Leaver buff

[smorgishborg]

It needs to go, I don't understand the point of it. If someone can explain why it exists that'd be great.

[MOTHER]

To motivate the team with the less players to stay in the (pub) game, otherwise there is no reason to not just leave the game when you are one or more players short.

[smorgishborg]

I feel at this stage in the game, the items are more powerful. So between the "5%" buff and the mineral buff that you get, the minerals are substantially more beneficial and make the team with fewer people much more stronger than anticipated.

[MOTHER]

Even with the mineral buff and strength buff, nothing can truly substitute another player. The team with more players will almost always win, unless they are incompetent and/or make a mistake(s). The leaver bonus as is is fair IMO.

[Grantypoo]

What I tend to find against a team of leavers is that your team of 5 vs a team of 3 normally decide to quit playing together as a team. The mentality that you outnumber the other team dominates, and you start taking risks. Just like you wouldnt go out alone in a lane against 5, you REALLY shouldnt do it against 3 because the other guy has indeed gotten more money and has the leaver bonus. You are NOT going to win a 1v1 in most cases in that situation, so play it safe.

 

When the 5 man keeps playing well together and doesnt act like just because they've got the number advantage they will win, then the leaver bonus doesnt overwhelm. But it's when you feed the one good player on the other team and he can snowball like crazy that the leaver bonus becomes quite a pain.

 

I see the same thing from both sides. When I've got a 2 spot leaver bonus and the other team just starts playing poorly, it's even easier to destroy them and snowball hard. But when the other team plays well together and keeps it a team game and uses their heads, the leaver bonus doesnt make it easy to kill them.

[ANARCHY]

the problem is and always has been that mineral bonus is too high & does not scale relatively to players lost;

 

full team = 1 mineral every second (5 minerals per second combined)

4 people = 2 minerals every second (8 minerals per second combined)

3 people = 3 minerals every second (9 minerals per second combined)

2 people = 4 minerals every second (8 minerals per second combined)

1 person = 5 minerals every second (5 minerals per second combined)

 

nor does it scale when you get kills, you are still rewarded the same for killing someone with 5x bonus as you are someone with no bonus

[zeeeend]

But when the other team plays well together and keeps it a team game and uses their heads, the leaver bonus doesnt make it easy to kill them.

Ok i found out this l33t trick. As the team with 3 you play defensively.

Either you can hold 3 v 5 or you can hold 2 v 5(turtling at t2 or even t3 is ok as well).

If you can hold the lane 2 v 5 it's instant gg, third player goes pushing another lane forcing them to lose a tower or to split. If they split its a 1v2 and 2 v3 with leaver bonus you should win the 2 v 3 scenario, the 1 v 2 should just go another lane or help for a 3 v 3. If they go 1 v 1 and 2 v 4 the 1v1 should win and continue pushing.

The bad 3v5 scenario is just defending till 40 minute mark then you should have a fed carry from leaver bonus and force engagements and win, if they really have insane comp split-push tactic like mentioned before. Force the 1v1 or 2v3 were you should win 1 of the engaments

[Allstar]

If leavers bonus goes away then I may never get any more kills. :(

[Hogwarts]

the 5% can stay its the money thats the issue

[smorgishborg]

Agreed, the mineral buff is what lets them get ahead.

[akanna]

The minerals is the part that is needed though, you are down in players, and thus down in CC down in farm and unable to properly last hit in lanes. The bonus stats could easily be removed. Honestly though I think its better to rework bonus stats.

 

Simple fix:

Leave gold alone change the bonus: down 1 player +5% 2 players +5%?(could be -5% to offset +2 gold) 3 players -25% 4 players -50%) basically if its a 1/2 v 5 gimp them so bad they want to start a new game, but 3/4 v 5s are fine. The debuff is for wasting everyones time in 1/2v5 (really the game should auto surrender for you or allow everyone else to leave without any penalty).

 

Obviously 3v5s will still be a toss up area but to be fair you shouldn't loose a 3v5 in the first place even if they do get +5% (they should not be getting +10% like they do now). Constantly clear creep in all lanes so they have to choose to defend towers or join engagements and kite away if odds are against you (you just need to keep them focused on you and not stoping creep waves, you don't actually have to fight them). Harass them all day in lanes to bait them into chasing (so creep waves can kill towers) and keep wards everywhere so they cant jump you with 2-3 heros. Creep snowball is super OP.

 

Or you can just as easily go as a pack of 5 and crush towers 1 by one till they are forced back to tier 3, then farm the map and bosses till you are ready to crush them. When you are ready have creep waves in all lanes and have all 5 of you rush the same tower (so they either rally to defend that or fight creep waves at others). As soon as you get 1-2 inhibitors creep will finish game for you easy. So yeah the way to win a 3v5 is to not focus on teamfights at all and let the creep punish them for not having enough CC to both stop them and fight you. Conversely you loose if you engage in too many 1v1 2v2 fights and feed them.

 

The problem right now is you get both +gold and +stats for being down, making it very appealing for noob carrys to stay in and feed on people in 1-2 v 5s. Im all for winning a 3/4 v 5 with good teamwork, but 1/2 v 5s should really just be gg not here's +20/25% or and 4/5x gold.

 

EDIT:

Not going to lie most people loose 3v5s because they get sloppy from "outnumbering" them taking stupid risks and getting greedy or abandoning teamwork to spread across the map farming (making them easy targets). Whereas the team of three works together constantly and systematically feeds on the larger team roaming as a pack unless they have to split up to defend towers, in teamfights they always focus down the same targets one at a time to even numbers out. You should ward the entire map and should not fight without at least 1-2 hero advantage in 3v5 to avoid feeding them yet i constantly see people fight 1v1 or 2v2 or get picked off in jungle or ganked in lane and get mad they lost later crying leaver bonus OP when the real issue was the team of 3 had better teamwork.

[Eliwan]

I would change the gold distribution such that it's (5 / # of players) gold per second if that could be done, and leave the buff alone.

 

The real problem with the leaver bonus, from what I see, is that the bonus gold is not proportional to the number of leavers-- it increases each player's income by 1/s for each leaver.

[smorgishborg]

Seriously, leaver buff still needs to go. It ruins games.

[TaxHaven]

I love it. I make private games, add 4 AI to my team, then open to pub.

[ChoJo]

Well.. in IH if someone lag out, ppl recreate the game. So , the leaver bonus is all about pub scene and AA win game in pub, because there scrub so freaking often. That being said, I find making hero stronger AND add mineral is a overkill... Imo, we should only let hero %more stronger, no need more mineral.

[MOTHER]

I think the buff is perfect now. It only gets out of hand when a buffed AA hero is fed, they snowball so flobing fast. But really, assuming all players are competent, there is no reason to lose against 3 if you are in a 5 man team. Just focus on taking out their base, build to counter their heroes and don't go out solo.

[GENLORDZ]

I was in NA for a pub match last week... Then there was a party of 3 in my team, they were chinese. One of them was lagging so bad, all 3 of them quit. in the end it was a 2v5, I was a nova and my teammate was a kerrigan. In the end some of them got mad at the opponent's team. With a marine king pushing 2nd tier tower when i was taking their 3rd tier tower, that marine king felt so proud cause we let him take towers:/,then i proceeded to finish their whole team off with critic nova. And they blamed the Leaver's Bonus when it was the money that made me strong... My end K/D was 34-5 cause I failed horribly early game by rushing just a lethal barbed.

[EterNity]

Once again with this topic and once again nothing will be done.

 

I am glad that our developers are listening to the community feedback very closely and make changes accordingly.

[Allstar]

Why not just make it stronger? 2v5 games take too long, just let the team of 2 get uber strength for their commitment to the game and resistance to following their other 3 teammates. They should be rewarded for perseverance and dedication. I say, double it all, money, damage, HP, creep count. These guys are top class and they deserve to win the game based on merit alone. Especially if they are Shadow. A nobleman would GG out in a 2v5 against a Shadow, because Shadow is the most heroic and honorable of all heroes, only scholars play them and maintain positive attitudes to their teammates and most importantly, their adversary. GG, Shadow player. G.... G.... may you bless all those 2v5 games with your warm comfort.

[Spooky]

If someone still doesn't see anything wrong about mineral gain boost, then pls try play 5v3 against heroes like Drake or Balrog. Both heroes has unique quality which give them additional damage output from their HP pool. So they become extremely tanky with huge damage output at the same time. Moreover Drake passive gives him more health with every kill or assist - and he will get them a lot. So after first 15 minutes of game Drake is already fed as hell and can melt any squishy heroes in seconds. Same with Balrog. Problem is - they have 3 times higher net worth than any other hero from enemy team. And not because of good play, but because of stupid mechanics.

 

Mineral gain boost breaks entire meta game:

-tanky heroes can tank almost everything

-int carries can one-shot enemy agi/int heroes

-dps heroes can melt enemy tanks extremely fast

 

Why its happening? Many people already posted about it in the past, so let me quoted this again:

the problem is and always has been that mineral bonus is too high & does not scale relatively to players lost;

 

full team = 1 mineral every second (5 minerals per second combined)

4 people = 2 minerals every second (8 minerals per second combined)

3 people = 3 minerals every second (9 minerals per second combined)

2 people = 4 minerals every second (8 minerals per second combined)

1 person = 5 minerals every second (5 minerals per second combined)

 

nor does it scale when you get kills, you are still rewarded the same for killing someone with 5x bonus as you are someone with no bonus

Make mineral gain even for both teams and it will fix uneven match ups:

4 people: 1.25 min/sec

3 people: 1.66 min/sec

2 people: 2.50 min/sec

1 person: 5.00 min/sec

[Moo]

If someone still doesn't see anything wrong about mineral gain boost, then pls try play 5v3 against heroes like Drake or Balrog. Both heroes has unique quality which give them additional damage output from their HP pool. So they become extremely tanky with huge damage output at the same time. Moreover Drake passive gives him more health with every kill or assist - and he will get them a lot. So after first 15 minutes of game Drake is already fed as hell and can melt any squishy heroes in seconds. Same with Balrog. Problem is - they have 3 times higher net worth than any other hero from enemy team. And not because of good play, but because of stupid mechanics.

 

Mineral gain boost breaks entire meta game:

-tanky heroes can tank almost everything

-int carries can one-shot enemy agi/int heroes

-dps heroes can melt enemy tanks extremely fast

 

Why its happening? Many people already posted about it in the past, so let me quoted this again:

 

Make mineral gain even for both teams and it will fix uneven match ups:

4 people: 1.25 min/sec

3 people: 1.66 min/sec

2 people: 2.50 min/sec

1 person: 5.00 min/sec

I agree, please implement the above, leaver bonus should make gains even, not more than what they should have been.

[MOTHER]

Increasing the bounty on buffed heroes that are killed (bounty adjusted according to how many leavers) is also a step in the right direction. I think giving the non-leaver team more bounty for killing/assisting will resolve some of the mineral disparity.

[Moo]

Increasing the bounty on buffed heroes that are killed (bounty adjusted according to how many leavers) is also a step in the right direction. I think giving the non-leaver team more bounty for killing/assisting will resolve some of the mineral disparity.

I do not think that this should be implemented, because the fact that you are a higher percentage of your team means that the other team, who killed you, gets more objectives for your death because it is a larger part of the team that was just killed. I didn't say that perfectly, but hopefully you got my idea.

[CoolNoob]

Just not gonna happen

[Darkangel]

Hero Attack has worked it out to give small buffs in lots of different areas: Movement speed, Life, Timescale, Building Bonus etc. etc. Works out pretty well. Can't say one is consistently overpowered. I have won on both sides in pubs. Obviously ih more people is better but not by a tremendous amount. Just some thoughts for you.

 

Note: They do not get a mineral bonus.