Snowballing in AoS

[MOTHER]

Would I be completely wrong to say that snowballing in AoS happens too fast and becomes very hard to reverse once it happens? When it happens, might as well just say GG and surrender or for many just quit (no wonder you need a leaver bonus to entice players to stay).

 

I'm also not sure what can be done to solve this (assuming you agree with me that's a problem).

[doxthefox]

Would I be completely wrong to say that snowballing in AoS happens too fast and becomes very hard to reverse once it happens? When it happens, might as well just say GG and surrender or for many just quit (no wonder you need a leaver bonus to entice players to stay).

 

I'm also not sure what can be done to solve this (assuming you agree with me that's a problem).

The way I've seen it is that you can snowball pretty easily and push up to the enemies third turret to a degree, but you can't take it down with ease. That what makes the game last so long. It is possible to just turtle for a long time until the enemy team gets frustrated and dives you 3 or 4 times, you get frustrated and move out, or you turtle so long that gold means nothing as both sides maxes out items and you can finally make your move to push out.

[MOTHER]

That pretty much is what happens when the enemy team snowballs out of control (really easily and really fast), your team needs to give up on the tier 1 and tier 2 towers because there is no way to to defend them anymore, so you just turtle until you have enough gold/experience to maybe reverse the snowball but you probably won't unless players start leaving.

 

The problem isn't the turtling, which is a legitimate strategy. The problem is snowballing in AoS, which unlike DotA 2 for example, happens way too fast, hits way too hard and is very hard to reverse. A team that has been fed deserves their superior odds of winning but in AoS, they don't have to be fed much to become unstoppable.

[doxthefox]

I honestly think it's pretty hard to die early in AoS if you ward out and position correctly. The only things that are pretty much a guaranteed death every time I'd say is a Grunty Rocket, which is the best and safest initiation in the game of course or some standard miscommunication and mismicro in the 2v1/2v2 lanes. I always feel that you should play the game to not die since the creep gold is worthless when compared to a single kill or assist. Of course you should always last hit creep if you can unless the risk is too great. For example the risk is obviously too great to get any creep in a 2v1 lane if the opponents can stun/snare/burst you/ (basically out trade you) In this case you should probably buy tons of potions to sustain for the laning phase, stay in range to at least get experience if they aren't zoning you too harshly and buy a gold per 10 item to make up for some of the creep that you're bound to miss.

[ginosaji]

They nerfed towers awhile ago, tier 1 and 2 go down fast because of it. It's hard to take tier 3 because the way the map is: Proximity to regen, high ground advantage, proximity to other players, small choke points, and certainty that you can't be flanked. On top of that there are heros with high AOE and CC that take advanntage of it. The devs nerfed the towers because we all complained games were taking too long. I don't see how you could get around difficulty of taking tier 3 tower and don't think you should. It really is not that big a deal unless they have tons of AOE and CC. Even then, farm up, boss control, gg. Pubs take 30-45 mins instead of the 45-1:15 they used to take. IH are shorter on average as well. What do you want, 15 minute games?

[IMBrew]

 

The problem is snowballing in AoS, which unlike DotA 2 for example, happens way too fast, hits way too hard and is very hard to reverse. A team that has been fed deserves their superior odds of winning but in AoS, they don't have to be fed much to become unstoppable.

 

Are u proceeding with ure classic clueless bullshap again? Do you think there is a certain reason why casters are saying that giving away ONE tower is horrible and should never be done in dota 2? Dota 2 snowballs just as fast as AoS if not faster for certain hero lineups. There is a good reason why pushing strats work so well in doto 2 and finish games in <15-20 mins. If enemy mid hero has snowballed u cant even leave ure tower.

 

If u flobed up u deserve to punished. Snowballing is and never was a problem for HoN and Dota.

[Apocalyptic]

Lol. The snowballing in AoS is so much tamer than it used to be. Remember when Level 25 used to be the max level? Snowballing was off the charts. I didn't mind it back then and I certainly don't now.

[SourDiesel]

It all depends on which heroes you have on your team. I've come back from some pretty bad situations with Maar (Down 10+ kills, 4+ towers, 2+ Aeons).

 

In order to come back, you have to be strong enough to turtle and powerful enough to punish the enemy for split pushing (if they split 2-3, one guy can hold the 2 with the other 4 being strong enough to push out and wipe the 3). Turtling with an item disadvantage - which is basically what snowballing is since there is a level cap - means that you need strong, ranged, AoE and/or summons to hold the towers without exposing yourself to superior firepower (Maar, Unix, Rancor, Kerri, Dustin, Chuck, Null, Queen). You got to be very careful because one untimely death can mean losing a tower and the game being over, and you got to be able to handle things getting worse before they get better (since the other side will have free access to aeon and levi). It's totally doable though with the right heroes.

 

In a comeback, while the end is exciting, there are long, incredibly boring, stretches before you get there. The losing team has to be able to hold a stalemate long enough to max out items and that can take a half hour or more. Snowballing is a good thing because it makes comeback games rare which saves time and makes those games more enjoyable when they occur. Only downside is that it gets annoying when people try to surrender when a comeback is possible because they get too trapped in the mentality that it is never possible to make a comeback.

[Indo]

If you get pwned badly, you should surrender.... flob this leaver bonus just remove this crap -.-

 

Once you let the other team snowball( YOUR FAULT!!!!!) you don't deserve to win. Right now you get a leaver bonus ( not their fault) when your team get pwned and rq.. Its like a bonus for sucking the crap out of the game

[ginosaji]

It hasnt been a problem for me except in rare circumstances. By a problem I mean that the net quality/skill of my team was higher than theirs on average and other team (with leavers) won. That scenario is when there are three average, good, or otherwise evenly matched players on both teams and two feeders per team. When both feeders quit on the other team early in the game and the two on my team don't it can become a problem. Otherwise I don't think it's a huge deal. It does just as much to even out a 5v4, making it a better game, as it does favoring the scenario I just described. I see it as a wash mostly.

[Indo]

its more likely that there is an uneven number of decent players, lets say 4 and 2..

 

the newbie in the winning team with 4 decent players stays, the 3newbies of the other team are leaving..

 

the two good players would snowball on the newbie and due to getting 4minerals per second each + 21% buffs just pwn in any groupfight

[SourDiesel]

If you get pwned badly, you should surrender.... flob this leaver bonus just remove this crap -.-

 

Once you let the other team snowball( YOUR FAULT!!!!!) you don't deserve to win. Right now you get a leaver bonus ( not their fault) when your team get pwned and rq.. Its like a bonus for sucking the crap out of the game

 

I look at it totally the opposite. If you're winning a game and a player or two on the other team rage quits - meaning you now are not only winning but also have more players - and you go on to lose the game it is YOUR FAULT for not being able to finish them. Extra heroes is always an advantage if you're actually better than the other team, regardless of the leaver bonus.

 

The scenario you described, where a team is losing, has a player or two rage quit, and then comes back to win, usually means that they were better than you from the get go and it wasn't their fault they were losing at all. The only reason they were behind to begin with was because they got stuck with a feeder or two who finally left the game.

[BestZeratul]

Lol. The snowballing in AoS is so much tamer than it used to be. Remember when Level 25 used to be the max level? Snowballing was off the charts. I didn't mind it back then and I certainly don't now.

 

That's actually not true, heroes would snowball harder, but comebacks were still possible. This is the same with lol and dota, a fed hero is way harder to deal with in dota than in lol, but comebacks are way more frequent in competitive dota than in lol (I think over a big sample stats showed when teams had a 10% gold lead at 10 min they would win 90% of the time in lol compared to 75% in dota for the same stats).

[Indo]

Sourdiesel it depends on your and their heros, when the got something like a darpa, zera cyprus and co, try to counter it with teamwork without any imba items like shc or so ( it is in pubs so you might have to solo counter them)

[Rem]

Ok.... Buys a tazer and an emantle... GG Now any team fight you win.

[EterNity]

If enemy team is so far ahead, why should you think you should have better chance of comeback?

 

The point of snowballing is that the game will end early as two team has significant difference in player skills. The game SHOULD and will end quickly.

[John]

type -tm to deal with snowball

[BestZeratul]

If enemy team is so far ahead, why should you think you should have better chance of comeback?

 

The point of snowballing is that the game will end early as two team has significant difference in player skills. The game SHOULD and will end quickly.

 

When the team who takes the first tower wins the game 95% of the time it's a problem though.

[Revolution]

If a team snowballs real fast and easy then you aren't doing something right. Bad fights, bad map awareness and bad team communication are the most common of getting raped really fast. I've played LoL, AoS and DotA 2 and I think that AoS snowballs harder than LoL and not nearly as much as DotA 2, while being the easiest to make a comeback.

[Psyght]

I think people fall behind in AOS really easily because they don't understand it's a TEAM GAME, things that you need to think about are global cash, your teams TOTAL worth , V their teams TOTAL worth. meaning, just cause 1 player is getting super fed, it is only effecting him. If you are still pushing towers/getting bosses and keeping up on CS, you can still have a global worth way above your opponents team, just because you cant over come 1 player in worth, if your team has more money, your probably be ahead. I just think taht people are oblivous to how to get money in this game, they think the only way to make cash is creeps and kills. People need to realize how important global cash is in aos.

[Fumbles]

snowballing in AoS: :(

 

snowballing in dota 2: http://www.dota2-utilities.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/tusk-snowball.jpg

[BestZeratul]

If a team snowballs real fast and easy then you aren't doing something right. Bad fights, bad map awareness and bad team communication are the most common of getting raped really fast. I've played LoL, AoS and DotA 2 and I think that AoS snowballs harder than LoL and not nearly as much as DotA 2, while being the easiest to make a comeback.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343759 LoL snowballs much harder than DotA at a competitive level. I think aos is the same, I hardly ever see a comeback in inhouse games (I can't find the post but DotA is something like 75% for the same numbers fyi).

[Fumbles]

someone like my tusk joke and validate me and my self-perceived cleverness, wit and mirth.

[ESQtanya]

You get my one like of the day

[Fumbles]

<3 whale, revolt and jessika. is jessika the new kathy