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I agree with Mus but I'll further the point. Say if someone plays 100 solo pubs and get a W/L ratio of 60%, yet another person plays 100 5 man party pubs and has a W/L ratio of 70%. Purely looking at the W/L the game would treat the person with 70% W/L ratio as better. The only way for the game to properly differentiate skill, would be too complex (and imho a waste of time) for the Devs. You'd have to consider so many things, and acquire information about whether games where played with parties, APM (and consider there to be a base line for individual hero APMs and a sort of max line over which it doesn't matter too much), assists, how well the person lanes, whether they're normally first to push or get pushed and team play (perhaps by how close they're to allies during major killing sessions). The issue is all of these things change, in IH vs Gara/Queen your going to lose your lane, if you're the same ability as your laning enemies. So that would negatively effect your laning stat, even though your were at a disadvantage in that lane.

 

Perhaps an alternative is to release a game mode where the game is somewhat more akin to IH games, to enter lobby there are no requirements (although there is a disclaimer saying only those with 150 or more games played can participate). There are 2 captain slots in this lobby. After which the game starts and the 2 captains have 2 mins to in each round of drafting players, information they have at hand is a 'score-card' of the player. With W/L ratio, games played, K/D and assists. This would have a timer, and be based on the current system of drafting. If timer drops to 0 - random player pick/hero ban. (Cba to explain drafting system here). This would be a better system of getting more intense pub games, without massively over burdening the Devs with ways to find crazy hard stats. Although even this suggestion would be very time consuming to implement.

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If you could vote for the autobalance feature with a vote initially- lets say 60% of the people agreeing - then it should happen

 

An imperfect balance system is better than none at all

 

Its really boring having to play games where everyone rage quits after 15 mins- Every 5 pub games there might be one good one.

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But the thing is Hashem W/L doesn't mean anything. As the Aos player pool varies in skill, and there is no current balancing system, balancing around win loss would assume people had the same difficulty games for all of their games - not true. Also a fatal flaw is that leaving a game doesn't constitute a loss, just decrease in rating (correct me if I'm wrong). Meaning some terrible players could be seen as 'good' with 90%+ W/L ratios (assuming you think that is good).

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Why not just use KDA as a basis for experience / skill?

 

Ratings and winloss are meaningless

 

A system could in theory auto balance and split teams based on whatever metric is decided to evaluate KDA and assign it to a point value

 

This would ensure that teams do not end up with too many "new"/"bad" players on one side or the other in any random pub match

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akanna my reply to that would be that KDA varies wildly on the types of heroes you play/pick. I know many IH players who are early picks but would be deeply unfavoured by a KDA system (based on ratio), because they play support/pusher heroes and end the game with more deaths than kills frequently. Yet these players are far better than many people who only play carries and get absurd killing sprees but only when they're clearly winning and have a high k/d ratio. Some would say:

"Forget ratio then just use pure numbers of Kills". To that I say, in pub if you play carries and support and you have 5k kills and 5k deaths you're not as good as someone with 3k Kills 1K Deaths. Yet a system using purely numbers of kills would assume so.

 

As we can see which ever way we look at it, it's hard for a computer to assume whose the best player, without using complicated equations and gathering more information - all of which is too much effort for a mod. The kind of dreamed up solution would be something like MMR (but we don't have a huge community) or a system which uses data collected from a information analyser like CoD Elite. This is why letting a Captain in a special slightly more restricted mode is better, he can analyse and weigh up the pros/cons of a player fairly easily.

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Perhaps an alternative is to release a game mode where the game is somewhat more akin to IH games, to enter lobby there are no requirements (although there is a disclaimer saying only those with 150 or more games played can participate).

 

I like this idea or aleast let us see win/loss records. In general starcraft, we get to see win/loss records so we can make a wise decision whether to stay or not or if it's gonna be a waste of time.

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I like this idea or aleast let us see win/loss records. In general starcraft we get to see win/loss records so we can make a wise decision whether to stay or not or if it's gonna be a waste of time.

 

I remember long ago some information being displayed about allies. But this caused 1/2 people to leave every few games, ruining the game from the start. To be honest it did sometimes get to the point where people were leaving every game after seeing a newbs stats and it got beyond ridiculous with all the ditched games.

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akanna my reply to that would be that KDA varies wildly on the types of heroes you play/pick. I know many IH players who are early picks but would be deeply unfavoured by a KDA system (based on ratio), because they play support/pusher heroes and end the game with more deaths than kills frequently. Yet these players are far better than many people who only play carries and get absurd killing sprees but only when they're clearly winning and have a high k/d ratio. Some would say:

"Forget ratio then just use pure numbers of Kills". To that I say, in pub if you play carries and support and you have 5k kills and 5k deaths you're not as good as someone with 3k Kills 1K Deaths. Yet a system using purely numbers of kills would assume so.

 

As we can see which ever way we look at it, it's hard for a computer to assume whose the best player, without using complicated equations and gathering more information - all of which is too much effort for a mod. The kind of dreamed up solution would be something like MMR (but we don't have a huge community) or a system which uses data collected from a information analyser like CoD Elite. This is why letting a Captain in a special slightly more restricted mode is better, he can analyse and weigh up the pros/cons of a player fairly easily.

 

Agree 100% as i have already pointed this out 13123123123 times over when they mentioned trying to use KDA as a metric to determine "goodness" when implementing an auto kick (that goodness and KDA spreads are highly subjective to the hero and role you fill)

 

But you miss the point

 

A new player will not have thousands of kills and assists

 

By default such a system would at least ensure that teams are slightly more balanced than pure chance for at least 95% of cases.

 

YES the system cannot decide that players are actually good, nor can it ensure teams will work well together, but it would at least make sure you don't have 5 players with 3-4K plus kills/assists against a team where no player has even 1K in total KDA (something that comes up a lot actually).

 

Offhand Id say counting 2 assists as a kill is more than enough to create a general metric. Again its not about ranking or anything like that, so theres no reason for people to change how they play. Its just a way to redistribute players after they form up in the lobby to attempt to make things less 1 sided when possible. Obviously if people alter or whipe their banks it can be fooled, but its better than nothing.

 

It would probably end up splitting up premades which could be seen as bad I suppose, but it would definitely improve the experience for solo pubbers and newer players (nobody likes getting completely dominated all game long which often happens when one team has far more experienced players) so overall It would be a huge win.

 

Again NOT SUGGESTING AOS LADDER, just that the system uses the information it already has access to try to help balance teams.

Can take place during the load or something

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I understand, this would be a "quick-fix" to balancing the game a bit more. Yeh I agree it would be good, but it'd have to not be forced upon people. Breaking up parties would be silly. So perhaps a non auto balanced version of the map would have to be uploaded. I think less people would probably be playing the auto balanced version of the map, if the default is non auto. But we'd have to test this.

 

To clarify, yes my solution too involved 2 versions of the map. However I'm assuming a game-mode essentially locked to those without 150 games would still be popular considering its target audience, I think they'd know by over 100 game modes another game option exists. This would be a sort of revamped Veteran mode.

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Hmm I dont remember veteran mode working out so well

 

In theory though it sounds more like you are suggesting a mode for "team" play (solo joiners allowed parties not split) and a mode for "solo" play (random system balanced teams where parties can be split up) which is totally different from the beginner/veteran mode system tried before.

 

(Note I do not mean solo/team play as in actual teamwork in game, but rather whether or not parties can be split up. Teamwork is required in every AOS match)

 

Not sure we have the playerbase needed to support it but it actually sounds pretty solid.

 

I do kinda like the idea of the "team" mode having a minimum number of games or some kind of overall KDA requirements....

(As in amount) to keep total "newbies" out. Wont ensure that people are good, but they will at least have played before.

In the "solo" mode it wouldn't matter bc teams are "auto balanced"

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With pub games you can actually choose your team unless you're the last to join or play different servers. After playing in one region for a while, you'll start to notice familiar names and be able to spot pre made teams, as well as newer players.

 

Checking a persons game history can be a give a way too.

 

The harsh truth; pubs will very rarely go over 15 mins 5v5. If this bugs you, or you want more balanced games, you'll have to wait the time for ih games. It's sort of a trade off. Public, you will be in a game 2-3 minutes after clicking join now depending on the time of day. With ih, you could wait up to an hour or more for a game.

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Your all making this unneccisarily complicated, Its fairly easy to change the start system to a vote screen, Allows all players to vote on the setup for the game.

 

List of things that could be voted on,

 

Draft mode, blind or otherwise.

 

Auto balance teams yes or no, Splits teams as evenly as possible based on their career kdr

 

There's plenty more options that can be placed in here that have been thrown around the forums and on mumble as good ideas to implement but unsure on how to do it.

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propose player skill level system:

 

player skill = (rating * (assists/deaths) + kills) / 10

 

So a pretty good player, but relatively few games played with 500-200-400 kdar and 3000 rating, for example would be 650

 

a new player with 300-600-400 and 1000 rating would be 18

 

a mostly support hero pro player with 2000-3000-9000 and 7000 rating would be 2300

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Your all making this unneccisarily complicated, Its fairly easy to change the start system to a vote screen, Allows all players to vote on the setup for the game.

 

List of things that could be voted on,

 

Draft mode, blind or otherwise.

 

Auto balance teams yes or no, Splits teams as evenly as possible based on their career kdr

 

There's plenty more options that can be placed in here that have been thrown around the forums and on mumble as good ideas to implement but unsure on how to do it.

 

I really like this, inserting a vote screen after load before the hero selection screen.

Can allow 30-60 seconds or so for ppl to vote on options and take the top pick for each setting (very zealot frenzy esque)

 

Options:

Auto balance teams (Y/N)

Hero choice (Normal, Draft?, All Random)

(Draft may actually require more work to implement than a simple voting screen and thus may not be as feasible)

 

Other options could easily be added to allow people to mix up the game if they want.like:

Hero fight or traditional? (hero fight mode start at lvl 18 with like 15-20K duke it out first team to 50/100 kills wins, towers don't matter)

Add special abilities to towers? (aoe damage etc)

Spawn random powerups? (could have runes appear at other points on map or have other random buffs appear to pickup at various times)

Spawn random effects? (have destructible rocks or things like neutral psi storms or neutral creeps that roam the map attacking things appear at random points on map throughout game)

Allow mercenaries? (can use money to buy mercenaries to help defend base or augment your play)

Allow upgrades? (can opt to upgrade creep waves by buying more units, or researching upgrades for creep or towers)

Bonus objectives? (can have other ways to get team money besides just aeon and levi, like a randomly spawning watch tower you get money for holding for a certain period of time or the spawning of additional bosses)

 

Obviously these extra modes would not be taken into account when balancing, and would just be for fun (most of those are not really thought out anyways just went off top of head). Personally i think hero fight, mercenaries, and upgrades are most viable as the others would be way harder to make but I like the chaos that random effects and or powerups could cause if they were feasible

 

Gah wishing i was on the dev team to make this happen ;)

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I'm the best player, why is the system putting me with people that cause me to lose?

 

But no seriously, in a totally random queue (excluding premades), a good player will naturally win a slightly higher percentage of games over a large sample.

 

However, I do agree that games need to be less one-sided. I think the reason they are one-sided is because the general pub playerbase does not know how to lane when behind, and ends up feeding horribly after continuing to try and all-in their opponents after a death or too.

 

Coupled with the fact that everyone sucks at farming (the engine makes it hard to an extent except with carries and AoE casters), you get very lopsided games that snowball out of an early mineral advantage.

 

I suggest the following: Make subsequent kills give less money, and nerf early sustain.

 

These changes would make the following occur:

  • Ganking is encouraged to gain more minerals over farming the heroes in a single lane.
  • Comebacks are possible as mineral leads on the winning team become more manageable. Hence, winning teamfights becomes possible with superior tactics.
  • After getting a kill, most heroes won't be able to continue farming and pushing and be back to full when the enemy arrives again, making it possible to kill them.

That way you have to work more to maintain a lead. Good players don't have to rig the game to beat bad players. As always, though, the team that can outplay the other team should win, regardless of a mineral advantage.

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Dota 2 does this quite well by having crazy creep money drop, as well as early game kills give barely nothing aside from first blood.... This game gives alot for kills, so it promotes getting kills rather than farming, so everybody all ins to try and get a kill.

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Why not just use KDA as a basis for experience / skill?

 

Ratings and winloss are meaningless

 

A system could in theory auto balance and split teams based on whatever metric is decided to evaluate KDA and assign it to a point value

 

This would ensure that teams do not end up with too many "new"/"bad" players on one side or the other in any random pub match

 

With a k/d/a assist matchmaking, i would be forced go play with tards my whole life, because i have 17k/3k/18k, and that would not be fair for me, forcing me to premade...

 

And ive seen good ppl with negative ratios, idk why, and other morons with 10-1 ratio, but they are just noob killers who stay afk against decent ppl saying go ih if u are so pro

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