Snowballing Cap

[doxthefox]

You've all been in the game where that one guy kills some scrub... and then again... and again... and again... and what again? Meanwhile, you're in mid chilling, having a nice Farmville lane with your opponent and then... the scrub dies again! So now these guys got 6 kills by feeding off a guy that's already behind 3 or 4 levels at this point, so he say's screw this and R-R-Rage quits his way out the game. The obvious suggestion to fixing this problem is to lower the snowballing effect by making a guy who dies multiple times in succession worth less gold, to the point where he's worth less than a creep if he dies enough. Thus, a snowballing cap.

[NoWaterJustIce]

does this actually happen in lol, I play sometimes but i never noticed it?

[doxthefox]

Yea after like 6 or 7 deaths, you'll be worth as much or less than a creep. The only way to be worth gold again is by killing someone. I had a Darius start the game 0-5-0 in ranked yesterday and he was raging Crni style. I told him that I couldn't kill top lane with him because he did no damage (Garen top laned and I was jungling Jarvan) and that I snowballed mid to 5-0 (who eventually ganked and helped bot lane win) so it was worth it. By mid game I told him to push every tower that he could when there were 5 mid. The enemy team came down mid, realized they couldn't take the tower too late, while Darius pushed two towers for free. They eventually reacted and chased after him after the second tower fell by using all their spells in quick succession (common moba mistake) and got like 70 gold. We eventually caught up to them while they had their cooldowns and just wrecked them, then took another turret and dragon (Aeon for AoS). Essentially we gained 600 global gold in towers/dragon, plus w/e gold we got from killing the lot of them [plus 25 for dragon kill!], all for a guy worth essentially nothing. In LoL, it's not about how many you kill, but who you kill. For those interested in what a snowballing cap is... here you go (5/6th section specifically).

http://leagueoflegen...a.com/wiki/Kill

[BestZeratul]

As nice as it would be for pubs, when someone is playing this bad then his team should lose. I know it sucks when your sidelane is 0-10 10 minutes in but your team is to blame for not taking proper action after one lane is 0-4 (may it be playing very defensively, swapping lanes, ganking the lane that's failing). The situation you are describing is the result of bad play from the team in its entirety and there is no reason why as the midlaner you should get away with it.

[IMBrew]

Are u still blaming dipa's lina chob

[BestZeratul]

Yes, you can go on my dotabuff and check my last lina game to l2p lina. Hard support beyond godlike in 10 minutes, 0 assists, puma will confirm.

[Misantrophy]

Snowballing in AoS is nowhere near snowballing in Dota2 lol

[Skydie]

The issue is, is that it would mean I would get no minerals every game vs SA.

[Lucky]

I actually like this idea very much

[IMBrew]

Yes, you can go on my dotabuff and check my last lina game to l2p lina. Hard support beyond godlike in 10 minutes, 0 assists, puma will confirm.

But in my last game on dotabuff ure feeding as windrunner what a yoke.

[doxthefox]

As nice as it would be for pubs, when someone is playing this bad then his team should lose. I know it sucks when your sidelane is 0-10 10 minutes in but your team is to blame for not taking proper action after one lane is 0-4 (may it be playing very defensively, swapping lanes, ganking the lane that's failing). The situation you are describing is the result of bad play from the team in its entirety and there is no reason why as the midlaner you should get away with it.

Coordination in pubs? This is an interesting concept, but not realistic. Here's what generally happens when you gank. You ping, you type, and your teammates might acknowledge you. As you come to gank with your mid of choice, you initiate, get in a 2v1 situation and die. They react after your death and eventually they die as well. The other option is they initiate, and you come to help, but they go in too soon and die, leaving you missing the wave of creep and probably not being able to clean up. You're thinking about an experienced player that knows when to go in, how to initiate and most importantly how to react to situations. Yes, I'm using the guy that's already fed 6 times and RQ's as an example, but it's no secret that in an ih scenario, anyone with a brain would ward or have some sort of escape mechanic if it were to happen there (minus the RQ part).

[Jaysi]

So then... I could just continue to tower dive and try to hard push towers and not really worry about feeding? Can't people abuse this?

 

Also, let's fix people that go afk...

[BestZeratul]

You can't make balance changes based on people being braindead. If they don't play the game the way it's supposed to be played it's their problem, not the devs.

[doxthefox]

So then... I could just continue to tower dive and try to hard push towers and not really worry about feeding? Can't people abuse this?

If you're dead 6 times with no items then be my guest. In my LoL example, the opponents made two mistakes. The first was they underestimated our ability to wave clear when they decided to push mid. The second was that they didn't send anyone top to clear their own wave. A smart team will always clear the waves in every lane so that this doesn't happen before pushing out or they recognize a scenario where they can push a wave and they can fight under a tower regardless of if there is a tower there or not. Normally it's good to dive under a tower if the enemy is low. Also, you should siege (poke them at their turrets in a 5v5 team fight) when you have a baron/levi buff because of the massive buffs (regeneration/damage etc.) it provides though you can siege without it if you have the right team comp and you know the opponent can't dive you. Sometimes teams are evenly matched and you will have a poking contest mid of course. #Tower pushing 101

You can't make balance changes based on people being braindead. If they don't play the game the way it's supposed to be played it's their problem, not the devs.

It balances both cases. I'm not saying that if you kill a guy 6 times that you shouldn't be rewarded, but it shouldn't be a death sentence for the outcome of the game.

[IMBrew]

If you're dead 6 times with no items then be my guest. In my LoL example, the opponents made two mistakes. The first was they underestimated our ability to wave clear when they decided to push mid. The second was that they didn't send anyone top to clear their own wave. A smart team will always clear the waves in every lane so that this doesn't happen before pushing out or they recognize a scenario where they can push a wave and they can fight under a tower regardless of if there is a tower there or not. Normally it's good to dive under a tower if the enemy is low. Also, you should siege (poke them at their turrets in a 5v5 team fight) when you have a baron/levi buff because of the massive buffs (regeneration/damage etc.) it provides though you can siege without it if you have the right team comp and you know the opponent can't dive you. Sometimes teams are evenly matched and you will have a poking contest mid of course. #Tower pushing 101

It balances both cases. I'm not saying that if you kill a guy 6 times that you shouldn't be rewarded, but it shouldn't be a death sentence for the outcome of the game.

 

Actually if a hero in ure team is 0 6 0, is 4 lvls behind enemies and dies in 3 sec every teamfight cuz he has no money is forcing u to play a 4v6 game which is actually a death sentence,

[doxthefox]

Actually if a hero in ure team is 0 6 0, is 4 lvls behind enemies and dies in 3 sec every teamfight cuz he has no money is forcing u to play a 4v6 game which is actually a death sentence,

So you're agreeing with me? I'm confused. I'm saying that it should be balanced so that it doesn't become a death sentence, which is how the game is now. 4v6 sounds about right, maybe not 4 levels behind, more like 1 or 2 as 3 or 4 levels is a great exaggeration on my part.

[Nuparu]

I think bounty for dying without an assist/kill should drop at a rate of -50/death, and have the floor cap at 100 minerals.

 

In the meantime, instead of the godlike/kill streak/rampage, it should scale up at 50-75/kill (max 600).

 

And it should start at 300. That way, if your carry dies, the enemy doesn't get fed ridiculous money, while in the meantime, if a feeder dies, the enemy doesn't get fed still.

 

It'll promote creep farming :p

[MOTHER]

Thumbs up on the idea.

 

It's quite fair, like when you kill someone who just went on a rampage or monster kill streak you are rewarded extra for taking them out. Logically, the opposite should also be true, if you take out someone who died several times in a row, you should be rewarded very little. Although once that person finally makes a kill, it should reset.

 

Many times in pub games, the entire team suffers and pays a hefty price because one person fed so much in the early laning phase that by mid game, it is a frustrating struggle to turn the tide.

 

Now don't get me wrong, a good team should be rewarded for being better, but it should be scaled more appropriately especially for pubs.

 

I like Nuparu's scaling.

[ArcAngelSeth]

How about you add a optional kik. Where if someone is feeding like a mofo(had a game where a guy went 0-20 in 15 min) your team can start a vote to kik him?

[doxthefox]

How about you add a optional kik. Where if someone is feeding like a mofo(had a game where a guy went 0-20 in 15 min) your team can start a vote to kik him?

If the game is still going after Marche feeds that many kills, God bless your team for hanging in there. ;)

[pchacker]

You've all been in the game where that one guy kills some scrub... and then again... and again... and again... and what again? Meanwhile, you're in mid chilling, having a nice Farmville lane with your opponent and then... the scrub dies again! So now these guys got 6 kills by feeding off a guy that's already behind 3 or 4 levels at this point, so he say's screw this and R-R-Rage quits his way out the game. The obvious suggestion to fixing this problem is to lower the snowballing effect by making a guy who dies multiple times in succession worth less gold, to the point where he's worth less than a creep if he dies enough. Thus, a snowballing cap.

 

Im pretty sure this has been suggested a few times before, though it obviously wasn't put in for some reason. It seems logical to put it in honestly. Why should a team that consists of 4 good players and 1 mega feeder lose to a team a 5 average players, just because the feeder gave them like 6000 mins each within the first 15 minutes.

[IMBrew]

Because game should be balanced for competitve not for ure scrub pub. This is not League of Casuals yet. If someone in ure team is 0 6 0 during tournament match, gtfo, lose and replace him. Pubs dont matter one bit.

[MOTHER]

Pubs is where it starts, how can you make such a sweeping statement that pubs don't matter? You just alienated a sh*t load of people. Elitism is not the way.

[BestZeratul]

It's not elitism to say you shouldn't balance the game around people being braindead and running into towers 10 times in a row. It sucks when you get that sort of teammate but you honestly shouldn't win when that happens. And if one guy is getting constantly outplayed and killed it's just unfair that the enemy team is only rewarded 50 minerals for the kill.

[MOTHER]

Then you shouldn't be rewarded for killing a player who is constantly outplaying you. If the mineral bonus is a measure of how much skill it took you to take out another hero, then it stands to reason that killing an enemy hero that requires little to no skill (ie a hard feeder) should reward you less.

 

I'm not saying 50 minerals but like another user said, the floor should be at about 100 minerals while the maximum reward should be around the 500-600 range with a median of 250-300 per kill, which fluctuates and resets based on a player's performance. Other things could also reset the bounty like X time passing since the last time the player got killed or killed.

 

You must also surely understand that minerals are not the only reward for killing another hero, You/your team also gains XP and most importantly the fact that there is one less hero on the field to worry about for some time. So you're still gaining something from killing braindead players.

 

Mobas are not and should not only be about racking up kills and minerals, they are team objective-oriented battles. Keyword being team. A mechanic like what is being suggested would not ruin the experience one bit.

 

It would certainly help alleviate people yelling "feeder" and cussing at one another asking each other to leave their team.