Jump to content

Most Broken Heroes With Taser?


lOvOl

Recommended Posts

I seriously don't understand why this item has not been changed/removed from the game because of it being THE ONE ITEM THAT RULES THEM ALL. Nevertheless, some heroes are more broken with a mossberg taser than others.

 

At the top of the list is probably Unix. Unix with a taser is especially broken because you need a taser to counter Unix and there is no escape from his fungal -> brain sap combo if you get tasered first. It is an instant kill with no counter on any hero with less than 4000 health and around 40-50% spell resist. It simply comes down to who tasers who first and even then if you taser unix first you need to kill him before he can taser you back. Of course, most Unix players don't abuse taser on him, but good ones do so that their kill method is uncounterable in any 1v1 situation. If taser was removed, then there would obviously need to be either a nerf to Unix's ultimate or else you would always need a lockbox handy against a team with Unix around, but this is certainly preferable to Unix with a taser as things stand now.

 

Second on the list of broken heroes with taser is Shadow. Items like electric mantle (which recently got a nerf in terms of its utility for some reason) are rendered useless as a counter to Shadow because you can't actually use it if you get tasered by shadow first. So again the only way to realistically counter Shadow with a taser is to taser him first. There are absolutely terrible players out there who despite being terrible are experienced enough to know how to abuse taser on Shadow and they think they are the best thing since sliced bread because they can get godlike every game by simply staying out of fights early on and jungling, then showing up in the midgame with a phase cloak and a taser and later a pyre. Even if taser gave no bonus damage it would still be a broken item for what it does for Shadow.

 

Nova with a taser is pretty broken as well, especially since she can taser you first and whomp on you with her critical hits, then proceed to finish you off with her psychic web which is essentially like a secondary silence on top of that. Takes a bit more skill to pull off than abusing taser on Shadow, but it is still pretty dumb if you ask me.

 

DARPA can be pretty annoying with a taser too because unlike his grenade which is not instant, a DARPA player can taser you first, lay 3 stacks of vendetta on you, then grenade you and you are pretty much dead after that due to literally being silenced for up to 10 seconds straight. No counter at all to this other than to taser him first or have a teammate chase him away.

 

Vespus is also broken as a nitro retrofit and a taser simply allows him to run at you, taser, and keep you slowed and by the time taser wears off you should be dead. No running away with better speed, or warp shard or impact dial or whatever but you are simply just dead.

 

Now, I don't want to get in a balance debate here about whether any of these heroes are overpowered on their own, however, I think there is a fair debate about how game breaking taser continues to be with some heroes, even in spite of the small nerf to its damage amplification recently. Ihan crystal used to be extremely broken on several heroes and useless on others, and now it is not really too imbalanced an item and can be used effecitvely on a wider variety of heroes, so hopefully a change to taser would be made that addresses these core concerns. On the old forum, I put out some suggestions and I am sure the devs read the post so there is no need to bring them up again, so I am just starting this topic really to discuss why taser is a game item and on what heroes and how it could be changed to be an item that is fun like impact dial, rather than just being a cheesy item that makes certain heroes uncounterable (other than with a taser yourself) so that you are forced to get it in a game if you see a particularly dangerous hero with taser running around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 88
  • Created
  • Last Reply

According to your point, any heavy aa based hero or serious dps is op with BS on him.

 

The thing is, you can also build based on BS and most importantly, it is a one target active item. This means, if any of those theoretically op heroes silence you first,you rely on your team mates to survive and counter attack.

 

Moreover,if it wasnt for this item,which exists for a certain purpose,you wouldnt be able to counter heroes like jax,t-bone,boros or basically ANY hero.

 

I myself use the item in a lot of builds,but it really depends on the type of playstyle my team or the other team has. There a lot of other factors such as team comp, build or skill that you are not taking unto account. I dont know if you play only pubs or on ih level, but please man, dont forget this game 5v5 game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You.forgot Cyprus.

 

Yes, this guy can be annoying but you can counter him with enough spell resist and it is not quite as bad anymore now that Cyprus can't double ult anymore with the old ihan. On the other hand, the DPS output of Shadow and Unix when geared enough makes this impractical. The most annoying thing I find in the game with regards to taser is that you are essentially forced to buy one if other heroes with high DPS buy one. Then winning fights has less to do with skill or strategy and really all about who tasers who first (basically a game of tag). For example, a while back I was playing MAAR and the other team had a decked out Shadow with a taser who may of gotten solely to counter me (a caster) or else had it as a general part of their build. So thanks to the vision nerf from MAAR's passive, I was able to taser the shadow first and then could finish him off fast enough with a couple sap's and ihan. Nobody else on my team could do anything about him, and of course this Shadow rages and says that taser is an imbalanced item on MAAR (even though he had a taser himself).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as i have stated constantly - the best way to get any suggestions heard is to talk directly to ekcol on mumble/have him spectate a game where you demonstrate the brokedness of the item in question :)

 

You are 110% correct about this, but this is just a discussion and less about Shadow or Unix being broken with taser (which I think most players would agree with) and more about what other heroes taser is a little too good on and maybe what would the game be like if the item was removed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, I think we should decide on a few things.

 

1. Should there be an item that silences? Is there a need for it? Or should just certain heroes with silences be allowed to? Giving them a bump up compared to other heroes that can't silence. Not having an item that silences would make team building more important, so you would have to have a silencer hero on your team. Also, is having a hero with a silencer and a Tazer too op? Because then they can double up the silence.

 

2. Should this said item have quite decent stats with it? Giving a person 20% damage increase, as well as good weapon speed, decent damage and intelligence, and good energy regeneration is not to be overlooked...

 

3. Would you prefer the silence to be separated into a different item from the other bonuses or remove silence all together from an item?

 

It's not necessary to keep enemies from casting spells, you can simply get spell resist or debuff immunity from other items already, if you absolutely find it necessary to silence a hero to beat them, then maybe that hero is broken?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol...sorry for making you rage so hard earlier today bro! Didn't think it'd rage you to the point of making a thread about this. XD

 

IMHO taser is a necessary item. It's needed to shut down some really ridiculous heroes that would otherwise be impossible to hold down or kill, let alone stop them in their tracks...and yes, those heroes include every single one of the ones you named.

 

PS: I was wrecking your entire team without taser, and only tasered end game when I got tired of how long it was taking to finish it, and it was rarely you that I tasered too. None of the allies in my team saw why you were raging so hard, but they found it funny.

 

EDIT: Btw, forgot to add: I found the fact that you were accusing me of "map hacking" hilarious and it made everyone's day. I do sincerely hope you were joking with that accusation. XD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol...sorry for making you rage so hard earlier today bro! Didn't think it'd rage you to the point of making a thread about this. XD

 

IMHO taser is a necessary item. It's needed to shut down some really ridiculous heroes that would otherwise be impossible to hold down or kill, let alone stop them in their tracks...and yes, those heroes include every single one of the ones you named.

 

PS: I was wrecking your entire team without taser, and only tasered end game when I got tired of how long it was taking to finish it, and it was rarely you that I tasered too. None of the allies in my team saw why you were raging so hard, but they found it funny.

 

EDIT: Btw, forgot to add: I found the fact that you were accusing me of "map hacking" hilarious and it made everyone's day. I do sincerely hope you were joking with that accusation. XD

 

I didn't care as much about you abusing taser on Shadow (a lot of players do it just because they can), but the fact you were clearly map hacking and my allies felt the same way as well. You made it extremely obvious and I tested you not once, but twice in that game, as did my allies (at that point we didn't really care that much because it was 3v4 and they wanted to see for sure as did I). You had no detection around the map and just made a beeline for myself and my allies without any vision of them. I have nothing else to say to you here or in a game ever again because I have better things to do than waste my time with blatant cheaters. People can play with you or against you at their own discretion, but if I see you on my team or on another team I will leave the lobby or the game and encourage anyone else to do so as well. Whether other people want to believe you hack or not is up to their own judgement, but you are not someone I will ever be playing with ever again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't care as much about you abusing taser on Shadow (a lot of players do it just because they can), but the fact you were clearly map hacking and my allies felt the same way as well. You made it extremely obvious and I tested you not once, but twice in that game, as did my allies (at that point we didn't really care that much because it was 3v4 and they wanted to see for sure as did I). You had no detection around the map and just made a beeline for myself and my allies without any vision of them. I have nothing else to say to you here or in a game ever again because I have better things to do than waste my time with blatant cheaters. People can play with you or against you at their own discretion, but if I see you on my team or on another team I will leave the lobby or the game and encourage anyone else to do so as well. Whether other people want to believe you hack or not is up to their own judgement, but you are not someone I will ever be playing with ever again.

 

May want to watch replays.

 

You can't imagine how hard we were laughing, let alone how hard I'm laughing right now at: "the fact you were clearly map hacking". Oh, and this is golden too: "you are not someone I will ever be playing with ever again"...glad I could rage you that much by using some common sense and paying attention to mini map and pings.

 

PS: Gonna give you a tip here. Generally when you're playing Jakk, it's a good idea to take advantage of his 3 minute mines to keep an eye out on your surroundings. I saw you doing that, none...at all.

 

EDIT: If me using taser on shadow as my 6th item, to make it end faster just cause I got tired of the ridiculously long stun from iron hide and getting ksed, is abusing it...then sue me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bio can also be annoying taser-ulti combo is good to kill heroes with crowd control.

 

Bio is also ridiculously annoying to kill without taser. You see what I mean? Taser is a necessary item in the game.

 

Any hero, played right, can be "annoying" with taser.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ability to silence is necessary, but the tazer as is needs to be removed/reworked so that its not Oped.

 

Well that is why you have heroes with a silence. But even worse, heroes with a silence and a taser are even more broken because they can pretty much permanently shut down non-AA heroes for an entire battle. For instance, Egon can initiate with a taser, throw down caustic salve, and then as the taser is about to wear off, hit the hero again with proton pack for a very long time. Same thing goes with DARPA. And it is not just heroes with silence but heroes with stuns that can initiate with taser and then keep you effectively unable to do anything for a very long duration. Nova with taser and then psychic web is another example, as is Micro who can warp shard, taser, throw, and then warp back to his team all in one combo without any real risk to himself.

 

In 5.0 there was no taser or silence, but you did have the pulse hammer which was a good item to have for its stun, nevertheless, you were not completely rendered useless for a very long time with a damage amplification debuff on you as well. To counter Unix a pulse hammer was an item you usually wanted to have, because for a lot of heroes countering Unix was very difficult without one. Pulse hammer of course is a different item now, but the old pulse hammer was a relatively balanced item if you asked me.

 

Also, one suggestion I had on the old forum was to take the damage amplification part of taser and give it to Khali Stone (which needs a buff because it is too expensive to buy and sell later and too useless and situational after the mid-game to occupy an inventory slot), and take the silence part of taser and make it a weapon attack debuff that would proc every 6-8 seconds for a silence of 2 seconds or so. This way you could use it to interrupt channeling spells or simply be annoying when fighting, but it would not be an automatic death sentence to a hero like Taser is now on certain heroes since the silence would not last long, you would have to actually attack an enemy hero to apply the debuff, and there would be plenty of time in between for a hero to use an evasion ability to get away.

 

As for locking down heroes with blinking abilities, you would add that ability to executioner's axe which is a very situational item now that could still use a buff and this is one way to do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Useful on all heroes in every situation to counter everything.

 

Tazer is Oped due to the stat/regen benefit combining with a 5 second, 25ish second cooldown silence THAT also amplifies damage done to the silenced target.

 

Tazer should be as the warp shard is, 1500ish mineral item that solely provides a 5 second silence and has a 30 second cooldown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Taser prevents a snowballed hero from hyper carrying and encourages team play, it's a great item and adds a lot to aos. If anything should be nerfed on taser it should be the damage amplification it provides, which actually was recently nerfed. Time will tell if the amp should be lowered more. Significant changes would need to be made to heroes like Infernal Mandrake and Hybrid Mar if taser were removed from the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How is the current taser OP?

 

At first when reading this thread I thought you really thought out your statements. But then this came. Let's see some highlights:

 

35% Weapon Speed

for an item that silences, is this not OP?

 

Silence + 10% Damage Amplification

what is not to consider?

 

Energy Regeneration

I forgot the exact amount, but it'd be worth 800 minerals regeneration-wise alone.

 

Intelligence

This gives a decent quantity of Intelligence too. I forgot, was it around 28-38?

 

All in a single item that doesn't even reach the cost of 4000. Here's a suggested nerf:

 

25% Weapon Speed

1.25 Energy Regeneration

Same Intelligence

 

Here's how I think we should nerf the Active:

[Active] Silence the target unit for up to 5 seconds. For every 100 points of Intelligence the target has, the duration is reduced by 1 second, otherwise, it is kept at 5 seconds. 1 second minimum silence, 35 seconds shared cooldown.

 

I emphasized shared because at the moment 6 tasers could silence nearly indefinitely, or 2 could last a hell long time. This was shown by Banzaiguy to me :/

This way, it is not as effective on INT-based casters, as they would mostly die with this. It would definitely still deal with Bio, Toxi, and Shadow, as these have low INT. Unix can be silenced for usually 2 or more seconds, because Unix players (imo) stack more time scale than they do for INT. Their max INT should be around 300-400ish, so it really depends. Unix could be countered easier than the previously mentioned characters anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...