Thoughts on heavy mineral earning items at start??

[Gladiator]

I played with someone the other night that started out by getting saber, goggles, and LT for the added mineral bonus they give every 10 seconds. After doing a little math these items together cost 2425 minerals to purchanse. At a rate of 15 mins/ 10 seconds, that would take roughly 27 minutes to recoup the cost and break even essentially. with that being said, do you think this strategy is worth it to boost mineral earnings?

 

I tried to take into account other items that could be built from these such as HoM, superheated mantle, and spell buffer. Is there a hero that would use all 3 of these and form a solid build so the money wouldnt be wasted? Only one I could think of off the top of my head would be drake but found it hard to see him using HoM.... Anyway, just looking for thoughts from everyone as to whether this is worth it or not, thanks!

[Eliwan]

Well, you could just /sell/ the item. Then you recoup half the cost when you do so...

 

The only person I know of that does this is FinalEnd and he plays Micro, so ask him

[Allstar]

Lost Treasure builds to Spell buffer and Miner goggles contribute to superheated mantle so you don't exactly lose that money if you're building towards it anyways. As a tank it makes sense, the saber builds to Hand of Mengsk, so that one might just end up getting sold back unless the user wants the cool down reduction and weapon/movement speed. Makes for an interesting build to get them all I suppose, defer to Eliwan's man, FinalEnd, for testimony.

[Midknight]

I'd say it's worth it only if you're going to end up using them for components eventually. Maybe somewhat worth it if you're going for items that don't share components with the 3 income items. It's a little easier to conceptualize it if you look at one item at a time. Say, for example, you get a Leeching saber. That's 15% leech for 700 and you earn back 0.5 minerals per sec. It'd take 1400 seconds to break even; 23 minutes. That means that over 20 minutes into the game, you're finally earning a profit of 0.5 minerals/sec. Sure, you get 15% leech, but that's 47 minerals per percent of leech. By contrast, Glutton's Bite costs 41 minerals per percent of leech and gives an active ability that doubles the leech for a few seconds. So you have to hold on to Leeching Saber for at least 85 seconds before the money you earn back balances out the price per unit of base leech. Then, the longer you hold it, the more cost-effective leeching saber gets. Or, to put it another way, say you want some leech. You get a Zerg Symbiosis right off for 475. Then you spend 225 more for a leeching saber. Hold the leeching saber for 15'50" and you can sell it for 350 and it will have earned 475 in that time, netting you 825; enough for a Glutton's Bite. You spend 225 seconds (3'45") with 10% leech, then 15'50" with 15% leech then sell it and get a 20% leech for only a 700 mineral investment and 19 minutes 35 seconds. 19 minutes and 35 seconds to save yourself 125 minerals; about 15% of the price. Or, you wait 5 minutes 50 seconds with 10% leech and you'll have earned enough through passive 1 mineral/sec income to afford to upgrade it to Glutton's Bite.

 

If you're just looking to earn extra money and buy all 3 income items, your break-even point is 808.3 seconds, nearly 13.5 minutes, if you sell them afterwards. You've got to hold onto all of them for close to 13.5 minutes just to hit the break-even point where they pay for themselves if you sell them. Even then, ironically, if you purchase an item that involves the same base component (ie. Zerg Symbiosis in Leeching Saber), you end up further behind because you've got to purchase it once, upgrade it, sell the saber, then purchase another symbiosis to build into something different. If you're going to be buying items that don't involve the items used in these 3 items, then you may end up ahead of the game. If you're going to be upgrading them, you really have no choice. But if you're going to be going for other items that share the same components, you'd be better off just going straight for those items than detouring through the income trifecta.

[Rem]

unless your tassadar, buying multiple of them with tass is fairly viable, especially since his clone procs the income, and he can make decent use of items that build from them, which means hes starting to earn a profit at everyone elses break even point, whether its more viable to build into your other items first or intot he income gainers is a question for players better with tass than i am.

[Doom]

Buy it on Tychus. Ubber-late game hero that will probably utilitize at least 2, maybe all 3 as components. Although you can instead get a Lightning Rod and way more last hits to make up for money..... meh.

[residente]

Remember that those items also give you stats, and in early game 15% leech for 700, 5 hp and 1.5 mana regen for 925, and 280 hp for 800 is a good trade

 

those items have something else than the minerals, they make the lanin phase/early game much more easy for some heroes

[Banzaiguy]

Does timescale affect the rate of mineral gain for these items?

[Rem]

no it does not

[WhaleTits]

i don't see why it wouldn't.

[Rem]

invisible positive buff same as ihan I imagine, ihan stacks arent affected by time scale either

[FruitNinja]

I like to buy all 3 items on Tassadar so I can get fed without actually doing anything.

[SourDiesel]

I open with Pulse Regenerator -> Lost Treasure on a lot of intel heroes. The energy regen helps to reduce early dependence on energy pots and the health regen means you can withstand being the target of slow, steady targeting in the laning phase. Lost Treasure is also a great item to hold because it givese you the flexibility to easily adapt to strong casters on the other team with a quick upgrade to Spell Buffer for only 1.9K. If the spell buffer is never necessary, or someone else gets it, you continue collecting the income until you need the inventory slot. If you suddenly find yourself outgunned by enemy intel, you'll be glad you can make a quick transition to the most potent spell resist in the game.

 

I'll frequently go on to add goggles as a second item because the 250 health does wonders for early sustainability. Part of the decision making process here hinges on a feel for the game and whether it looks like it's going to go long or not. I play maar a lot and he can push a game to 40 minute minimum almost by himself. Sometimes, it's clear the game can be won early or that you'll lose if you don't get more fire power quickly, in that case I'll forego the goggles.

 

I think going all three is generally not a good idea. By the time you add the third item the game will likely be 12+ minutes in. The game has to be undecided at the 30 minute mark to break even and would really have to go 35+ with the outcome still up in the air to turn a profit big enough to justify foregoing a better early item. Tas would be the exception to this rule as he double procs and legitimately benefits from the other attributes on all three items.

[doxthefox]

1) Stack Gold per 10

2)Wait

3)Profit

4)????

5) Victory

 

In LoL, the argument is whether or not you can hold off long enough for the gp10's to be effective as some opt not to go straight for hp/damage items. In AoS the game is going to last a long time anyway so it's always cost effective right?

[Jaysi]

I think one or two is good on poor farming heroes if you replace your durans item with a gp item. That way your not trying to cover the cost of purchasing the item, but utilizing it because its good. Like Drake is good with Miners or Lost treasure if you start with them and even build well.

[BestPlayer]

It's shap. It always was. Only people doing it was NA baddies who didn't understand the game, and thought getting all 3 on Kerrigan made total sense.

 

One, like Saber on an AA hero/jungler, or goggles on any hero looking to be a little more tanky is fine with me, but getting all 3 is simply stupid beyond reason.

[doxthefox]

^ listen to everything this guy says and you'll be a pro aos player! Goes great on a resume too!

[Psyght]

it puts you way too far behind, 1 is good, 3 isnt always better.

[Legacy]

I used to have a pretty awesome build as tass which let me rofl stomp people using these items. I would go Money talent, spell damage talent, health talent, liferegen talent, energy, energyregen. For items i would go miner goggles, then instantly make my clone. with this you can solo jungle creeps lvl 1, take 2 before going into the lane, and you should be there the time the enemy waves are dieing. Then get lost treasure, leeching sabre, then stun baton. With stun baton, it gives you great early damage, and now aaing people is worth it. Then you go pyre, which lets you deal some extra damage as well as some helpful stats. Finally, you can get a bandits~23 mins in if you farmed well. Sell the leeching sabre, and get argus, then goggles and get a shrink ray, then finally lost treasure for a chilling artifact. If you go this skill order: w,e,w,e,w,r,w,e,e,stat,r,stat,stat,nothing,nothing,and so on till ult. Dont get your q, it slows your stun chance. The reason why u got argus is so u can deal additional stun baton damage, and pyre damage.

This build melts people, and you can get all ur items by ~35 mins if done correctly.