[Item] Hunter's Hatchet is Underpowered

[Eliwan]

Well, that sums up the topic nicely. Let's delve into why.

 

For reference, I'll paste in Hunter's Hatchet's stats:

 

Section: Miscellaneous

Cost 425

[unique] You deal 25% more Physical Damage to creeps (+15% Physical Damage if the target is >1.5 units away).

 

Well, in THEORY it's useful-- you deal bonus damage to enemy creeps.

 

But it is not.

 

First, let's look at the fact that it's in the Miscellaneous section. There are only two items that you cannot find somehow without going to that section; and those are Hunter's Hatchet and Warp Shard.

That explains why people don't know about the existence of it, right? And Ghosting Garb is a component of some items and Soul Engine builds into Khalis Weaver.

 

Second, the actual item. 1.25x damage for all the "melee" heroes to creeps is pretty useful, but the cost of 425 is far too much to make it useful-- for that price you could get something more useful-- a Zerg Symbiosis is possible if you start with Avarice and select quickly. A pair of Soul Engines is worth more than this item for the most part and have roughly the same cost (430 vs 425).

 

Now if you're a ranged hero, this item is worth EVEN LESS. You don't get to make use of that range, which means actually stepping up close to the enemy creeps. However, you might have not gotten close enough despite feeling that you are close enough; which makes the item touchy on ranged heroes aside from Jackson (who gets up close for his Magnetic Link ability).

 

So ranged heroes won't use it; and melee heroes are better off starting with different items-- maybe a Balancer (315?) and both types of potions (115) is worth quite a lot more for starting items.

 

Some fixes I can come up with:

 

Increasing the bonus damage from 25% (15%) to something in the range of 40% (30%).

Having Hunter's Hatchet increase damage output from Spell Damage.

Increasing the range at which that your damage is lowered from 1.5 to at least 2, maybe even 3.

Lowering the cost to around 300.

Making items that build from Hunter's Hatchet that are useful for reason A or B.

 

I'm not saying that it needs all of that (in fact if it had all of that, it might be a little overpowered!), but at least some of it.

Come on, let's give the item that needs the love some.

[Baggins]

I would agree, you can barely notice it how it is now. I think the best would be to select the first 3, maybe even decrease the cost. I actually have only bought it once (i play more ranged heroes) and when i did buy it, it did absolutely nothing for me.

[xSEnergy]

Or maybe it's an item not even worth keeping?

[Eliwan]

It's not even worth buying on a non-melee range hero, as the 1.15x damage modifier is insignificant early on compared to the bonus you could get from buying different items-- You only start in the range of 50 attack damage; so here's some math:

 

50 * 1.15 => 57.5

50 * 1.25 => 62.5 (Hey! Significant!)

 

Item of similarless cost with better bonus when killing a single creep camp at game start:

 

[Less cost]

195 cost: Health Potion x3. No, this is SERIOUSLY STILL BETTER. You heal quite a lot of health and your base damage is plenty high enough to get somewhere at the start.

325 cost: Quantum Spade. Horribly misnamed now; but nonetheless it gives +10 Attack Damage (better on Ranged heroes)... but wait; this +10 damage applies when you fight heroes, too! :O And it costs 100 less! And it builds into decent items!

340 cost: 6 minute +18 stat potions and Health Potion (300 HP over 30? seconds). For every hero that gains Attack Damage from STR or AGI, these are WAY better and even cost less; and the damage from Hunter's Hatchet is worthless midgame and late-game you 5-shot everything so it won't matter. For INT heroes it's probably better too; as you'll probably have a damaging spell at level 1. The Potion lets you get back into the fray after killing the neutral camp.

380 cost: Balancer (+4 to all stats), Health Potion. That's +2 attack damage, +40 HP, +0.56 armor, +28 energy, +0.16 Health Regen, +1.2% Attack Speed, +0.056 Energy Regen. This is probably the same and costs 45 fewer minerals-- in other words, you could get an Energy Potion too.

 

Basically, whenever you're buying a Hunter's Hatchet there are a literal ton of better options.

 

There is no item set that is as a set that includes Hunter's Hatchet as part of it.

You only have 750 minerals, and the HH costs 425. By comparison, double Quantum Spade costs 750 and is more than twice as good. :>

 

 

It's less that H.H. is a bad idea and more that it's far too weak for the cost. If it costed 200 or something, like a Soul Engine then everybody and their dog would get one because it'd be a good item.

[WhaleTits]

fair enough. though aeon is already a joke, buffing hunters would make it even... jokier?

 

also level 1 levi builds grab hunters though in retrospect its probably not worth it

[Aellectris]

I'd like to see Hunter's Hatchet become a component of Executioner's Axe, with the latter also receiving a buff. Think about it - a hatchet becomes an axe!

[Revolution]

Executioners axe does need a buff.

[WhaleTits]

hatchet is 275 minerals in alpha at the moment

[Eliwan]

Whooo!

 

Great to know that the item may actually see use.

And damn it I got dropped literally the second after a Zeratul killed me ;_; Sorry |OvO|.

[residente]

Well now you can buy and and with Avarice you will have another 260 to buy and and mana potion for example, or if you go jungling you can buy the and without consumables

[Seriphos]

Hatchet needs a change in my opinion. I think it's better to deal a set amount of damage or a percent based amount of damage. I also suggest removing the range difference as that is severely unneeded. Considering the 275 alpha cost from WhaleTits:

 

Hunter's Hatchet

 

Cost: 275

 

[unique] You deal 15 or 25% bonus physical damage to creeps, whichever is greater.

 

And develop to an item for example, like this:

 

Hunter's Battleaxe

Requires:

• Hunter's Hatchet (275)
  
• Pulse Regenerator (425)
  
• Anabolic Circulator (475)
  

Cost:

• Components: 1175
  
• Recipe: 325
  
• Total: 1500
  

Gives:

• 3 Health Regeneration
  
• 0.75 Energy Regeneration
  

[unique] You deal 20 or 30% bonus physical damage to creeps, whichever is greater. Additionally, you gain +2 Health Regeneration after killing a creep, lasting 15 seconds. Stacks indefinitely.

[aidanderson]

^^ sounds pretty good. It will be a necessity for jungling then since jungling is now viable.

[residente]

I find better an item, fusion of the soul engine and the hunters hatchet. Ediwan or whatever is called, the guy who makes 1000 item suggestions per day had very nice idea of that item

[Eliwan]

I think I lost that one. E_E'

 

 

Nevermind, I found it.

 

Chain Bolt

Recipe Cost: 110

Total Cost: 600

Required Items:

[Active] Deals 90 + 50% Weapon Damage Physical Damage to a unit and bounces to other nearby enemies, damage reducing by 25% each time. Maximum of 4 hit enemies. Cooldown of 60 seconds, shared cooldown of 8 seconds.

[unique] Whenever a unit dies within an 8 unit radius around you, you recover 10 Health and 7 Energy. Recovery is doubled if you killed the unit.

[unique] You deal 25% more Physical Damage to creeps (+15% Physical Damage if the target is >1.5units away).

+10% Physical Leech

[residente]

yay, i want that item in sotis/aos please! but, make the active have 45+5*lvl mana cost or less, idk =D

[aidanderson]

^^ dude it's an item for christs sake it doesn't cost mana to use.