy. His jump can also get negated with a planar but that goes mostly to the skill of the zera player. My q is this, come midgame are you supposed to abandon the lane and go farm? Whats the mechanic supposed to be in a darpa vs zera fight out say somewhere near levi or aeon? Also, should I go way more tanky than dps to survive his burst in bubble? Thanks guys.

[SayMyName]

First of all u need to start with understanding its a moba - 5v5 game. Dealing with zera depends greatly on having a team. Both darpa and zera are hard carries, both are really strong lategame carries, i can say that zera is one of the strongest lategame carries with farm. It doesnt mean u cant beat zera. Both of the heroes have their strenghts and weaknesses. Zera is dominant 1v1 hero, and assasinn with farm, but truly his skillset is more about teamfight presenance. The outcome of battle can highly depend on if ur team have good composition and approachs correctly in teamfight to zeratul and composition of his team. Any late or even midgame correct scenario of moba is about outcome of 5v5 teamfights, (maybe not any/every but at the most time.There are ofc other options, strategies, like for example splitpushing etc, but i would not recommend splitpushing vs zera, this have highly chance of failing in most scenarios, zera will just assasinate single target -punish for not grouping up, or will be favoured forced 5v4 teamfight with zera bubble, both leading into push)

 

Zera is high disabler, initiator. Downside of bubble is that itself it doesnt deal any dmg, that u can catch ur allies as well as ur enemies, and simply zera is not immortal in it, it doesnt give any resistance, and he himself doesnt have any resistance from skillset. His only defensive capabilities are bubble disable or planar which is position changer/added mobility value, and tankyness u will get from items (and in some degree short amount of time on jump q, and invis that is ez countered by chrono/scans/wards- those two i dont even count, they dont have much value and impact). Once zera bubbles or jump he basicly commits himself and a teamfight.

 

Like versus any initiator with aoe disable ur team needs to spread. If zeratul catches in the bubble >3 heroes of ur team u

a) doing something wrong or

b) enemy team is playing really good with forcing situation like this

 

1) In teamfight .... .. .. . . -> no no no -> before teamfight! And at any point in teamfight u need to be spreaded, thats already said, right? Thats the first thing.

Now i will tell u second more advanced thing, u ready?:

 

2) u need to know ur key heroes, that cant be catched in bubble, for this u need to understand value of heroes, their possibilites, and learn how to position properly. One or two heroes will be always catched in the bubble (if not skill would be useless), u need to know what heroes can be catched, heroes that can survive, or survive tank enough dmg from zera (wasting his dmg output on tank as an example), heroes who skills can be delayed in time with teamfight.

 

Hint: heroes that are key for u, are generally the most : a) ur own dps'er - carry, or heroes with huge dmg potential that are not tanky b) disablers/supports

 

What is happening if zera dont catch enemy carry and enemy support/disablers? Ill explain u:

Enemy carry makes, provides dmg at same time as zera does (even trade)

Supports/disablers will disable zera, nuke him down in bubble/save allies- this can be done in aos in so many ways i could write like half screen wall of text- for fast few examples : taser zera before bubble, using sword breaker, lockboxing people, using impact dial, using bola of ur boros etc etc

As u see and i said u need at least decent comp, some supports some tanks etc that have their role and do job. Everybody fulfilling each other. For example good hero vs zeratul to have in a team is ghost, one of most core examples (but there are more, believe me)- long range, stun, scan, burst, nuke dmg, even in aoe, that can be done in bubble or even outside of it.

 

In most perfect scenario it will comes down to

a) who have more farm

b) who have better composition compared/vs other

c) took better map and game control

 

U need to know also that huge part of being possible to have good positining at/before teamfights, comes to c) map awarness and map control.

If enemy zera, or 2-3 enemy heroes are able to come from behind and bubble easly those key targets of ur team-> propably ull lose teamfight. Every lost teamfight is big advantage gain/loss/swing. Spreading, learning position, and keep attention to ur position all the time, even at teamfight going on, comes with experience and willingesss, being aware. Thats being said.

 

Now when it comes to u playing carry, and more certainly - darpa.

 

Generally when playing as a carry u need to know timing of coming into teamfight and dishing dmg. U need to be safe-> If u die- dmg is lost for ur team.

Generally best timing is when enemies unleashed their first skills, have cds, lost disables, on someone like ur tank or initiator or at worse scenario someone else, some unfortunate soul -> like one of ur supports.

 

From reasons mentioned above- main carry is not initiator - its too risky, carry will die in most scenarios and u lose dmg then.

Both darpa and zera should be played as main carries. Any hard carry is candidate of being main carry.

 

So as darpa - u wait behind , zera iniatiate on somebody - u come focus him when he focuses somebody else in bubble and u kill him.

Or when ur initiator iniatited on zera - for example pull/throw/bola -> u silence zera and kill him.

 

Darpa strenghts : MOBILITY, debuffs/slows/direct dmg steroids/SILENCE

 

 

 

Basicly u need to understand game with ur team on at least this lvl.

 

Darpa have way better laning. Drastic diffrence in strenght of early-laning phase. Darpa is dominant laner, can make kill lanes, or solo kill 1v1 at lane. He have good nuke q, slows, silence. With lvl 6 - escape/mobility and he is range.

 

Zera on the other hand is really weak laner, meele. no really high amount of dmg without items. Only good skill with enough value for laning is planar.

 

Countering hard carries in moba in many scenarios comes down to shutting down their laning phase (esp often when its weak, and they are strong late) and ganking/killing them in teamfights in midgame when they have no farm from early game. U need to crush zera laning phase. Or gank him from time to time in jungle. Crushing hard carry laning phase doesnt mean being over aggressive and suiciding. For example in case of zera as ur range darpa is having truesight ward/scan and harassing zera when he tries to come for lasthit. Winning lane often means if ur farming, leading cs and enemy cant do this. If ur outharassing opponents, trading good dmg then this advantages can leave to a kill with time (not talking about no knowledge suciding). Proper item selection, like not building glasscannons on every hero on ur team, having disables/supports items in team, like mentioned before : taser or sword breaker, or lockbox etc. Is often key, essential, very helpul.

 

But basicly and generally speaking to win games in mobas u need team knowledge and team work/coordination.

 

So for more knowledge - ur team need to know strenghts of heroes, how they work, know the timings, and use them.

 

 

Thats why zera is considered by pubbers in pub "op hero" (lack of knowledge, and team, correct play)

And in competive, ih enviroment not that strong, very risky hero, with high skill gap (basicly u NEED to make that good bubble so u can win teamfight , and vs good opponents, if they'll play good, they wont allow u do it)

[ginosaji]

Lane Against A Zera: Get Ts Ward And Harrass Away.

[Moo]

Lane Against A Zera: Get Ts Ward And Beat Him With A Spoon.

Is this what you meant?

[ginosaji]

Indeed

[Adversary]

Or just have your side lanes come gank him? After all it is a team game, so use your team to your advantage...

[kashyfla]

I am a elite Zera player and I can tell you that as Zeratul you need to pray on the weak. Going for tanks is straight dumb. Planar to towers early and mid game and kill the weak during this time. Good food during this time is:

 

Rancor

Nova

Raynor

or any dps heros with range.

 

Also always initiate well with Zeratul cause a bad bubble means a wasted bubble. As much as I can tell every player whether noob or veteran, always watch you mini map cause its the all holy visual when to gank or be ganked.

[zeeeend]

I am a elite Zera player

good food during this time is:

 

Rancor

Nova

Raynor

 

WTF makes you elite ? I want to be a elite player as well me so jelly.

 

And those 3 heroes you name are all pretty good counters to zera, they all can reveal you. Ghost and raynor can both maim/1shot you when you dont ulti them and they stand outside. And nova can reveal you and kill you with stunknife early game, as she outranges you severly in laning phase. So you gotta ulti her or you will have an impossible time against her.

[MrGrim]

but i would not recommend splitpushing vs zera, this have highly chance of failing in most scenarios, zera will just assasinate single target -punish for not grouping up, or will be favoured forced 5v4 teamfight with zera bubble, both leading into push)

 

I think that was my major problem. Against other heroes you can split push easy with darpa since no one is truly as shutdown as zera's bubble. If the Zera is good I changed it up, stayed behind my tank, 5 man pushed and we won pretty easy. I also incorporated phase cloak which I didn't think was necessary before but if reflexes are fast than it counters the ult nicely.

 

Lane Against A Zera: Get Ts Ward And Harrass Away.

 

I often do that but there's a new meta almost. If a zera comes in for last hits early game with an archon/ultra in tow, taking potshots draws agro and early those siege creeps hit hard. He can manage a semi-decent cs if he comes out at those times not to mention the neutral cycles. New seige guys help out zera and other poor laners a ton.

 

Or just have your side lanes come gank him? After all it is a team game, so use your team to your advantage...

 

If I'm part of a good team the zera is a complete nonfactor. Key word good team. A good support player in aos can be hard to come by sometimes and when you get paired up, the lane is a breeze and the game snowballs. Unfortunately in pubs it's kinda rare to have that luxury.

[ginosaji]

I often do that but there's a new meta almost. If a zera comes in for last hits early game with an archon/ultra in tow, taking potshots draws agro and early those siege creeps hit hard. He can manage a semi-decent cs if he comes out at those times not to mention the neutral cycles. New seige guys help out zera and other poor laners a ton.

 

I agree, the siege creeps help weak laners, but they are only every five waves. The real threat zera poses in pubs is his ability to snipe noobs so easily, hence getting fed. There are a few people that play only zera in pubs and when they are on I like to pick something that directly counters zera. Cow, Ranc, Raynor, ling, etc are all great counters.

 

To be honest an even match (neither the Darpa nor the zera are fed) Darpa should win 1v1. He should easily out lane the zera. With Stunknife and your silence you have a good 6.5 seconds on the zera before he can turn and ult. If he's one shotting you in his Ult he's either fed, it's super late game, or you're building glass cannon.

[EterNity]

I am a seasonal darpa players. I only play in winter.

[SayMyName]

WTF makes you elite ? I want to be a elite player as well me so jelly.

 

And those 3 heroes you name are all pretty good counters to zera, they all can reveal you. Ghost and raynor can both maim/1shot you when you dont ulti them and they stand outside. And nova can reveal you and kill you with stunknife early game, as she outranges you severly in laning phase. So you gotta ulti her or you will have an impossible time against her.

 

I agree with this, that those heroes are great vs zera - IF u play them correctly. U need to play correctly vs zera to be winning (but that accounts to the rest of games and compositions too, even if u have possible counter/proper counters). And for this as I mentioned before, it comes down to positioning (which u need to gain, comes from other aspects explained before and u need to care and be aware all the time) If zera comes from behind and bubble ur supports like mentioned before : raynor, ghost (that are also even suishy and very essential) then yes, ull lose teamfight almost for sure (unless ur carry is superfat with rest of guys not catched in bubble, compared to zera and rest, and u can still win vs them, counter them with that, but thats not going to happen often - especially in even game)

 

I often do that but there's a new meta almost. If a zera comes in for last hits early game with an archon/ultra in tow, taking potshots draws agro and early those siege creeps hit hard. He can manage a semi-decent cs if he comes out at those times not to mention the neutral cycles. New seige guys help out zera and other poor laners a ton.

 

 

If I'm part of a good team the zera is a complete nonfactor. Key word good team. A good support player in aos can be hard to come by sometimes and when you get paired up, the lane is a breeze and the game snowballs. Unfortunately in pubs it's kinda rare to have that luxury.

 

I cant help u much with this first sentence. I agree archon/ultra change/implement is completly bad mechanic, to be more precise badly balanced (cause having once a while pushing creep- that helps u to push is super good concept of mechanic, u just need to balance it out properly, like with any pushing/taking towers/finishing game mechanic that is HUGE part of moba, what it makes the moba). I cant help u with that, all u can do is spam devs with friends about the issue.

 

To the second sentence - thats another thing many people (dont wanna sound badly saying mostly pubbers) struggles to understand- that its moba, they are playing moba, its 5v5, its strategy game, and they keep analyzing it badly in 1v1 scenario and then keep being suprised and frustrated they are not winning games/esp vs some based situations. Its the first Core thing a player of moba need to understand to be able to be better - thats why i started my whole post with this. Solution of this problem is not crying, blaming, keep ignoring the fact its 5v5 and try to make/change it to 1v1 game, but accept it and start playing with teams, finding teams, friends, community, playing more competetive - then ull start winning, ull understand better (or at least it will be possible) and properly the game. Its about taking this step - moving, growing up, and evolving. If not, proper solution is- u go to another game that will fit u better, will fit better ur needs (example single player games, multiplayer/non team oriented games)